AD vs AP Itemization : Healing from damage dealt

Barso55··8 votes·3,984 views

Anyone else feel its kind of weird how the only reliable healing ap champs have is ravenous hunter (which is not in the most frequently picked AP tree - sorcery) and requires kills to be effective, while both ad AA champs and AD casters have options to heal themselves without going back to base?

Deaths dance, botrk, gunblade, bloodthirster, scimitar...All really good items and allow you to stay around in lane/skirmishes/teamfights for a really long time if you are mana based and potentially infinitely if you are not mana based (which doesn't exist for AP champs - so they have to back for mana AND for health). While a yas or zed or riven can stay in lane forever. Teamfight/skirmish coming up? Engage, if your in a bad spot, disengage, kill a few minions or a jungle camp and your back to full health in seconds and can re-engage. Not to mention it being so damned strong during fights themselves.

I get that AP mana casters should be a more intelligent and skillshot based thing, waiting around then bursting hard, but theres much less room for error with wasted mana or bad engages. While AD casters like aatrox, riven, yas, riven, zed, lee etc don't have to worry about mana, and usually not about health either.

I don't even play AP champs but I was just remembering spellvamp ryze and Cass and realized that both in terms of general itemization and for the above mentioned issue AP casters are really forced to build and play in a certain (unforgiving) way while AD champs have many more options.

18 Comments

Myren Quiddle2 votes

Somewhere I agree with you! But I can't help but feel like if AP champions would also heal from damage they do, it'd be really OP (I'm imagining a Veigar ulting someone to get 50% health back). AD champions can heal yeah, but mostly don't have as much CC as AP champions. AD champions (apart from tanks, who mostly don't build lifesteal anyway) are dead quite quick.

I hope it makes sense and helps you a bit in dealing with your issue :)

VolatileAkali1 votes

Akali in 2k19 lul.

Myren Quiddle1 votes

{quoted}

Akali in 2k19 lul.

She is very mobile and has her shroud, but if you get to her (CC/AoE) she is dead rather fast.

Saezio2 votes

She trash now. They deleted her from the game.

VolatileAkali1 votes

You need to know, that some lanes that Akali should win cannot be win now, because of the removed healing. Mobility is good not gonna lie, shroud is a worse version of pre-reworked Akali Shroud. Her damage is good, but no burst and she is called an "Assassin".

0 Hogapu3 votes

I mean, Draven can auto 4 times to get +50%hp anyway..

Alzon2 votes

Your example with Veigar is precisely the reason Riot has used. They don’t like the concept of a universally-available stat providing “burst healing” on top of what an ability already does.

wildfox9T2 votes

Draven / Jhin AA

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

wildfox9T1 votes

but ravenous hunter exist and i've never seen a veigar doing that

also they would be building less defense and/or damage,so i don't see the problem with that

but let's assume that veigar can heal for 50% hp,then his abilities would be on CD so he would stop healing,an AD instead can do the same with few AA but keep doing it as long as he can AA something,much more fair i guess?

about the CCs,AD have more damage with their AAs and usually more damage in their kit

honestly either make lifesteal work only on champions (with the jungler item working also on mosters as unique passive) or give it to everyone

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

Bring back WotA

heroikc2 votes

Blame Vladimir for abusing spell vamp years ago.

Barso551 votes

i guess range, burst and cc is a thing. Many ap spells outrange even cait/lategame trist, have cc, and a full combo does more burst than ranged AD spells/autoattacks. So yeah, its true, ap champs with spellvamp would be op. Didn't think of it that way. Maybe adding a 5% spellvamp on minions/monsters only to some popular ap item might not be the worst thing though. There would be a tradeoff (mana and cooldown for health) but mages wouldn't be forced to back for 2 different reasons (mana and health) as easily while enemy yas/zed/riven/aatrox farms indefinitely in lane.

MiracleMorg941 votes

SV was removed because of Vlad abusing WoTA too much, and I think it was Reporteoir or whatever his name is that literally said they didn't want to spend time on how to fix it so their option was to just remove it.

So lazy -.-

I still think they could've made time to make changes on it instead of throwing out a very fun and unique item.

Saianna1 votes

Riot disliked the idea that mages could potentially heal for 20-30hp per AOE spell, but they don't mind when ADC heals 200-250hp per AA.

Riots reasoning was "akali and vladimir exploit spellvamp too much, so well.. WE HAVE TO remove it from the game"... Soon after vlad and akali get reworked lol.

Oh yeah, worth mentioning that ADs also have spellvamp, deathdance, while mages don't. Fun.

Durzaka1 votes

Its not the healing from AOE that Riot disliked.

its the fact that a majority of mages damage patterns revolves around dropping all of their damage at once. This would result in massive spiking heals with no chance to react to it.

Even a full build ADC doesnt heal that quickly. (doesnt mean their healing isnt insane tho, thats a separate issue that isnt solved by giving AP the same thing).

Saianna1 votes

This could have been fixed so easily. Even the simpliest CD on spellvamp, like once per 5-10s and done fixed. It'd be alot weaker, but mages could at least have the option...

I'm still salty rito did remove spellvamp option, but they don't mind r%%%%%ed healing ADCs have. So god damn unfair.

Drakath20021 votes

Honestly the only mages that could and should benefit form items that can consistently restore their health based on their damage are Battlemages like Swain Malzahar Viktor Taliyah Karthus Anivia AurelionSol Rumble since they have limited range compared to other mages and need to be closer into the enemy lines than other mages

Burst mages and Artilery mages however would be too strong so they should find a way to make it so they don’t benefit as much as the Battle Mages

And although he is a Battle Mage too, Vladimir should get bunched up with the Burst and Artilery mages, or maybe straight up mini rework his passive by adding to it that he can only gain Spell Vamp from runes, not items

The Chillin1 votes

Its because mages do more damage from longer range with lower cds and resource costs without gold, ad needs some way to sustain all that crap mages fling with abandon all game.

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