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To the nunu buffs on the pbe

KilljoyX··3 votes·1,051 views

First

> Consume (Q): > Cooldown lowered to 12/11/10/9/8 from 13/12/11/10/9 > [Passive changed] > [NEW EFFECT] Passive - Feed the Yeti: For every Large or Epic Monster Consumed, Nunu gains 10 out of combat movement speed and 3% bonus max health for the next ~[60+20 per level] seconds. If Willump is starving, he will move significantly slower and all spells will cost more. > > (Willump is a fickle eater, so he doesn't receive bonuses from eating the exact same monster multiple times) > "Hunger" movement speed penalty is 35 > "Hunger" mana cost penalty is double base mana cost. > "Hunger" timer included under health bar. > > Absolute Zero (R) [new effect] movement speed slow now increases to 95% over duration of channel.

Ok so the good.

Pro's The flat ult buff is great. Thank you. The ult needs to be something that if you are deep in forces you to use something to get out of it. Secondly. The Q changes are interesting but really depend on the out of combat movement speed and max hp stacking. Do they stack? If they do stack I say this with all seriousness... How high? If they are uncapped I just want to explain something to you from a math perspective.

Assuming you kill your own jg and 1/2 scuttles at level say 13 Those buffs will last for 320 seconds which grant 15% max hp and 50 out of combat movement speed.

If they do not stack. Oh god. If it doesnt stack the hunger debuff is really unneeded. There is no reason to penalize people for ganking in the early game. Which is exactly what this will do. I actually like the changes but if it doesn't stack what is the point? You're just hurting his early game significantly then. I say this because assuming you kill a camp and walk around the ward you'll have ~120 seconds or so to gank, back, and get back to a camp preventing and possibility of chain ganks or participating in sieges. Do you have any idea how horrible sieges are with this new hunger change? He used to be one of the best siege jgs with good AD's since he could make the AD get more shots off. Extended sieges to get towers are now just horrifyingly bad. 35 MS is huge. Double mana is huge.

Now the thing is I don't know if it stacks or not and if so how high. If it stacks and is uncapped it will never make it live. If it doesn't stack and makes it live I'll abandon the champion. If It stacks and has some cap that would be really cool similar to chogath.

EDIT: It seems you can get 1 stack per camp on the map of which there are 14 + epic monsters. Now really you'll never get 16 stacks. Which is fine that would be absurd. However the loss of in combat movement speed and a significant nerf to his early damage make it hard to embrace these changes. Additionally as long as they dont nerf the duration it's a small buff overall to full tank nunu. Very small, but there. The R buff however seems rather significant which I like as long as the base doesn't drop below 50%.

ALSO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN HE NOT GET THE DEBUFF UNTIL 2 MINUTES?

It's stupid if he starts with that.

16 Comments

bluefall4 votes

Off topic, but I'm curious to know how this Q change works on aram since there's no jungle creep to eat. Would he just be forever hungry and slow with increased mana costs?

Seems like an oversight.

Edit: Ah, seems cannon minions and the larger ones that spawn after your inhib is down count as hunger targets.

But this still makes it seem more like a champion upkeep than a bonus ability effect where aram is concerned since you'd need to eat to avoid the hunger penalty.

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

Off topic, but I'm curious to know how this Q change works on aram since there's no jungle creep to eat. Would he just be forever hungry and slow with increased mana costs?

Seems like an oversight.

Edit: Ah, seems cannon minions and the larger ones that spawn after your inhib is down count as hunger targets.

But this still makes it seem more like a champion upkeep than a bonus ability effect where aram is concerned since you'd need to eat to avoid the hunger penalty.

Not to mention you automatically become easy to read once the enemy team realizes you NEED that cannon creep to not have the hunger debuff, so they automatically pick you off every time you try to go for one. This change seems very arbitrary and not well thought out. It seems cool in theory, but honestly what nunu needs is a VGU

bluefall1 votes

[{quoted}](name=NMF Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BW1yqm0i,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-09-21T16:22:36.286+0000)

Not to mention you automatically become easy to read once the enemy team realizes you NEED that cannon creep to not have the hunger debuff, so they automatically pick you off every time you try to go for one. This change seems very arbitrary and not well thought out. It seems cool in theory, but honestly what nunu needs is a VGU

Probably. Nunu is my friend's favorite champion but we both agree that he feels a bit outdated. We just can't figure out what they might change in a full update.

Eating creeps, throwing snowballs, and ulting are iconic nunu abilities. So I guess you could do something with bloodboil and maybe give him a different passive. I dunno. Judging by riot's latest work they'll probably make his snowball a skill shot which is kinda annoying but might make it situationally more useful than it being a click skill.

9L9L9L9L9L9L9L1 votes

Let's just hope they don't revert it

KilljoyX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MastaChief 11219,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BW1yqm0i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-21T15:46:52.129+0000)

Let's just hope they don't revert it

That depends heavily on it stacking. I really hope it reverts if it doesn't stack.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Here's how it works: the buff stacks, with each large monster or epic monster on the map having its own stack. Eating that monster again resets the duration of its stack, it does not give you more.

So, if you have eaten both birds, both Gromps, both Kruggs, both wolves, both reds, both blues, Baron, dragon, and both scuttles in the last two minutes or so, you have 48% increased maximum health and 160 out of combat move speed.

It's unlikely, just because respawn timers aren't consistent across the board. But as long as you're at about 10 stacks or so (30% increased health and 100 ooc ms) you're probably fine.

KilljoyX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BW1yqm0i,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-21T16:45:45.406+0000)

Here's how it works: the buff stacks, with each large monster or epic monster on the map having its own stack. Eating that monster again resets the duration of its stack, it does not give you more.

So, if you have eaten both birds, both Gromps, both Kruggs, both wolves, both reds, both blues, Baron, dragon, and both scuttles in the last two minutes or so, you have 48% increased maximum health and 160 out of combat move speed.

It's unlikely, just because respawn timers aren't consistent across the board. But as long as you're at about 10 stacks or so (30% increased health and 100 ooc ms) you're probably fine.

This is the information I was looking for.

Clarification request. Allied camps and enemy camps are different for the purposes of stacking. Not the type of monster.

Clarification request. Dragon respawns are 6 min, if you eat dragon, then eat megadragon at level 15+ do you get the second stack.

Clarification request. Is out of combat, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 seconds. The exact time heavily determines it's usefulness.

Considering as far as I can tell this replaces his old passive he needs to maintain minimum 4 camps eaten to be equal or better than before. Likely 5 or 6 simply because he loses 1% max hp damage.

Pro's -Furthers his identity. -Net neutral clear (I think????) with CD on Q change. -Higher potential, I know I Personally will be sitting around 18%MAX hp most of the game with potential to move up to 30. -Cements his playstyle of taking all the camps.

Con's -15% in combat movement speed lost is rather catastrophic as it's his only real escape. Since I (And most) nunus go green smite smiting a minion gave a MS boost. -1% damage loss is actually pretty big for early damage. It's not dissimilar to dropping his base AD by 3-5. He's already a bad duelist but with this he'll likely lose trades even to auto attackers who he's supposed to beat.

I like the direction of the changes but the out of combat movement speed is really underwhelming. I'd MUCH rather see a smaller always active MS buff. Even 3 or 4 MS which was always active would be significantly better considering that a large buff is being lost. They went full on HP and nerfed his chasing and ganking. His ganking was already pretty underwhelming but this goes a bit far.

Meep Man1 votes

I actually find the loss of the 1% Health Damage kind of minimal. I don't think Nunu is a champion that is supposed to be going out and dueling people. However, I find this to be an overall net buff since his Q got the cool down reduced and the R slow was buffed a ton.

Also, I think they are trying to cement Nunu into the Counter Jungle role. So, instead of ganking a ton, if at all, Nunu goes into the enemy Jungle and eats their monsters to both deny them gold and XP and buff himself.

KilljoyX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BW1yqm0i,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-09-21T18:05:15.401+0000)

I actually find the loss of the 1% Health Damage kind of minimal. I don't think Nunu is a champion that is supposed to be going out and dueling people. However, I find this to be an overall net buff since his Q got the cool down reduced and the R slow was buffed a ton.

Also, I think they are trying to cement Nunu into the Counter Jungle role. So, instead of ganking a ton, if at all, Nunu goes into the enemy Jungle and eats their monsters to both deny them gold and XP and buff himself.

I do not believe you understand what the nerf means. It means you cannot level 3 invade the same jungle champs. That 1% changes the outcome of several duels such as the elise matchup. Previously razor close depending on if you save your snowball for her W now you just straight up cannot fight her unless you have an exorbitant number of camps. I did the math and his clear is slightly worse now. It's roughly 6 or 7 seconds longer, worse if you took AS marks already. Not entirely happy about that. The only way to fix it would be further reduction in Q CD and that would increase his clear dramatically.

Meep Man1 votes

Ok, but have you forgotten the fact that Gromp's poison damage scales with your Max Health as well? This also allows Nunu possibly have access to Juggernaut items, like Titanic Hydra in particular since his health with only about 7 stacks of his Q Passive is immense.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

This is the information I was looking for.

Clarification request. Allied camps and enemy camps are different for the purposes of stacking. Not the type of monster.

Clarification: Yes, it is the exact monster. There are sixteen unique camps in the game, each with its own large monster. Each one of them gets a separate timer for Nunu. It's actually disturbingly elegant, and I'm very impressed by Riot's cleverness here.

Clarification request. Dragon respawns are 6 min, if you eat dragon, then eat megadragon at level 15+ do you get the second stack.

I can't tell you that. I don't have a PBE account.

Clarification request. Is out of combat, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 seconds. The exact time heavily determines it's usefulness.

Think I read somewhere that it's 5 seconds for this ability (similar to Boots of Mobility). I think 5 seconds is the standard, regardless.

Considering as far as I can tell this replaces his old passive he needs to maintain minimum 4 camps eaten to be equal or better than before. Likely 5 or 6 simply because he loses 1% max hp damage.

Yeah, he does lose the % health damage, but interestingly enough Titanic Hydra is probably incredibly scary on him now.

Pro's -Furthers his identity. -Net neutral clear (I think????) with CD on Q change. -Higher potential, I know I Personally will be sitting around 18%MAX hp most of the game with potential to move up to 30. -Cements his playstyle of taking all the camps.

Con's -15% in combat movement speed lost is rather catastrophic as it's his only real escape. Since I (And most) nunus go green smite smiting a minion gave a MS boost. -1% damage loss is actually pretty big for early damage. It's not dissimilar to dropping his base AD by 3-5. He's already a bad duelist but with this he'll likely lose trades even to auto attackers who he's supposed to beat.

I like the direction of the changes but the out of combat movement speed is really underwhelming. I'd MUCH rather see a smaller always active MS buff. Even 3 or 4 MS which was always active would be significantly better considering that a large buff is being lost. They went full on HP and nerfed his chasing and ganking. His ganking was already pretty underwhelming but this goes a bit far.

The in combat MS buff is nothing compared to 100+ MS across the map. That is Quinn levels of map pressure. You see someone ganking top, you're eating their blue by the time they've burned a flash.

Thing about Nunu is, he's absolutely the strongest he can be when he's not in combat. And getting this absurd MS buff makes it harder to keep him in combat, since Nunu can easily run from fights with Blood Boil. This buff makes him much harder to chase down with gap closers.

It's not a net neutral clear, it's most certainly a buff to his clear speed. You're ignoring the immense increase in damage he'll receive from Smiting Gromp with this large % health buff.

KilljoyX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BW1yqm0i,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2016-09-21T18:36:17.754+0000)

Clarification: Yes, it is the exact monster. There are sixteen unique camps in the game, each with its own large monster. Each one of them gets a separate timer for Nunu. It's actually disturbingly elegant, and I'm very impressed by Riot's cleverness here.

I can't tell you that. I don't have a PBE account.

Think I read somewhere that it's 5 seconds for this ability (similar to Boots of Mobility). I think 5 seconds is the standard, regardless.

Yeah, he does lose the % health damage, but interestingly enough Titanic Hydra is probably incredibly scary on him now.

The in combat MS buff is nothing compared to 100+ MS across the map. That is Quinn levels of map pressure. You see someone ganking top, you're eating their blue by the time they've burned a flash.

Thing about Nunu is, he's absolutely the strongest he can be when he's not in combat. And getting this absurd MS buff makes it harder to keep him in combat, since Nunu can easily run from fights with Blood Boil. This buff makes him much harder to chase down with gap closers.

It's not a net neutral clear, it's most certainly a buff to his clear speed. You're ignoring the immense increase in damage he'll receive from Smiting Gromp with this large % health buff.

You are incorrect.

His clear speed is not equal to previous until 5 camps have been cleared. His first clear, the only one that matters, is MUCH worse.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

You are incorrect.

His clear speed is not equal to previous until 5 camps have been cleared. His first clear, the only one that matters, is MUCH worse.

The only one that matters? I'm sorry, if you think that you're either inexperienced or you're just a bad Nunu player.

Being able to clear every camp in the game significantly faster because you have 100 OOC MS is an insane buff. If you think that the first clear speed matters for a champion who doesn't gank you don't understand what counterjungling is all about.

KilljoyX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BW1yqm0i,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-21T21:04:58.002+0000)

The only one that matters? I'm sorry, if you think that you're either inexperienced or you're just a bad Nunu player.

Being able to clear every camp in the game significantly faster because you have 100 OOC MS is an insane buff. If you think that the first clear speed matters for a champion who doesn't gank you don't understand what counterjungling is all about.

Moving from camp to camp the buff will not activate. It will turn on as you Q the camp.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Crossing the river takes at least 5 seconds.

Meep Man1 votes

Now if only everyone knew this and would stop complaining so much, especially the first part.

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