About the Mage item update...

Mister Support··5 votes·1,089 views

Just a few things that I think people have overlooked big time:

  1. Hasn't even reached PBE yet, meaning they are MASSIVELY subject to change, with Riot even noting they plan to add some AP back in to the items.

  2. Overall changes to Mages have not been revealed, so base stats post update are unknown. Mages could get higher base mana regen, or higher ability ratios, or higher base armor, or even natural ap. It's Riot, you never know.

  3. In regards to the "No extra AP/Armor item RIP" folks out there, you have new options for some items with HP/AP which will be effectively against all kinds of damage. In addition, Zhonya's still has the same armor value with a cheaper total cost. Meaning you get it sooner, will get the same defensive qualities, just less of a "buy this for damage" item.

  4. While spellvamp is being removed from items, it was rarely if ever actually used. The only champion I ever saw consistently use spellvamp, and not Omnivamp, was Vladimir and he's being adjusted for this. Otherwise, the popularity of the item on all other champions is about 1%, so 1 in every 100 games will someone actually purchase item 3152 . And even with the removal of spellvamp, a new way of health sustain was added for mages as a replacement in the new item 3010 , just or using an ability, rather than actually landing it. So if you have blue buff, just spam your low cooldown abilities and you'll be healing up just fine.

  5. Tear may become a must buy for late-game mages: With the addition of so much extra mana in items, Tear, and therefore Archangel's staff, may become the go to item with Deathcaps for scaling damage. I wouldn't be surprised if at full build item 3003 ended up giving you an extra 100 AP just from its passive. Think of a build like such item 3003 item 3165 Hextech-GLP07A, item 3089 item 3116 item 3020 for plenty of mana, good AP, strong CC, good amount of HP, and tiny bit of pen.

  6. No one on the boards has been able to actually try things out yet, so we can't say for sure how this will turn out.

6 Comments

Lao Fu the Tiger2 votes

Are you kidding?! How DARE you tell me I'm not allowed to make snap judgments without actually seeing the changes for myself! I want to bash the ever living crap out of things nobody has ever tested and rage about things that have no objective statistics!

Vekkna1 votes

On the other hand:

Zyra uses QWW on an enemy (lvl 18 with only 300 AP), and plants get two shots off:

item 3152 healing from single target = 40.25

item 3010 healing from mana cost = 14.25

So yeah, on your average mage, the new catalyst healing is worse than the old WoTA nobody built because it didn't heal for shit. Typical caster mages will get nothing from the new catalyst, but we'll get a whole lot more abuse out of it from Swain Cassiopeia Anivia Ryze Kassadin Singed Chogath and maybe even Ezreal or Urgot

Not to mention that any tank building a Righteous Glory will never oom and will get some free combat hp sustain.

item 3010 currently heals 150 hp every time you level up. To even match that healing, you'd have to spend 1000 mana every level just to replace the lost sustain during laning/midgame. In other words, ROA mages' lane sustain was just completely dumpstered. We might get 150 healing from the new catalyst every 2-4 levels (depending on which levels).

Then there's the obvious discrepancies between AD and AP. With the new Catalyst, you'd have to spend 20 mana just to match the heal on hit from a item 1083. If an ADC has 20% lifesteal (let's say 10% from Warlord's and 10% from Vamp Scepter) and 100 total AD, the ADC's healing per AA is equal to a mage spending 133 mana. One AA = 133 mana. That's how garbage this new catalyst healing is.

My constructive suggestion is that instead of making a post saying "guys, everything's going to be just fine," do some math and realize that this is a legit gutting. It doesn't help most mages (or basically any of the ones in the update).

Mister Support1 votes

A Strong point there, though I forgot to mention the spellvamp comparison was late game only :x Since RoA gives no sustain at level 18 and is barely noticeable at 16-17, at that point the new Catalyst would be of more use since it is consistent healing rather than only upon leveling up.

Vekkna1 votes

Catalyst was mages' lane sustain. We have to worry about hp and mana, while common enemies only have to worry about hp and often start with lifesteal. That's gone, and ADs have a bigger advantage.

Spellvamp is supposed to be mages' combat sustain, which was already noticeably lacking when it comes to dueling, sieging, and objectives. Ashe solos a dragon, clears Scuttle, and is back to full hp and ready to meet up with the team to push mid. Syndra solos a dragon, and if she survives, she has to recall. That was already a big weak spot for mages, and instead of fixing it, they're making it worse. Meanwhile, healing items for AD and hybrid were made much stronger this season by healing off ability and effect damage.

Echous1 votes

This. Exactly this.

It's not about getting to test it, it's about the numbers and we have all the numbers.

Mages basically just got shit on, even if RIOT scrapes this entire batch of items, what scares me most is that THIS, these types of chnages these types of "item improvements" are what Riot thinks mages need, and that really shows how out of the loop they are on mages actually lower levels right now among the different champion types.

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