New-ish Health Item Concept

Stacona·May 16, 2015·2 votes·718 views

So this concept item is pretty much be the big health item and give non-smite users a % bonus health item to get. The passives will be both same name for no stacking, and Cinderhulk will still have cheaper gold and the sunfire passive advantages, and this item will be strictly better tank scaling as far as health goes. aka two similar items will still have their own uniqueness, pros, and cons.

Titan's Belt: Recipe: Giant's Belt (1000g) + Giant's Belt (1000g) + 850g = 2850g

Statistics: +800 Health +UNIQUE Passive - Juggernaut: Increase your bonus Health by 30%.

Hope you appreciate the idea! ~ Stacona

9 Comments

Soybean16May 16, 20151 votes

I like the idea, but maybe tone it down a bit to ~500-600 + 25-30%. 800 and 30% seems like too much. I really do like the idea of having a % based non-smite health item though!

StaconaMay 16, 20151 votes

it has 720 health from two giant's belts- i want the bonus health to be stronger than cinderhulk's since this item is only for health where as cinderhulk has the sunfire cape with it---

My thought process was have it like Deathcap, but for tanks - so highest tier health item with a % increase value, deathcap is highest tier AP with % AP

retrospect warmogs is 2500 gold with massive regen values and 800 health --- 800 health is roughly 2220 gold - with 30% bonus health the item is roughly 2500g , so the investment value is there in order to make the item gold equal and gold efficient

Soybean16May 16, 20151 votes

Now that I think about it, the 800 and 30% does seem appropriate, as long as there are no armor, magic resist, or any other stats, just pure hp. Thank you for explaining it that way

StaconaMay 16, 20151 votes

You would get other resistances too - but not directly on the item to go with the health you would have

Hard4HamstersMay 16, 20152 votes

I'm on the other side of the fence. I DON'T want a percent health item for tanks outside of the jungle. With the increased gold income that toplaner's have, they are usually a full item ahead of the jungler by lategame (a better item at that). They don't need the help to become tankier. They can easily break 4k hp and that's while buying Thornmail or Frozen Heart. The reason %HP was implemented on a Jungler item was that jungle tanks were outclassed in all areas by lane tanks in terms of health, resistances, and levels. This let's them keep up with other lanes even if they're an item down (and if they buy Sightstone), and let's them stay relevant in the later parts of the game, when they are SUPPOSED to be strongest.

Giving %HP to laners without having to make a sacrifice by taking Smite, gives them unnecessary power. Sion, Maokai, Gnar, and others are strong enough tanks as is. They are all fantastic laners and giving them more power for free would not be healthy for the game. Think about it in terms of Cinderhulk, Sejuani was a strong jungler before Cinderhulk, after the item was added, she rose to a near 60% winrate. She has been nerfed since then, but she is still very strong.

I feel like a lot of the people who are complaining about the tank meta are also those in favor of making the %HP item accessible to everyone. This is completely counter-intuitive as it will push for more tanks in the toplane than there are now. Even tanky supports would be grabbing the item to make themselves beefier. I like that they nerfed Cinderhulk's damage as it was excessive, but I still think it should be exclusively a smite related item as it was the jungling tanks that needed help in the first place. Laning tanks were doing fine before and after Cinderhulk was added.

Good luck in the future. Have fun. Peace.

StaconaMay 16, 20151 votes

Top laners are using Smite for the % bonus health now though, might as well give them a more expensive version that is only defense orientated, and junglers can keep the cheaper sunfire version to themselves

Red smite cinderhulk is a top lane only thing, and besides they gives offense and defense - this item is only defense and more expensive - its a great item for the hyper tanks and balance them out better by removing offensive qualities

Also this is not even close to a complaining post; tank meta does make more exciting games, and is a lot better over assassins because assassins are not fun to play against like kat, leblanc, zed, talon, rengar, etc. --- but if anything this balances the game out more with giving the laner only defense and not offensive and defensive power houses late game and make them super dominating - while junglers with cinderhulk use purple or blue smite so they have their scaling but less oppressive than red smite cinderhulk - so give top lane tanks a better defense health scaling item without the offensive tools makes them less oppressive but still allows for the hyper tank top lane meta and allow for other things to be played alongside the hyper tanks in the top lane

Also Cinderhulk was added to give jungle tanks a way to clear better while giving them a good scaling item since health is not a clear speed stat --- but one way or another top lane will take a % health item, so might as well give them a less oppressive one and let junglers have their own item

Hard4HamstersMay 17, 20152 votes

They just nerfed top lane smite for the offensive capabilities they were using it for. Red smite was nerfed to 4 seconds and cinderhulk only does half the damage it was doing before. IF top laners still want Smite for the %HP, they will. But they are sacrificing even more now, which is appropriate for how good %HP is for tanks. I don't think we'll see much of it anymore because of the offensive capabilities taken out of Red Smite Cinderhulk.

You still don't get the main point I was trying to make. LANING TOP LANE TANKS HAVE A S*** TON OF INCOME. They don't need an item that gives more HP than Cinderhulk. They already reach 4k health on a regular game item 3083 item 3065 item 3143 together with runes and masteries give over 2000 bonus health. And that is just 3 items.

Say a toplaner and a jungler reach lategame. Both are tanks, but the toplaner has 14k gold and the Jungler has 12k gold, which is not an unreasonable difference. With that gold they can buy most of the same items: item 3083 item 3110 item 3065 but they will differ in one item because the jungler will take item 3725 whereas the toplaner will take item 3143 item 3068 or item 3800 / item 3027 (because Maokai). But wait, the toplaner has 2000 more gold. (2500 + 2450 + 2750 + 2800 + 1000[boots] = 11500 gold) on the Top Laners items before his last item, he would have at least one more part to an item at this point if not a completed one. Whereas the Jungler would be behind in that respect, not to mention that Junglers are the second most responsible for vision on the team, meaning they will have spent more money on Wards or a Sightstone during the game.

Let's say that we got rid of the %HP on Cinderhulk, we will just compare the difference between a laner and a jungler tank.

Top Lane: item 3143 item 3110 item 3065 item 3047 item 3083 (11550 gold) (1700 Health, 195 armor, 55 MR) Jungler: item 3725 (give it 500 health flat) item 3190 item 2049 item 1011 (10300 gold) (1430 Health, 125 armor, 40 MR): now let's convert the health to the actual Cinderhulk numbers 1230 x 1.25 = 1538 health, still UNDER the flat health given to toplaners by buying similar items. Even if you don't get Sightstone and get another item, you will still be at around he same HP values as a toplane tank. I'll even get rid of FH and substitute Righteous Glory and then get Warden's mail (1550 x 1.25 = 1938 finally breaking the amount of health a toplaner would have but with less resistances meaning less effective health.

Now if you give %health to a toplaner without sacrifice, they will be able to take a greater advantage of it than a jungler could. Tanks are doing just fine as it is in the toplane, and I don't see any reason in giving them another strong item pickup. Particularly one as powerful as you are suggesting. Replace Warmogs with your item that gives 800 health and 30% bonus health in my toplaner example. We just need to multiply 1700 by 1.3 and get 2210 HP (without runes or masteries) and that is only 4 items. Tack on a Warmog's on top of that and you will reach 6k health easily on someone like Sion. Also note that if you make it a unique passive, Jungler's would not be able to use the item effectively, putting them farther behind the lane tanks. That's my piece. Hopefully, you see what I'm getting at. Later. Peace.

StaconaMay 18, 20151 votes

Guys a supportive role gets more gold than a carry role --- oh wait, no No point in coming in here, calling someone a fking idiot, and stating the obvious in a comment that is way to fking long to say the fking obvious - no duh the support makes less gold than a carry role which is why my suggested item is more expensive, more powerful, but less efficient than cinderhulk is - but if top lane [a carry role] and jungle [a support role] both get cinderhulk, guess who uses it better? the carry role because they have more gold for more item - but as one item on its own cinderhulk will be way more efficient not to mention directly cheaper than my item- in short jungler pay 2k while top would pay for 6k for sunfire and titan's belt, it is going to be a lot more powerful but because they also paid 3x more gold for the same types of stats, all this change will do is balance the game out better

Hard4HamstersMay 18, 20152 votes

No it won't.