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Ideas for Yasuo Changes

Akali is SO HOT··3 votes·1,235 views

Base Stats -Old Health values are returned

Passive: Way of the Wanderer -Old Shield Value is returned -Shield duration now 1.5 seconds

Q: Steel Tempest -Remains the same

W: Windwall -Costs 50% of Yasuo's current flow. -Returns flow every time a non minion/monster projectile is consumed by the wall. The value at how much flow is returned is based on rank and how much flow is consumed when Yasuo uses windwall. If Yasuo uses windwall with 0 flow it returns 0 flow from projectile consumption. (The values won't be crazy high so he doesn't go from 0-100 flow instantly in teamfights with windwall alone) -Cooldown slightly increased

E: Sweeping Blade -Returns flow on use increasing with rank -Cooldown changed to: 2 / 1.5 / 1 / 0.5 / 0

Current stacking mechanic: MAGIC DAMAGE: 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 / 150 (+ 60% AP)

MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 / 225 (+ 60% AP)

Each cast increases the next dash's base damage by 25% for 5 seconds, up to 50% bonus damage.

New stacking mechanic: MAGIC DAMAGE: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 (+ 60% AP) Now can stack up to 6 times. Lasts for 3.5 seconds

Rank 1: 50% per stack for a max of 80 damage Rank 2: 75% per stack for a max of 137.5 damage Rank 3: 100% per stack for a max of 210 damage Rank 4: 125% per stack for a max of 297.5 damage Rank 5: 150% per stack for a max of 400 damage

The idea behind this is that pre nerf Yasuo could get a few stacks easily and then do a ton of burst damage to you with a very low rank E early on which was stupid. This way his E starts out with really low base damages and once he gets to that 6 stacks he is rewarded with a lot more damage with E. More risk involved but a greater reward.

Since he can get up to pretty high damage with it at max rank the stacking lasts for 1.5 seconds less to make it harder for him to retain the damage.

Numbers might be a little op or something but that would be the idea

R: Last Breath -Only works with true knockups (meaning he can't ult off of Trundle Pillar, Thresh Flay, Vayne Condemn, Dragon Knockback, etc.) -Higher Cooldown if he ults off of ally knockup -Bonus armor pen only applies to targets that are ulted by Yasuo -Bonus armor pen is increased if Yasuo ults off of his own knockup -Yasuo gains a higher shield value that persists for longer if he ults off of his own knockup (remember that he is granted maximum flow on cast) -Instantly kills Riven

Overview of the changes: What I am trying to do with these changes is the following:

  1. Make his early game not complete garbage anymore so he actually has winning matchups
  2. Discourage button mashing by making windwall cost flow but reward him if he uses it wisely. He also has no resource so this would somewhat help "restrict" him similar to mana users.
  3. The new E stacking mechanic involves more risk but higher reward to prevent the case with pre nerf Yasuo where he could get ezmode damage on you with a rank 1 or 2 E with no effort. The increased cooldown at earlier ranks also makes it so he is less irritating to play against during laning and prevents him from abusing the early damage too much again. However, he is rewarded later with a 0 second cooldown on it. Since he now needs to use flow to use windwall getting flow back from E would be a good way to make it so he isn't totally gimped by using it.
  4. Reward Yasuo for setting up his own plays and make his ult not stupid anymore.
  5. Riven sux :^)

Thoughts?

30 Comments

Hawleo2 votes

-Instantly kills Riven

wot

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Joking about lore.

But you have to consider, if Riven truly is the assassin of Yasuo's elder, for this to be balanced, her ultimate would also have to slay Yasuo.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

{quoted}

Joking about lore.

But you have to consider, if Riven truly is the assassin of Yasuo's elder, for this to be balanced, her ultimate would also have to slay Yasuo.

worth

Gunpoint1 votes

Except, Riven's ult is ranged cone while Yasuo's needs to be set up.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

And Yasuo has Wind Wall to block hers, while Riven has mobility to avoid getting hit by knockups.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Making anything cost Flow does not make sense.

Flow is the mechanic that governs his shield's cooldown, effectively. It would be like putting Fury costs on Shyvana's spells.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

{quoted}

Making anything cost Flow does not make sense.

Flow is the mechanic that governs his shield's cooldown, effectively. It would be like putting Fury costs on Shyvana's spells.

The idea is that Yasuo is rewarded for smart play instead of just spamming buttons. Instead of saying "Kek gonna rek you with windwall" now he says "alright I can give up some of my flow to sacrifice my shield but if I place it properly I can get a ton of flow back to get my shield back." He has no resource so this would force him to make better decisions instead of button mashing.

Edit: A big difference being is that abilities costing fury restricts Shyv from using her ult whereas Windwall costing flow does not restrict Yasuo whatsoever and rewards him for being smart

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Another difference is that costing Flow is, effectively, costing Yasuo's health.

Yasuo's defensive stats took hits specifically because of his Flow shield. Either the Flow cost of his W would be small enough that it may as well not cost anything, or the cost would be significant enough to be another cut in his effective health. Additionally, if he needed to use it after a fight started, and a stray bullet hits him, he's fucked.

And he has to play smart with Wind Wall, anyway. It's his only real defensive tool, it only works against ranged projectiles, and it has a long cooldown (and he does not build much, if any, CDR).

Skye reave1 votes

{quoted}

Another difference is that costing Flow is, effectively, costing Yasuo's health.

Yasuo's defensive stats took hits specifically because of his Flow shield. Either the Flow cost of his W would be small enough that it may as well not cost anything, or the cost would be significant enough to be another cut in his effective health. Additionally, if he needed to use it after a fight started, and a stray bullet hits him, he's fucked.

And he has to play smart with Wind Wall, anyway. It's his only real defensive tool, it only works against ranged projectiles, and it has a long cooldown (and he does not build much, if any, CDR).

glad someone mentioned that

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

{quoted}

Another difference is that costing Flow is, effectively, costing Yasuo's health.

Yasuo's defensive stats took hits specifically because of his Flow shield. Either the Flow cost of his W would be small enough that it may as well not cost anything, or the cost would be significant enough to be another cut in his effective health. Additionally, if he needed to use it after a fight started, and a stray bullet hits him, he's fucked.

And he has to play smart with Wind Wall, anyway. It's his only real defensive tool, it only works against ranged projectiles, and it has a long cooldown (and he does not build much, if any, CDR).

The thing is though that Yasuo doesn't have any restrictions because he is resourceless meaning he can just spam everything forever and not have to worry. Now instead of getting a free windwall to block projectiles he needs to use it more wisely than just whenever. In addition he would now have 2 ways to get flow back. It makes it so his windwall is weaker when not used well and stronger when used very well. Just imagine being able to possibly get 2 shields because of a properly placed windwall in a teamfight. It takes power away from windwall and allows for buffs in other areas.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is though that Yasuo doesn't have any restrictions because he is resourceless meaning he can just spam everything forever and not have to worry.

That's the general gist of Manaless champions. Katarina, Garen, Rumble, Kennen, Akali, Zed, Renekton, Shyvana, whichever Manaless champion you decide to examine, their explicit advantage is being much more free to spam their spells in the early-game than Mana champions.

It's not an unintended side effect. It's exactly how they were designed.

Now instead of getting a free windwall to block projectiles he needs to use it more wisely than just whenever. In addition he would now have 2 ways to get flow back. It makes it so his windwall is weaker when not used well and stronger when used very well.

  1. He already gains Flow from his E and R, so I don't see why he needs a fourth method.
  2. Wind Wall is already weak when used poorly, strong when used properly.

Just imagine being able to possibly get 2 shields because of a properly placed windwall in a teamfight. It takes power away from windwall and allows for buffs in other areas.

He can already get 2 shields per fight because of his R. And if he's gaining shields, he's not using Wind Wall unless it doesn't cost Flow.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Remove Yasuo's double crit and change his wind wall into something else that isn't oppressive versus ranged and useless versus melee.

Suddenly Yasuo isn't cancer.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

{quoted}

Remove Yasuo's double crit and change his wind wall into something else that isn't oppressive versus ranged and useless versus melee.

Suddenly Yasuo isn't cancer.

That would make him useless

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Something nobody ever notices about Yasuo's doubled Crit Chance is that damage reduction factor. Or, when they do notice it, they misunderstand it. It's not -10% Crit Damage, it's -10% damage dealt by crits.

The difference is that Crit Damage is a stat (normally 200%, becomes 250% with Infinity Edge, plus there are Crit Damage runes for the people who have no idea how worthless they are), while the damage dealt by the crits is the actual number that shows up when you deal damage.

This is a normal critical hit. 100 * 2.0 = 200 damage This is a Yasuo critical hit. (100 * 2.0) * 0.9 = 180 damage

Infinity Edge is also reduced in effectiveness; Yasuo with IE deals 225% Crit Damage instead of 250%.

"That's not much damage."

Actually, it's a lot of damage lost. I did the math, and Yasuo deals approximately the same DPS as Tryndamere or Yi with 3 items.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

{quoted}

Something nobody ever notices about Yasuo's doubled Crit Chance is that damage reduction factor. Or, when they do notice it, they misunderstand it. It's not -10% Crit Damage, it's -10% damage dealt by crits.

The difference is that Crit Damage is a stat (normally 200%, becomes 250% with Infinity Edge, plus there are Crit Damage runes for the people who have no idea how worthless they are), while the damage dealt by the crits is the actual number that shows up when you deal damage.

This is a normal critical hit. 100 * 2.0 = 200 damage This is a Yasuo critical hit. (100 * 2.0) * 0.9 = 180 damage

Infinity Edge is also reduced in effectiveness; Yasuo with IE deals 225% Crit Damage instead of 250%.

"That's not much damage."

Actually, it's a lot of damage lost. I did the math, and Yasuo deals approximately the same DPS as Tryndamere or Yi with 3 items.

However, unlike Yi or Tryndamere, Yasuo has armor shred in his ult (did you factor that in) that essentially invalidates building armor against him, hard CC that can't be reduced in duration by Tenacity, a dash with essentially zero cooldown so long as there's something to dash to, and a wind wall that blocks any and all projectiles.

Unless you're Azir or a melee champion, you're going to have a bad time laning against a Yasuo, and even if you're a melee champ, that power spike when Yasuo completes his IE is insane.

His combo isn't super difficult to land either, because he can use his Q to knockup easily during his dash (as it changes from a skillshot to a PBAoE effect) and when combined with his ult, can be incredibly game-changing in a teamfight in addition to his binary lane presence (toxic vs range, weak vs melee).

Yi and Tryndamere, on the other hand, are basically "splitpush at all costs" champions that can duel well, but get basically deleted in a teamfight.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Yi has a free % AD steroid, true damage scaled on his AD, untargetability, a self-heal that has 70% DR attached, immunity to slows and cooldown-refreshing mechanics.

Tryndamere has AD reduction, a gap closer with CD reduction, an AD steroid that gets stronger at lower HP, and the ability to not die for 5 seconds.

All three of them have kits with powerful abilities; listing them doesn't mean a whole lot.

And while I had not done the math involving Yasuo's Armor Pen, it only affects Bonus Armor. Every champion's level 18 base Armor ranges from 66.5-96.7; at that point, each individual point of Armor is worth less than 0.4% damage reduction. It would take a significant amount of bonus Armor for that difference in DR to actually give Yasuo an edge, and there's also Yi's true damage to take into account.

To actually account for Yasuo's Armor Pen steroid, I'd need a static target with a set amount of base and bonus armor. Unfortunately, when debating this sort of thing, I'm the only person who ever deals in the numbers, so I can't ever get anyone to give me a solid base to complete the math.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

{quoted}

Yi has a free % AD steroid, true damage scaled on his AD, untargetability, a self-heal that has 70% DR attached, immunity to slows and cooldown-refreshing mechanics.

Tryndamere has AD reduction, a gap closer with CD reduction, an AD steroid that gets stronger at lower HP, and the ability to not die for 5 seconds.

All three of them have kits with powerful abilities; listing them doesn't mean a whole lot.

And while I had not done the math involving Yasuo's Armor Pen, it only affects Bonus Armor. Every champion's level 18 base Armor ranges from 66.5-96.7; at that point, each individual point of Armor is worth less than 0.4% damage reduction. It would take a significant amount of bonus Armor for that difference in DR to actually give Yasuo an edge, and there's also Yi's true damage to take into account.

To actually account for Yasuo's Armor Pen steroid, I'd need a static target with a set amount of base and bonus armor. Unfortunately, when debating this sort of thing, I'm the only person who ever deals in the numbers, so I can't ever get anyone to give me a solid base to complete the math.

Level 18 Jarvan with Randuins and Tabi for armor

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Alright, I suppose that will do. I can leave Runes and Masteries off the table. I'm going to assume that Yi, Yasuo and Tryndamere are all level 18 as well, for the sake of simplicity.

Okay, so at level 18, Jarvan's Health is 2101, Armor is 85.2, and Randuin's+Tabi provide an additional 500 HP and 95 Armor. The effective physical DR is 64.3%; Ninja Tabi's passive makes it effectively 67.9% resistance to physical attacks. His physical EHP is 7288-8089, depending on how much damage is dealt by basic attacks.

This was the build I was given the last time I did the math: item 3087 item 3031 item 3074 These items grant +155 AD, +40% AS, +40% Crit Chance, +50% Crit Damage, +6% MS and the Shiv shock proc.

Without activated steroids, factored over 20 seconds for lower number fluctuation;

Master Yi hits 292.6 AD, 1.181 AS, 40% Crit Chance, and his crits deal 731.5 damage. After his first 3 attacks, the next attack (and every 3 after that) will double-strike, with the second strike dealing half damage. His average DPS is 640; it would take him 12.6 seconds to kill Jarvan just attacking him.

Tryndamere hits 296-331 AD, 1.268 AS, 40-75% Crit Chance, and his crits deal 740-827.5 damage. His average DPS is 606.8-902; it would take him 9-13.3 seconds to auto Jarvan to death.

Yasuo hits 265 AD, 1.279 AS, 80% Crit Chance, and his crits deal 596.25 damage. His average DPS is 677.9; it would take him 11.9 seconds to slap Jarvan to the fountain.

Note: Yes, I know, right now, it shows Yasuo beating Yi and potentially beating Tryndamere, but I haven't accounted for two sets of factors. First would be Yi's and Yasuo's steroids, and second would be 4th and 5th items.

When Yi's E and R are active, he gains 30+20% of his total AD as True Damage on-hit, and he gains +80% AS.

His AS jumps to 1.725, and each basic attack (including the double-strikes) deals +88.5 true damage. Using the same, previous DPS factoring, he deals 943.6 without accounting for the True damage. The true damage is worth as much as 248 compared to his effective HP (88.5 HP from physical damage would require 248 potential damage for the same result), and Yi can land 9 attacks (+2 double strikes) in 5 seconds, increasing his effective DPS to 1489.2. It now takes Yi 5.4 seconds to shred Jarvan.

When Yasuo's R is active, he gains 50% Bonus Armor penetration. Jarvan has 95 bonus Armor, so post-ult would reduce it to 47.5, bringing his total to 132.7 Armor. After Ninja Tabi's reduction, Jarvan's %DR changes from 57% to 61.3%; his physical EHP against Yasuo is 6053-6737, meaning Yasuo's DPS now takes 9.9 seconds to beat Jarvan.

No, I didn't forget Yasuo's Q. Now, with this much AS, Yasuo's Q has a cooldown of 1.81 seconds, and increases his DPS by 344.4. It's treated as a basic attack, so it takes him 6.6 seconds, assuming perfect interrupt timing.

All factors considered, slowest to fastest goes Tryndamere, Yasuo, Yi. And, really, that makes sense. Yi has the strongest steroids, and Tryndamere has no anti-tank capacity innate to his kit. But don't forget, that's at 3 items, not 5 items. Yasuo's DPS reduction due to his passive weakening Crits makes anything that increases his DPS stronger for Yi/Tryndamere's DPS.

Assuming the target builds much more bonus Armor, Yasuo could potentially out-DPS Yi. Meanwhile, in fights against squishier targets, no dice.

Strident1 votes

I general like Yasuo except for him not getting to 100% crit due to IE nerf and his Windwall, so I'd say the Windwall mechanic should be looked at by making it absorb a maximum number of projectiles or damage and then slightly lowering it's cooldown while giving him more survivability options in the mid game.

Popstar Ahri1 votes

its cool

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

[{quoted}](name=OnIy Ahri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BjkBeZFc,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-02-10T02:37:17.717+0000)

its cool

hi

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

updated a little bit

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

updated

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

b

Skye reave1 votes

his shield is already kinda weak. Know you said it should be boosted but not sure how much that would help as I have not experienced it in action. Interesting ideas floating around but some seem to sound like get rid of this and that because we don't like it.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

{quoted}

his shield is already kinda weak. Know you said it should be boosted but not sure how much that would help as I have not experienced it in action. Interesting ideas floating around but some seem to sound like get rid of this and that because we don't like it.

His old shield was probably good the way it was. The nerfs to it were very unnecessary

Skye reave1 votes

{quoted}

His old shield was probably good the way it was. The nerfs to it were very unnecessary

well my opinion on the shield was that it was fine. the real problem was that he could gain it back from dashing four times lvl 18 which is fcked up but that was taken care of. But they wouldn't stop nerfing and rather than address areas that people really hated they just weakened him as a whole. And people still hate him which makes me sad

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

{quoted}

well my opinion on the shield was that it was fine. the real problem was that he could gain it back from dashing four times lvl 18 which is fcked up but that was taken care of. But they wouldn't stop nerfing and rather than address areas that people really hated they just weakened him as a whole. And people still hate him which makes me sad

Yeah. I would like to see the flow returned on E dashing because I thought it was a cool concept. Obviously the values wouldn't be ridiculously high so he could get 0 to 100 in 3 minion dashes but since his wall costs flow now it would make up for it when he uses it.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

-Instantly kills Riven

this change is good

Skye reave1 votes

Despite the interesting not that this brings up, as mentioned above, riot did intend for his abilities to be no-cost. Im not sure if they would really consider a change like that. Thats probably why they made the cooldown as long as it is.

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