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Itemization niches that are lacking or missing for S7

Commando Yi··10 votes·1,717 views

It's nice to see assassins and supports getting an abundance of more items on the PBE but riot should take the preseason as an opportunity to create more items that fill in large gaps that haven't been filled in a long time.

Armor + AD

There will be 3 different ways to build MR + AD (Edge of Night, Maw, Scimitar) in season 7 but there has been zero Armor + AD options ever since Atma's Impaler was removed from the game. There really needs to be an anti physical damage equivalent to Edge of Night, Maw and Scimitar.

AD Zhonya's

When Zed, Talon or Rengar come to kill you, your options depend on who you are. If you are an AP champion you build Zhonyas and you can survive momentary burst damage. If you are an AD champion there is no equivalent and there should be some AD + armor item that fills this niche.

MR + HP

For Armor + HP options we have Randuins, Deadmans Plate, Sunfire Cape, Knights Vow, Ohm Wrecker. With the loss of Locket and Banners Command as MR + HP items - not that they were particularly good ones - the only choices for MR + HP are Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil. This limits your options against a heavy magic damage composition as it's virtually impossible to get high MR while it's easy to get 500 Armor.

Attack Speed + AD

For CDR + AD we have 6 choices in Deaths Dance, Essence Reaver, Black Cleaver, Ghostblade, Maw. For Move speed + AD we have Ghostblade, Duskblade, Edge of Night, For Attack Speed + AD we have Botrk (overpriced at the moment) and that's pretty much it. Rageblade is a useless mess. We really need more items to fill this niche, perhaps bring back the old black cleaver (AS + AD + Armor shred).

Attack Speed + On Hit + Defensive

Right now we have wits end which is a decentpick up on Kogmaw and Warwick and no one else. We really need a physical on hit attack speed item that steals armor. Something like 40%AS, 42 on hit physical damage, and basic attacks steal 10 armor per attack.

AD + AP

For Armor + MR we have ZZ'Rot, Gaurdian Angel, Locket, Banner of Command For AD + AP we have Gunblade, that's it, that is the only item for Hybrid champions to build - Rageblade is a mess and only Kayle is able to make use of it. We really need more options here. Would be nice to have the option to build something besides Gunblade every game on hybrid champs.

Armor QSS

When Malzahar Ults you, you have the option of an item like QSS or Scimitar to help you out. When Riven or Irelia stun you, you have the choice of dying, hoping your ally uses cruicible on you on time, or you need to build an MR item to help you survive against physical damage which is not an ideal scenarior. There should be an Armor QSS equivalent that serves a different niche - perhaps it could be the Armor + AD item I mentioned early on.

Feel free to add any more item niches you think are missing or lacking

29 Comments

Ralanr8 votes

I don't really want to see ADCs build armor and still get AD from it. That will only make them harder to kill.

50000000000000002 votes

Fuck iceborn Ezreal

Kaioko2 votes

I'm not going to go through your whole list but there's a good reason why those types of items don't exist in mass as it would create a balancing mess.

ADCs don't get a Zhonya like item because fact of the matter they need to be weak to being bursted down. I love my Jinx but even I realize how ridiculous it would be if I no longer had to fear a zed, leblanc, fizz etc in a team fight.

MR + HP - This cannot happen. Mages don't have the consistent damage for the most part that AD and others do. They already get countered severely by several items that do give sizable MR and even some HP (like banshee's) and Visage. Having an item that could be build on even the damage dealing targets would render mages useless.

AD + AP - could be possible but just remember how easily Akali, Kayle and Jax can get out of hand with those items.

Commando Yi2 votes

{quoted}

I'm not going to go through your whole list but there's a good reason why those types of items don't exist in mass as it would create a balancing mess.

ADCs don't get a Zhonya like item because fact of the matter they need to be weak to being bursted down. I love my Jinx but even I realize how ridiculous it would be if I no longer had to fear a zed, leblanc, fizz etc in a team fight.

MR + HP - This cannot happen. Mages don't have the consistent damage for the most part that AD and others do. They already get countered severely by several items that do give sizable MR and even some HP (like banshee's) and Visage. Having an item that could be build on even the damage dealing targets would render mages useless.

AD + AP - could be possible but just remember how easily Akali, Kayle and Jax can get out of hand with those items.

on the mr + hp part, mages 100-0 you if you're squishy or they kill you in two rotations of spells if you aren't squishy

this wouldn't be for damage dealers (i hope you're not building visage + bveil on adc) but rather the tanks, currently malphite and rammus are plenty durable vs full ad team comps but galio is nowhere near as strong vs full ap team comps due to a lack of hp+mr itemization (i have tried it, void staff is too damn strong)

Kaioko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Commando Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BbkqZFyL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-10-19T14:54:03.064+0000)

on the mr + hp part, mages 100-0 you if you're squishy or they kill you in two rotations of spells if you aren't squishy

this wouldn't be for damage dealers (i hope you're not building visage + bveil on adc) but rather the tanks, currently malphite and rammus are plenty durable vs full ad team comps but galio is nowhere near as strong vs full ap team comps due to a lack of hp+mr itemization (i have tried it, void staff is too damn strong)

Mages definitely cannot even two round you if you're building a tank with magic resist items. My 850 AP Leblanc could do anything against the Voli with visage, banshee, warmog to just name one example.

Referencing Galio doesn't really work either. He needs a rework. It's like saying Urgot is a bad marksman therefore marksman items need buffs.

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Don't forget about hybrid Kat!

Craktite2 votes

You forgot AP + armor items !

Requiemsfire1 votes

item 3157 item 3050

GULAG 4 U2 votes

No ad Hourglass please. They are limiting the oneshot patterns of assassins and making it clear how you avoid them dealing damage to you, ad hourglass isn't needed.

Also crucible? This isn't vainglory m9

Silverjust1 votes

how about the mirage blade from bilgewater brawlers? long cooldown item to dash a short distance for trying to escape from an assasin. not the best AD stats and no guaranteed escape.

What do you think?

GULAG 4 U2 votes

To be honest I don't know about Mirageblade, it's def an interesting item because it provides crit with lifesteal.

CritMedic1 votes

The only thing i really agree is the lack of armor on ADC itemization. You only really have iceborn and ezreal is the only one that uses it. With armour pen getting sooper buffed adc's are going to be practically nonexistent in season 7 if they dont get any good armor items.

Sasogwa4 votes

{quoted}

The only thing i really agree is the lack of armor on ADC itemization. You only really have iceborn and ezreal is the only one that uses it. With armour pen getting sooper buffed adc's are going to be practically nonexistent in season 7 if they dont get any good armor items.

AHAHAH no. ADC's are not going to be removed from the throne they have in botlane allowing them to dominate for the 5 last seasons. Supports are even getting an insanely strong item to pair with them and absorb damage in %, while healing in % of the damage they deal (Knight's vow). Imo, the assassin rework will not even threaten ADC's and we'll see a hypercarry+support tanks meta.

Raxistaicho1 votes

Nah, adcs weren't that strong in Season 5, really.

the weeaboo1 votes

{quoted}

The only thing i really agree is the lack of armor on ADC itemization. You only really have iceborn and ezreal is the only one that uses it. With armour pen getting sooper buffed adc's are going to be practically nonexistent in season 7 if they dont get any good armor items.

I'd like more variety in critical items. A Lifesteal critical would be nice

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Here's a good one

Blightscourge

item 1053 + item 1018 + item 1037 +600g = 3300g

30% Crit Chance

50 AD

Unique Passive- Exsanguination: Steal 25 (+ 25% bonus AD) Health over 3s from your target on Critical Strikes

Unique Passive: +15% additional Lifesteal and Critical Damage on targets affected by Exsanguination.

Maybe overbudgeted...? I think the passives are worth more than 250 gold.

the weeaboo1 votes

{quoted}

Here's a good one

Blightscourge

item 1053 + item 1018 + item 1037 +600g = 3300g

30% Crit Chance

50 AD

Unique Passive- Exsanguination: Steal 25 (+ 25% bonus AD) Health over 3s from your target on Critical Strikes

Unique Passive: +15% additional Lifesteal and Critical Damage on targets affected by Exsanguination.

Maybe overbudgeted...? I think the passives are worth more than 250 gold.

I was thinking something like this:

Souldrainer's Flail

item 1053 item 3123 item 1018 + 1500g (3900g)

  • 50 Attack Damage
  • 10% Lifesteal
  • 30% Critical Strike Chance

UNIQUE Passive - Vampiric Blows: Critical Strikes grant you a stack of Drain. Drain grants you an additional 3% lifesteal for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.

UNIQUE Passive - Deep Cuts: Critical Strikes apply Grevious Wounds onto an opponent for 3 seconds

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Definitely a strong item, kind of costly. Me gusta. Seems like something Twitch/Jinx could use really well.

This item thing is fun, I feel like a thread is in order.

Sooooooon

the weeaboo1 votes

{quoted}

Definitely a strong item, kind of costly. Me gusta. Seems like something Twitch/Jinx could use really well.

This item thing is fun, I feel like a thread is in order.

Sooooooon

I intentionally made it expensive because of the slot efficiency and the amount of stats it gives you. It would be pretty disgusting in the late game to be honest.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

WHOAWHOAWHOA! Hold the phone. item 3091 is one of my core items on Shyvana

Other than that. Mostly agree with all of this.

DeathBurst1 votes

So, this is only the short version, but hit me up if you want to discuss more about some points:

  • Armor+AD: would be broken on most ADCs.
  • MR+HP: hum, what? Spirit and Banshee, the two core MR items both have some HP too. That's largely enough, especially since Magic damage tends to be much more burst-y but much less sustained than Physical.
  • AS+AD: there are two reasons to want these stats together: being an aa-based fighter with on-hits, or an ADC. Both have good options, so they could like an item with AS+AD, but they don't need one.
  • AS+on-hit+Armor steal: that seems a bit too specific, and "Wit's End exists" is not a compelling argument ---especially when you said just before that it's only used by 2 champs. Why would you want that? Also, potentially broken to steal Armor on an item that could be used by most aa-based champs: aa still deal predominantly Physical damage.
  • Hybrid attack: there is an argument that hybrid champs shouldn't get items just for them, unless those would completely thwart their balance. And the argument about "we have hybrid defense" doesn't stand: you buy defense against 5 champs, so of course 5 champs together will have hybrid damage most of the time. But you buy attack for YOU, not the 5 champs in your team. The situation isn't symmetrical about Defense vs Offense.
  • Armor QSS / AD Zhonya (and you could have also mentioned: AP Scimitar, AP Hexdrinker, MR Hexdrinker, etc.): the point is, itemization doesn't need to be perfectly symmetrical accross the AD/AP and Armor/MR lines. Zhonya is good against Zed, but even against a Zed, an ADC still doesn't want to stay immobile for 2s where he can't reposition and/or auto-attack. On the other side, Mages love Zhonya because it's just the little time they need to get their CD back and output one more spell rotation, but cleansing one CC without protection against damage (what QSS does) won't let them survive long enough. You can find a few cases where someone would like an AD Zhonya/AP QSS, but they are rare and you can play around them.
Rebonack1 votes

For an armor OnHit item, I think I can do you one better than an armor stealer.

item 1042 item 1043 item 3082 Faebane Grants 40 attack speed, armor, OnHit magic damage AND- Cold Steel: Your basic attacks steal 15% of the target's Base Attack Speed for four seconds. Attack speed can be stolen from multiple targets, but you will only gain the highest value.

Commando Yi1 votes

{quoted}

For an armor OnHit item, I think I can do you one better than an armor stealer.

item 1042 item 1043 item 3082 Faebane Grants 40 attack speed, armor, OnHit magic damage AND- Cold Steel: Your basic attacks steal 15% of the target's Base Attack Speed for four seconds. Attack speed can be stolen from multiple targets, but you will only gain the highest value.

i really like this one

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Commando Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BbkqZFyL,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-10-19T17:30:59.209+0000)

i really like this one

I've been pitching this item since...

Season 3, I think?

Whenever Wit's End gained resist stealing.

I'll add that it needs a third representative for HP, good ol' Ionic Spark.

item 1043 item 1028 item 1011 Grants IAS, HP, OnHit magic damage, AND UNIQUE passive: Your basic attacks release a chain lightning that applies OnHit effects on up to (number) nearby targets.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Be careful about an AD and Armor item. It could be easily abuseable by ADCs.

Raxistaicho1 votes

Armor + AD

Too snowbally. Due to the nature of basic attacks, whoever gets this item first, provided both champs can run it, gets a HUGE advantage over the other.

The reason AP + Magic Resist items are acceptable is because skills can be outplayed much more easily than attacks.

AD Zhonya's

To be fair, there's no AP QSS.

MR + HP

For Armor + HP options we have Randuins, Deadmans Plate, Sunfire Cape, Knights Vow, Ohm Wrecker. With the loss of Locket and Banners Command as MR + HP items - not that they were particularly good ones - the only choices for MR + HP are Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil. This limits your options against a heavy magic damage composition as it's virtually impossible to get high MR while it's easy to get 500 Armor.

Magic Resist, due to the nature of the way ap damage tends to work (skills and cooldowns) CANNOT be as strong as armor. That's just the bottom line. Raw health is much more effective against magic damage than it is against armor, which is why you don't see many MR + HP items.

And the two we have, Banshee's and Visage, are both VERY good items.

Attack Speed + AD

The three basic attack stats, crit chance, AD, and AS, scale too intricately with each other to risk throwing off the balance by allowing more stat combinations. Particularly, AD and AS together scale the most directly (Crit Chance needs raw AD to be worth it which is why Crit + AS can exist, and it needs attack speed to up the rate at which you trigger it, which is why Crit + AD can exist. AD doesn't necessarily NEED crit chance to be effective)

Attack Speed + On Hit + Defensive

Basically the same philosophy as why there's no AD + Armor items.

AD + AP

There's not that many hybrid champs to begin with, and they're hard to balance for a reason.

Armor QSS

Spellshields and self-cleanses are typically anti-mage and tank items, and those two classes do largely magic damage.

For the records, having a QSS will reduce the damage of Irelia's E :p

Feel free to add any more item niches you think are missing or lacking

Yeah, we need an AP/Armor item that gives mages a way of actually fighting back against assassins and adcs, not just hiding and hoping something saves them.

SwiftKitten881 votes

.... i thought this thread was going to be decent.. but its not...

right now AD champs have THREE AD + MR items ALL with passive AND actives all of which can be used togther and none of which overlap...

while ap + armor has item 3157 ... and thats it...

resumed1 votes

a tank support item with cdr (after these changes go thru)

The Deckowner1 votes

Armor+AD item is way too broken.

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