"Instakill from stealth is so unfair so we reworked rengar and evelynn."

Dasdi96·Nov 20, 2017·53 votes·2,971 views

So how come this logic doesn't apply to ? If he gets even a slight lead, he just runs around the map killing people in less than 2 seconds like old rengar did. Except he does it from 850 range instead of melee range so you can't even fight back if you are a short range mage or a melee. The only thing you can do is hope he pops up in melee range of your entire team to shut him down. Oh wait, he is an adc, so he deserves special treatment.

89 Comments

SkorchNov 20, 201728 votes

Oh boy, another one of these EXACT same posts. With nothing new, at all.

ShablagooNov 20, 201717 votes

probably because its been an issue for the whole of season 7 and nothing has been done. You see the exact same post because it is common with everyone twitch is op.

Yaśuo MainNov 20, 20177 votes

More like it's a circlejerk, which is EXACTLY what this is. Same thing "nerf twitch" no real explanation as to why other than some claims with no proof and the common "special treatment cuz adc" statement.

ShablagooNov 20, 20174 votes

See this is the thing, it is either you refuse to accept reality cuz you abuse him or you just want to be some hispter who goes against the current popular trend. In this he literally explains how it is strange how rengar which was able to specifically oneshot adc's and pretty much one target gets nerfed constantly. Yet twitch which has the same ability and power but has a range advantage and is able to do it to your entire team too. There is no consistency with the nerfs or reactions from the balancing team. Both aspects are toxic so their should be some nerf or reaction but for some reason they arent.

AirKingNeoNov 20, 20175 votes

See this is the thing, it is either you refuse to accept reality cuz you abuse him or you just want to be some hispter who goes against the current popular trend.

Even if he had a bias of any kind, that does not disprove his point. You people refuse to give an explanation nor any proof.

In this he literally explains how it is strange how rengar which was able to specifically oneshot adc's and pretty much one target gets nerfed constantly. Yet twitch which has the same ability and power but has a range advantage and is able to do it to your entire team too. There is no consistency with the nerfs or reactions from the balancing team. Both aspects are toxic so their should be some nerf or reaction but for some reason they arent.

Two different champions tend to be balanced differently and independently.

ShablagooNov 21, 20172 votes

I just gave an explanation, i literally explained the idea behind the post, proof would be shown by the fact that twitch has been 51+ winrate the whole s7 in every elo and continues to be a terror. Adc's are a op class in general and with the changes to the support class and the lower of crit item cost the class has been way to much the whole season. Games were dictated by the bot lane entirely, if you watch lcs it seems to be the same. Twitch is one example of way to strong

So twitch blowing up an entire team, is balanced compared to blowing up one single champion? You understand that regardless both need counterplay? Twitch getting a steath with attacks speed and a range increase from his ult that is not dodgable by the way, which gives time only for tanks to reacted because the burst from his crit is similar to that of an assassins is not toxic right? Each post says something about twitch that is unfair but for some reason everyone says, another post saying nothing... do ppl read the posts?

Can you also explain then how twitch is balanced compared to the old rengar compared to twitch currently cuz I see no difference in balancing issues?

Sewer SideNov 21, 20172 votes

-1

AirKingNeoNov 22, 20171 votes

I just gave an explanation, i literally explained the idea behind the post, proof would be shown by the fact that twitch has been 51+ winrate the whole s7 in every elo and continues to be a terror.

That's a contradiction. Terror level champions don't hover just above 51%.

Adc's are a op class in general and with the changes to the support class and the lower of crit item cost the class has been way to much the whole season. Games were dictated by the bot lane entirely, if you watch lcs it seems to be the same.

With no proof provided at all, though I agree mostly. You lack one fundamental understanding: It's only 4 broken ADCs.

So twitch blowing up an entire team, is balanced compared to blowing up one single champion? You understand that regardless both need counterplay? Twitch getting a steath with attacks speed and a range increase from his ult that is not dodgable by the way, which gives time only for tanks to reacted because the burst from his crit is similar to that of an assassins is not toxic right? Each post says something about twitch that is unfair but for some reason everyone says, another post saying nothing... do ppl read the posts?

I never argued any of this. All I said was different champions are balanced differently.

ShablagooNov 22, 20171 votes

Do you know what contradiction means... Nothing I said was a contradiction, I just offered more proof it doesn't mean I contradicted myself. So champions sitting at 53or even 55% are fine?

Yes and twitch is literally one of the four, which are the four adc's then.

I didn't think what I said was to difficult, both champions have toxic aspects to them which means in the regard of their toxicity toward the game they present they must be balanced accordingly. What twitch is currently doing is in no way the way adc's are suppose to be balanced, just like rengar giving an adc no reaction time when destroying them. In both regards they are doing their job way to well which means they need to be balanced, rengar really hasnt be balanced tbh but they tried. So its time to try with twitch.

AirKingNeoNov 22, 20171 votes

You said 51%, not 53 or 55. 51% is not broken.

ShablagooNov 22, 20171 votes

I said 51+ which means above 51 % the entire season, and tbh yes anything that is consistently 51+ is broken, 50% is a balanced champion. Also cherry picking one aspect must mean that the rest is right so dont bother replaying.

AirKingNeoNov 22, 20171 votes

Kayle has been above a 51% winrate all season and last season.

No one is calling Kayle broken. No one is making delusional statements about Kayle.

ShablagooNov 23, 20171 votes

Because kayle doesnt, blow whole teams up in 1 to 2 seconds in teamfights. Kayle also plays in a lane were she will naturally dominate too, being ranged. Their is nothing delusional about the statements made about twitch, you just refuse to accept it, how can everyone who makes a statment about twitch be wrong is that even possible?

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

Sure she does. She buys Hurricane.

Maybe don't bring up winrate as an argument then refuse to argue on the topic you brought up.

Yes, they are all mostly delusional. He is not this broken, auto winning monster you claim. Your own argument on winrate shows that.

AirKingNeoNov 24, 20171 votes

But the topic wasn't twitch's range, the topic was AoE damage.

You argued about Twitch's winrate. Please stop moving the goal posts because you're losing.

literally explained the idea behind the post, proof would be shown by the fact that twitch has been 51+ winrate the whole s7 in every elo and continues to be a terror.

ShablagooNov 24, 20171 votes

Cmon now you know what we are talking about, you want evidence about what is broken about twitch, Im giving you specific properties along with statistics that show so. Now you are saying we are talking about aoe dmg gfto man, we are talking about proof to show what makes twitch op, changing the subject twitch is op and if you can't offer any counter reply just stop talking.

ShablagooNov 24, 20171 votes

Troll for TrumpNov 21, 20171 votes

It doesn't matter how much proof you give when you deluded people refuse to accept anything thrown against you.

AirKingNeoNov 21, 20171 votes

I'd accept something if it was the truth, but, since it isn't the truth (and thus has no supporting evidence), why should I conform to such an idea?

Unlike most of these people on the boards, I am both unbiased, know how statistics work, and use basic game knowledge to know if something is good or bad.

Troll for TrumpNov 22, 20171 votes

It isn't the truth (also you don't need something to be truth to have support for it)

It's an opinion. You need to accept that people have different opinions. While you can't refute their evidence and support, I think it would be unfair to say that all of them don't try to support their opinion. You don't need to conform, but at least acknowledge it; don't call it trash, circlejerk, or other things.

In this instance, this is a clear hyperbole of Twitch's power, but he has been performing relatively well for a while now (not as well as Ez, but still solid). He's not so busted (imo) that he needs hotfixes like Sona or Ez, but he could get some small nerfs or love taps. Should wait for him to get adjusted with new runes before making a final verdict, but Twitch's performance should be watched (which Riot is doing)

Sewer SideNov 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Oh boy, another one of these EXACT same posts. With nothing new, at all.

It's by the same person.

Keep an eye on Boards and you'll see a pattern. This guy should be banned for spamming the same topic

Subject 5Nov 20, 201713 votes

Evelynn Has to walk into vision range before killing Rengar Has to scream and shout to the enemy team: "I'M COMING TO KILL YOU" until his ultimate dies off or he jumps onto the carry he was trying to hunt down, who is now huddled up against 4 of his teammates. Twitch Has to right click out of his stealth and press his R button in a precise combo, extremely hard to pull off - don't you see? There's an overwhelming difference between the two.

Funny stuff aside though: I don't think it's Twitch, I think it's the fact that ADC's blow up way too quickly via: game is too snowbally. Seriously, do you know what DPS Stands for Rito? Damage-Per-Second.

So let's create a new category of marksman:

BPS - Burst Per Second Corki Draven Ezreal Graves Jhin Quinn MissFortune Lucian Vayne Twitch

DPS - Damage Per Second Ashe Caitlyn Sivir KogMaw Jinx Xayah Vayne Twitch Tristana Varus Kalista Kindred

Now let's take a look at what champions seem to be problematic:

Ashe Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Caitlyn Isn't a problem - she's annoying as hell but isn't exactly an abuse case. Sivir Isn't a problem - usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's KogMaw Isn't a problem by himself - he was a problem when the meta was being forced to stay as it was when the worlds was going on. Jinx Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Xayah Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Vayne Other than the fact that she can 100-10 you with 1 Q after 3-4 items - Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Twitch Problematic when he gets ahead - can completely wipe an entire team with an ultimate mid-late game - the only counterplay to his stealth currently is assuming where he is going to be and not being engaged on. If he didn't do so much damage in burst motions, it'd be okay but he does more than 1.5K Damage in seconds alone. Tristana This bitch is way too fucking safe for being a 'risk taker.' That is all - she's actually pretty damn healthy compared to others. Varus Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Kalista Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Kindred Isn't a problem, usually never a problem - receives less nerfs than most ADC's. Trash. Corki Flex pick - can go mid, top, bot and I'm surprised not jungle yet. Has more burst than even a mage and with free poke, access to AD and AP items - he has pretty 'okay' dps and serves his role pretty well. Draven Gets 1 kill and steamrolls you the entire game, does losing 1/4 your HP after dying once sound fun to you - good, enjoy that after 1 single loss in the bottom lane. Ezreal A champion that's been named after a rioter who has been breaking items since his creation has refused to be nerfed throughout his characters existence - how strange. First it was this item - then the next, now it's Ezreal jungle and now he's 1 shotting people because this keystone says so - I'm sorry, why did Lulu mid and top get removed but the adc gets to enjoy being played in the midlane, the toplane, the jungle, the adc role - and with the new kleptomancy rune - I get to have an income on par to my adc's if I choose to go support? Why does this guy get to march his way everywhere? Graves Got dumpstered, when he was good - he was good. Jhin He can't get 2 auto attacks out by the time the enemy adc just did 10 Billion damage to him and his team. Quinn Cheese. That is all. Cheese. MissFortune R Lucian Bursty DPS risk taker that has been a problem for quite a bit actually. Vayne "Loses in lane" LOL K this bitch just needs to do a cartwheel with 3 items and he just nearly 1 shot your mid laner. Burst and DPS - sounds fun, right? Lets give this whore some stealth too, that sounds like fun. And some self peel. And some of this, and some of that - why not throw in some additional mobility creep too . . .?

Overall: DPS ADC's aren't the problem, it's the ADC's that aren't actually DPS's that are the problem. They're acting as a missing role that is the assassin role, and they have decimating damage that is not able to be dodged compared to champions that have abilities that can be dodged.

Bionic JellyfishNov 20, 20171 votes

Overall: DPS ADC's aren't the problem, it's the ADC's that aren't actually DPS's that are the problem. They're acting as a missing role that is the assassin role, and they have decimating damage that is not able to be dodged compared to champions that have abilities that can be dodged.

There are only 4 ranged assassins. Twitch Teemo Vayne Quinn . 3 of 4 are cancerous. You discussed twitch and vayne, but teemo, despite never ever being in any meta, is still called satan by the community. and its for a reason.

Out of all 4, quinn is the one that is best designed. her burst is not tied to her autos; instead, she needs to properly combo her marks in order to burst someone down. she is the best example of a spellweaver (someone who combines spells and autos) that i can think of.

Even past that, one of her marks is tied to a skillshot that can be dodged.

TL:DR, ranged assassins all need changes, except for quinn.

RavenMagusNov 20, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bionic Jellyfish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BHPuqpYH,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-11-20T05:41:22.827+0000)

Out of all 4, quinn is the one that is best designed. her burst is not tied to her autos; instead, she needs to properly combo her marks in order to burst someone down

She runs at you at a million miles an hour, slams into you with a CC that's brief but long enough to pretty much guarantee she's hitting you, and one shots you with some mixture of crit/passive/duskblade/shiv.

If Quinn is the best example of a "fair" ranged assassin, then that's pretty sad. A good Quinn is hyper cancer to play against.

Bionic JellyfishNov 20, 20175 votes

{quoted}

She runs at you at a million miles an hour, slams into you with a CC that's brief but long enough to pretty much guarantee she's hitting you, and one shots you with some mixture of crit/passive/duskblade/shiv.

If Quinn is the best example of a "fair" ranged assassin, then that's pretty sad. A good Quinn is hyper cancer to play against.

But she does not instakill whole teams, or is completely useless the way the others are. she can only kill a single target and can't escape.

FireDrizzleNov 20, 20172 votes

Quinn is either unplayed or a overpowered cancer on toplane. Also their are other ranged assasins.

FutureCreatorNov 20, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bionic Jellyfish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BHPuqpYH,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-11-20T05:41:22.827+0000) but teemo, despite never ever being in any meta, is still called satan by the community. and its for a reason.

Yeah because he's annoying, not because he's good. The "satan" thing comes from his mushrooms, which are probobly the most powerful trap in the game, not because he's some amazing assasin.

Teemo will always be regarded as cancer no matter what happens, it's too much of a meme to die now.

FireDrizzleNov 20, 20172 votes

Trist, Jinx cait and xayah DON'T do BPS?

WolfChasesNov 20, 20171 votes

Kindred recievel less nerfs than most ADCs? :D I agree with ewerything else but this statement. :D Kindred got massive nerfs for 7 patches straight one by one and 2 minor nerfs prior to that, so 9 nerfs total + really really bad kit tweak on top of that which made her even worse. She's a complete garbage tier jungler unless she somehows get 10+ passive stacks which is almost impossible in any game after you get to Gold.

Subject 5Nov 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Kindred recievel less nerfs than most ADCs? :D I agree with ewerything else but this statement. :D Kindred got massive nerfs for 7 patches straight one by one and 2 minor nerfs prior to that, so 9 nerfs total + really really bad kit tweak on top of that which made her even worse. She's a complete garbage tier jungler unless she somehows get 10+ passive stacks which is almost impossible in any game after you get to Gold.

She was dumpstered REALLY Fucking quick compared to most ADC's - she might've reached an all time low as far as continuous nerfs go, but she hasn't received as many as other ADC's have.

She might've been nerfed 7 times in the row and then kicked in the shins with an iron but adc's like Ezreal and Lucian have actually received much more work than she has and likely will ever have as well.

So essentially: Kindered isn't a problem as long as keep her knee caps removed, doesn't seem like Riot is going to give her any knee-caps anytime soon.

WolfChasesNov 21, 20171 votes

Which is sad tho considering that Kindred is by far one of the most if not the most awesome champion in game. Ez And lucian recieved more, yes, but they are older than Kindred tho. I would realy like to see her buffed.

Subject 5Nov 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which is sad tho considering that Kindred is by far one of the most if not the most awesome champion in game. Ez And lucian recieved more, yes, but they are older than Kindred tho. I would realy like to see her buffed.

I usually refer to Kindred as Lamb - because you really don't play wolf, at all. Kayn feels like a more higher success story than Kindred ever was - I love the lore idea though.

WolfChasesNov 21, 20171 votes

Yea Kayn is nice but man, Kindred will always be the creepiest being in LoL, it's foocking sinister. :D

AirKingNeoNov 20, 201710 votes

Because Twitch can't instakill.

Bouncemaster ZacNov 20, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Because Twitch can't instakill.

Objectively wrong.

AirKingNeoNov 20, 20174 votes

Give me an example of a Twitch killing a full health champion in one auto attack.

That's an instakill.

TS MediaNov 20, 20177 votes

What about when you can see them coming, but still can't do anything about it?

JarvanIV has actually no counterplay for his assassination build... Chogath literally just righteous glories, runs into your face and proceeds to maul you in. Most cases, one auto and R Kayn Lol... do I even need to say anything? Nocturne Most of his gameplay revolves around suiciding... but still, really?

Most champs dive in, get a kill and either die/have no outs. I just wish they'd give Rengar back that nocturne like damage.

FutureCreatorNov 20, 20172 votes

You can just CC jarvan and Cho

DurzakaNov 20, 20173 votes

"just CC"

So we are back to that useless answer? That was a response to something being unbalanced in S3

GesterrNov 20, 20171 votes

With cho at least it's a fair answer as his only way of getting on the backline is a 5 min cd summomer spell, amd then until it's back all he can do is walk slowly towards you.

And if you respond with righteous glory then idk what your frontline is doing because it stops on the first champion he nears which your tanks should be willing to tank

DurzakaNov 20, 20175 votes

Just CC is an answer to literally everything except for Olaf.

So no, that is not a fair answer.