We,The Community, Are Primarily The Ones Responsible For The Current State Of The Game, Not Riot.

ArnoldSchwarzens··43 votes·4,475 views

So I just watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUSWqNK3Z-A&t=109s

He makes good points throughout the video but what really shocked me is what he said in the beginning of it. That we as a community, including myself, were complaining on reddit, the boards and other social media on how the Meta is "boring", how "the leads you get mean nothing", how "Riot is preventing snowballing."

Remember, this is not even too long ago, this is mid 2k16. Riot made changes that WE wanted to happen and that led to this Meta and Riot basically just did what we demanded of them. I did further research and it's not just this video, this topic was all over the Internet back then. Riot made changes accordingly and now we have the shitfest that is the game today.

I think you can trace this kind of thing happening to way back, we asking Riot to do something then complain about it later on and by doing that basically dictating how the next patch will go in some kind of endless cycle of new OP things and Meta shifts to moan about.

64 Comments

ChargeItDownMid22 votes

[deleted]

50000000000000003 votes

Didn't they remove soloqueue and add dynamic queue because of requests on making ranked teambuilder?

While dynamic queue sucked, I don't think it's fair to say Riot does whatever they want regardless of what players want. Players did ask for a feature, and they tried to deliver it. They just made wrong sacrifices.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

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MrDeeBee1 votes

Again I agree with MAGEWICK

GayFluffyUnicorn6 votes

Players asked for SOLO Q since s2. We got dynamicQ 4 years later. Now we are back at DuoQ with position selection making it even easier to abuse the system. Yeah riot delivered what was promised lul.

Snowman Arc1 votes

I don't think dynamic queue really led the game to its current situation. The gameplay is still the same, the only difference is that players do not belong in the division they currently are. That's the only real problem of dynamic queue and it happened in such a noticeable effect, because you could queue up with multiple people and get boosted to some elo.

The thing is that this was ALWAYS HAPPENING. People were ALWAYS getting boosted. People would buy accounts to show off some diamond border, they would lend accounts to friends to boost them, or they would duoQ for the same reason. Boosting was ALWAYS there and it was always noticeable to some extent. People only bitched about it now, for certain reasons, most of which do not even apply to most.

Most pro players complained because the queue timers got way too long, also mainly because of the position selection. This doesn't apply to lower divisions though, since the queue timers there weren't as long. Yet bronzies complained because "the pros said so".

Boosted players only got so much noticed after dynamic Q, because it was faster to boost 3-4 people at a time than a maximum of two. Therefore, a lot of bronzies got to silver, silvers to gold etc, and there is this big clusterfk right now since the reset of ranked division, that people actually bitch about it NOW. When dynamic Q was being discussed, I for one enjoyed the concept of being able to play ranked games with my friends, not because I want to be boosted or anything, but because I don't want to play with random strangers, who most of the time flame, feed, troll and in general make the gaming experience bad. I was really excited for season 6, because of dynamic queue and the position selection, and because of it, I was able to enjoy the game so much more, since most trolls were eliminated. And when I say trolls, I don't only mean people who afk or feed, but even the basic concept of blind pick, where people instalock whatever they want and fuck up an entire game.

Dynamic queue to me was a good addition to the game. The real problem is how the ranking system works. You win a game? You get points. You lose? You lose points. And that doesn't say anything about your ACTUAL SKILL in the game. I recently played some games vs high plat- mid diamond, when I usually play against and stomp silver / gold, and because I didn't expect that kind of opposition, I fed my ass off. I went like 0/5 Irelia vs Poppy. We still won that game. Did I deserve to win that game? Nope. Yet, I still received LP, because I got my ass carried.

Then, next game, I lose a game with Shen where I'm 7/0/6 and I've gotten bottom lane so far ahead, yet I lose the game, because my "so far ahead" Quinn ADC decided it's cool to go 1v5 the team for the rest of the game. Did I deserve to lose that game? Nope. Yet, I still lost LP.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

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Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, you can't deny that most people are sheep and blindly follow what's trending. Every bitched about soloQ being ditched for dynamicQ and most people followed it just because. Supporters of dynamicQ never said anything, because they were getting what they wanted, therefore the only people voicing their opinions are the ones who supported soloQ.

At the start of this season, where both soloQ and dynamicQ are up, people treat dynamic as garbage and soloQ as the real one. And guess what, I don't understand why. How much different is solo from dynamic? If anything, the only difference, apart from 5man premades, is that you can be matched with a party of 3 maximum. Otherwise, it will be a team of soloQ. People just made the whole point of "garbage dynamic, only soloQ matters", and people blindly followed, without really knowing why, but just because that's what they were told.

I find the current dynamic Q really important, just as important as soloQ. I'm G5 solo and G3 dynamic right now.

Anags1 votes

Laning phase is only a portion of the game. You can stomp laning phase and then throw just because you don't team fight well or use the lead effectively.

You can't base base rank on game stats. Winning is what matters. Hell I've had games many times where the team with less kills won the game.

I've gone 0/0/0 in top before with high cs and just split pushe'd to base causing enough pressure that my team won. The matchmaking is fine.

But if someone makes a mistake or has a bad game the salty players in this game scream boosted because they are idiots.

MrDeeBee1 votes

Lmao I'm reading this and saying to myself " i ****in love League!!!!!

MrDeeBee1 votes

I agree with MageWick

Keevalroy10 votes

Oh for fuck's sake...no.

While I'll consent that there are times when the community has been wrong, when Riot responded to specific complaints, they have done so with careless negligence, and overwhelming ignorance when it came to criticism about said changes.

Riot are like contractors helping us do some home renovations. We said we wanted some air flow through the living room, and wanted an opening on the back wall for a window. Riot responded with a wrecking ball taking out the back wall, throwing a window pane on the ground and congratulating each other. When we rightfully freaked out about them being extreme with this, they got confused, annoyed because this was apparently what we wanted, reminded us that they know better, and walked away plugging their ears.

(Examples: Juggernauts, Sej nerfs, Eve nerfs, "compensation" for removed items, wanting games shorter than one hour, etc.)

Then there are times when we do need extreme tactics like hundreds of rats suddenly moving in and ruining the place. So we called Riot Pest Control to take care of them, they capture half of them, and release them in the backyard and walked away with a "job well done" smile on their faces.

(Examples: Lee / Zed / Yasuo / early Kalista, Fiora, GP "nerfs," 5 AD LUL, 3 AD LUL, slightly trimming Ekko's overloaded kit, etc.

And now we have the current state of our house where they randomly show up with a demolition crew, and fuck up random rooms and dig giant holes in our yard simply because they felt like it. No, that's literally what it is - they felt like it, so they did it. We tried to tell them to stop, we tried compromising, we tried to beg them to show some rational fucking thoughts like they used to years back, but they insist that we want our house to be destroyed, and that we do in alternative fact like these changes.

(Examples: Changing their prerogative to aim toward a "global sport that lasts generations" over the game itself, the refusal to touch their broken reworks at the end of season 5 for the sake of the pro scene - which was fucked up anyway I might add, the entirety of season 6, the random jungle changes because Fearless is an idiot and doesn't know how to jungle, the lethality changes which screwed over assassins and made ranged champs stronger, DYNAMIC QUEUE, gross favoritism and bullshit hypocritical logic defending themselves, and of course, the ever-growing evidence of the "I'm right, you're wrong, deal with it. It's our game, we do what we want!" attitude that Blizzard and EA have adopted.)

Spârky7 votes

Upvoted because I completely agree with this. Everyone complains about how riot never listens to the community but i think they finally listened to the community too much which caused this meta.

Azteryz3 votes

"Riot, the hero league deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So the community will bitch. Because riot can take it. Because they're not our hero. they're a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A........ pretty good company tbh." - Lt. James manbat

seriously tho this is pretty sad from the truth it screams :/

Daen2 votes

It's less about how often a developer listens to the community, more which feedback they decide to act on. The average player is not an expert in game design, it's the dev's job to figure out which suggestions are good for the game and implement those, but not the ones that aren't.

Moetaro7 votes

If I complain about the food lacking salt, and the chef puts half a ton of salt on it... that's NOT my fault, sorry, it's chef's fault.

Smitty Manjensen7 votes

This is absolutely Riot's fault. They wanted to make games shorter and more exciting for their precious LCS and pro play, so they can get more revenue from tickets and streams, but the only thing it did was ruin regular play.

Unironic SJW1 votes

Because the community ASKED for those changes.

dark100dark1006 votes

Which community? I never asked any of these. Calling 1-2 loud voices as community is stupid.

Lauchmelder4 votes

The majority of the people that voiced their opinion cried about "QQ 45 minute LCS matches" and the ones that were ok with the gametime kept silent for the biggest part.

The only ones that should shut up completely are the ones that wanted shorter games and now complain about the current state of the game.

Smitty Manjensen5 votes

{quoted}

Because the community ASKED for those changes.

Yes because watching the same shit for 6 seasons is well shit, and they didn't do it because they love you, they started losing money, otherwise they wouldn't bother, but of course they fucked it up and won't admit it and probably won't get fixed till season 8, maybe not even then.

Segius2 votes

"ruin" what do you mean "ruin" you are sitting on a league forums posting about league stuff, you obviously play this game a lot like me and if you dont think its "ruined"

League is still fun regardless of snowballing and meta

Smitty Manjensen3 votes

{quoted}

"ruin" what do you mean "ruin" you are sitting on a league forums posting about league stuff, you obviously play this game a lot like me and if you dont think its "ruined"

League is still fun regardless of snowballing and meta

I played 2 games last night alone, which I regret, before that only played with a friend if he invites me for 2 maybe 3 games, and that happens every couple of days, the game is getting shittier with every patch, before I played much much more, and I am posting because if people don't call them out on their bullshit the game will get even worse, also spend too much money in the past(which I regret) on this game to completely stop playing it.

MrDeeBee1 votes

I highly agree.

VoraciousX4 votes

While I agree that a lot of complaints have caused a lot of things to happen. There's one thing we didn't ask for: autofill

Milla Jovovich4 votes

I'm not gay,but he is cute as heck.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

I'm gay and can confirm. Is he though? He kinda looks like it and judging from his twitter, idk.

Milla Jovovich2 votes

Username checks out sir

And yes,he is gay too,check his facebook

Edit: He is bi

Edit v2 : I guess I am bi too

Bronze Bonanza4 votes

Okay I just watched some of the video and he's making tons of shit up. Been leashing/getting leashed since season 1. "Oh junglers didn't have runes, never got leashed, lel everyone was so bad" yeah okay he can keep telling himself that.

FxyO4 votes

nah mate, it went to shit when greg street came in. he ruined wow years ago.

Aeszarck2 votes

{quoted}

nah mate, it went to shit when greg street came in. he ruined wow years ago.

Why is it his fault specifically?

FxyO1 votes

{quoted}

Why is it his fault specifically?

he was hired as lead game designer in 2014. i just started playing this game since 2010 (dota player) and was wondering if the game started getting worse around that time. damage creep etc.

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

he was hired as lead game designer in 2014. i just started playing this game since 2010 (dota player) and was wondering if the game started getting worse around that time. damage creep etc.

Correlation does not imply causation. Just because he joined then does not mean that the game got worse because of him. That's why I asked for specifics. What did he do to make the game worse?

FxyO3 votes

{quoted}

Correlation does not imply causation. Just because he joined then does not mean that the game got worse because of him. That's why I asked for specifics. What did he do to make the game worse?

Theres honestly too much to list. Damage was out of control, some healers were struggling, ranged classes were doing way too much damage. So his idea of balancing is giving the struggling classes weak changes that didnt effect anything and giving the imba classes nerfs that werent even relevant in the slightest to their current performance. He basically had no idea how the game worked at a high level and threw around buffs / nerfs based around statistics and not gameplay. He was shit talked by every arena player that cared to gain rating.

Aeszarck1 votes

{quoted}

Theres honestly too much to list. Damage was out of control, some healers were struggling, ranged classes were doing way too much damage. So his idea of balancing is giving the struggling classes weak changes that didnt effect anything and giving the imba classes nerfs that werent even relevant in the slightest to their current performance. He basically had no idea how the game worked at a high level and threw around buffs / nerfs based around statistics and not gameplay. He was shit talked by every arena player that cared to gain rating.

Can you show why it was him specifically who was responsible for the changes, or are you just attributing all the changes that happened after he joined to him?

FxyO1 votes

{quoted}

Can you show why it was him specifically who was responsible for the changes, or are you just attributing all the changes that happened after he joined to him?

dude do you need his resume or something? he was lead class balance designer and the one that discussed all the changes he made on he forums personally. google it.

Moetaro3 votes

This %%%%% makes his living by runing top games. He arrives to the ship, you count one year, and you can see the ship sinking. This guy is like the black death. As I've said, one year after he arrives, the ship starts to sink.

I cannot understand why a top game would hire this guy, seriously, when I knew LoL hired him I couldnt believe it. Why would they want to kill their game, I wondered.

Btw, things wont go better, the same way it didnt go better in WoW (until he left). Burning Crusade, rest in peace, we miss you. Vanilla WoW, rest in peace, we miss you. The rest of the expansions I've played (ghostcrawler's work) can go hell and rot.

Hexs Fortune3 votes

buff towers

Surr20plz3 votes

This is akin to holocaust denial.

Riot makes the game. They are responsible for the state of the game.

End of line.

Lintu Puck1 votes

so gun manufacturers are responsible for every murder with a gun?

Unpaladin2 votes

That would make sense if players were actually able to shape a meta. Riot forces 90% of them with changes that come out of nowhere, so players don't really get to decide on what's going to be the norm outside of rare circumstances. This would be more like the creator making guns that compelled someone to shoot civillains 0.3% of the time. ######Botlane Ziggs doesn't count, Riot said they were forcing it

Covert Ops Gnar3 votes

Why the fuck would ANYBODY want snowballing higher than a small degree?

Then: I have 4 kills and outfarming by 80cs, now I am ahead of their ADC and support and can force a contest at dragon

Now: I have two kills, one tower, now I can take dragon for free and then 1v5

Nobody else on the team is given a chance to scale if one person dies early.

Segius2 votes

Since when can adc's 1 v 5 with 2 kills ^ Honestly I can easily still kill them as a jungler

Bronze Bonanza2 votes

{quoted}

how "the leads you get mean nothing", how "Riot is preventing snowballing."

Said nobody fucking ever.

Seriously.

The only (very specific) cases something like this statement was agreed on by a decent portion of the community was A) the "top laners are useless and don't affect games" meme, which is more true than ever right now and B) Singed and very rarely some other proxy champions being able to feed and then still push down towers while giving reduced gold on death

A Doorknob2 votes

Riot balances the game not us. Blame us all you want, Riot has the final word.

Matake2 votes

I refuse to listen to Michael Jackson.

We are actually not responsible for anything related to the game. Rito controls everything through itemization and buffs/nerfs to champions. The state of the game is in their hands, not ours.

Liofa1 votes

This is so fucking hipster it's sad. If the jews didn't wanna be baked in ovens they shoulda just stopped being greedy gnomes hoarding that jew gold amirite. Fucking stupid as fuck.

RexSaur1 votes

Snowballing and single player impact is good, however that doesnt mean the game should last 5~10 minutes.

They arent mutually exclusive either, back in season 2 games easily went into the 40+ min mark territory and was a lot slower paced but a single player could actually hard carry a game compared to today (where carrying basically means get your team ahead).

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