Why everyone dislikes supports being used on solo lane as full AP champions?

YumaS2Astral··6 votes·951 views

Lulu was controversial in the past due to this, and to some extent, still is. I have just seen a thread where someone suggested Nami having higher AP ratios on her damaging abilities, allowing her to be used as an AP mid laner. Then some peole started to say that this was a bad idea.

I would like to know why everyone hates supports being used as AP champions. I don't personally find supports to be dangerouns even if built full AP. The reason why they are valued at competitive battles is because pro players have enough coordenation to take advantage of AP support's strengths. They can afford to have an AP champion that does less damage and then rely on a teammate such as the ADC to do most of the damage. That's why Lulu is banned often on Worlds.

However, on SoloQ, support mages tend to be not that influential, and sometimes are poor choices when compared to other champions that do more damage. This is because teams lack the coordenation needed to take advantage of a support mage's strengths, and they don't have the damage to compensage that. On SoloQ, damage tends to be better than utility if you want to carry. Of course, having both of them is a lot better, which is why Lulu has been nerfed in the past.

Yesterday I had a battle where I was against an Azir on the middle lane. I was going to pick Malzahar when my teammate suggested a protect composition, relying on Vayne to deal the most damage to the team. Due to this I picked Lulu instead, even knowing that I would be dumpstered in lane. This was a big mistake on my part, since the Vayne on my team was behind because she also got dumpstered in lane. If I picked Malzahar, I would have an easier time in lane and I would have more damage to carry by myself without having to rely too much on Vayne.

Support mages are not that good for SoloQ. They obviously have much more damage than if they were going with a supportive build, but they still don't do more damage than mages that are actually damage oriented. Most of time in SoloQ, you want a champion that can do a lot of damage by himself, that way you can carry if your teammates fall behind. I don't know why people hate support mages, since unless they are overtuned, they don't tend to be monsters that can single handledly carry games, except in the competitive environment.

25 Comments

Sire Hippington7 votes

usually because they have pretty toxic laneing patterns. Lulu is one of the worst champs to lane against, and old soraka also was insnly frustraiting to face. If sona would become viable sololane, her combination of unavoidable poke and sustain would drive her laneopponents crazy. Nami honestly would have a bit potential by buffing the Q ratio, but her W would run into the same probs as sora, and her E is also a strong trading tool that can't really fail. Janna back then her Q had a better ratio, would just sit behind her tower and instaclear any minionwave...

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BFEIuGFw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-19T23:14:41.356+0000)

usually because they have pretty toxic laneing patterns. Lulu is one of the worst champs to lane against, and old soraka also was insnly frustraiting to face. If sona would become viable sololane, her combination of unavoidable poke and sustain would drive her laneopponents crazy. Nami honestly would have a bit potential by buffing the Q ratio, but her W would run into the same probs as sora, and her E is also a sterong trading tool that can't really fail.

I don't have any problems laning against Lulu, usually you will have problems if you don't have a champion that can:

  1. outrange her
  2. stick to her
  3. sustain all her damage
Athenes Lulu1 votes

That's just countering Lulu in general, botlane or solo lanes.

A designated lane bully is meant to be camped anyways.

Ulquiorra9952 votes

Nami has glaring weaknesses that will never make her as frustrating as some of those unless she gets crazily over buffed. If she maxes Q she sacrifices sustain and relies on easily avoidable spell to do damage. If she maxes W to trade she has no wave clear and burns through her mana insanely fast.

Not saying that she is terrible, but she sure won't be too oppressive. And honestly, I prefer landing against solo supports (including old Soraka and AP Janna) than against likes of Leblanc or Yasuo who have a combination of high unavoidable damage and near immunity to champions without ample mobility and PnC damage.

Anu3isII4 votes

Most of the AP supports that are played in a solo lane have tools that can be abused.

The most known cases are:

  1. Janna with her tornadoes(there was no way to push her at that time and her roams were ok to amazing)

  2. Soraka ( heals for days , an easy to stack Mejai , global pressure, targeted silence with no real counter play and many more)

  3. Taric the Gem Mage ( stun , then full combo and heal back , his AP ratios were nerfed to the ground to be sure he will never be a Magical-Paladin again)

  4. Old Karma the Forgotten ( reworked because of the low amount of counter play she had, being more outplayed by her own teammates )

  5. Lulu ( this little yordle seems to be a sniper when she uses her E(on minion)-Q combo in a lane , which is often xD )

Shac Norris3 votes

They nerfed nami because they wanted her to ONLY be a support at the start of s4.

Taric got hit too, except now he can only go fulltank.

Tyren1 votes

I've been playing around with Taric in Twisted Treeline, in the top lane. After frozen gauntlet is complete, he does a pretty decent amount of damage, because of the seen proc and armor it gives him.

He also does pretty well against Darius, and many Ad bruiser/ tank. I can't say for sure about Garen though.

Shac Norris1 votes

Yeah in twisted treeline all supports deal increased damage, since there's no support role...

SEKAI2 votes

There was a time when people hate seeing black/brown people out there making a living by themselves.

I guess that's the same situation here.

PDE5 Inhibitors2 votes

"was"

lel

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BFEIuGFw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-19T23:17:22.877+0000)

"was"

lel

I sometimes like to keep things rated G.

Athenes Lulu2 votes

I don't have a problem with it.

But I do have a problem with making Lulu the only support that can go to both lanes, making her support role obsolete, THEN to have Riot nerf her supporting abilities. Then to have sheep automatically assuming that I'm a "freelo abuser" because nowadays Lulu is a mid/toplaner.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

To be fair, you are a Cancerous Lulu :)

Athenes Lulu1 votes

And surprisingly, I don't mid or top at all.

RedCyclone2 votes

Well I just made a post wondering how Sona players would react to her being intended to go midlane, read into it and you may just think it's a good idea If anyone is interested with my shameless plug - http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Xa8AMTh1-question-for-fellow-sona-mains

Kitten of Evil2 votes

It's because people want a tank on the team but they don't want to be the one tanking, so they will try to make the support do it.

EDIT: Oh I misunderstood. It's because support mages are usually utility mages, and utility is something that doesn't need high ratios or damage. So if the champion also has the potential for damage, it can be unbalanced (like Lulu and Zyra were in the past, and like Tahm Kench probably is now).

Ralanr1 votes

The large amount of CC that has entered midlane?

Idk.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

The large amount of CC that has entered midlane?

Idk.

That, and if Riot finds that the mid build is worth supporting. The support build usually gets shafted. Trying to get

Also in your case, it wasn't that Lulu was bad. (Her utility means she will always be useful,fed or not.) The problem was the Protect the Carry comp. Don't rely on a single damage source. Lulu works best with multiple damage sources since she can turn any one of them into a tank. (The Juggermaw comp)

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I beat a Cho out of lane with Lulu. I have beaten Kat, Anivia, and Akali with Sona mid lane. They do have damage and can be good mid laners. They are just seen as better supports.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

They have a lot of utility, even compared to regular mages.

SpartenA79911 votes

My Zyra build:item 1314 item 3151 item 3285 item 3165 item 2045 item 3157 Late game 50+ minutes, i switch the sightstone for a rabadons and switch sweeper to upgraded trinket

71389310_DEL1 votes

If I remember right Blitzcrank is actually a very nice top-laner. Use your punch to farm minions and hit anybody who tries to get in your face, your grab and movement boost are nice to secure ganks for an incoming jungler and after you finish your first mana item you get tanky enough to out-trade most other top-laners.

Sincarnation1 votes

Only certain ones can be healthy imo.

Lulu needs to have her support ratios gutted. Solo Lane lulu gives way too much safety for a carry late game, while being a lane bully in 80% of matchups so she can reach late game. All she does is W someone and they can't be caught by anything.

AP Janna should be brought back. Give back her waveclear and let her go the way of anivia, unpopular cuz you cant stop baron minions. Her lane isn't really toxic just pretty uninteractive by nature of her kit.

AP Nami, could be a very fair and balanced mid laner. She gets sustain (W) or waveclear (Q) throughout the lane, and neither of them are stellar. Personally think she is really strong with the ult buff doubling her passive a while back.

I'm perfectly ok with never seeing solo lane soraka again

Sona has a toxic kit in solo lane

Bard has too little damage

Zyra/Velkoz are mages still and great mid lane

All the tank supports except braum can solo lane effectively

Croanin1 votes

Often there unbeatable in lane. I mean you look at Lulu, I can't think of many opponents that she can't beat or go even against. It's fine to have safe champions you can bind pick with like Orianna but someone like Lulu guartunee's you'll have a good match up.

Problem with Lulu at the moment though is she's a lack luster support unless overtuned. She is a bit of jack of all trades, and Thresh + Nami do that better because of their hard CC. If you want a poker you can grab Karma or Sona. You want a disengager you grab Janna.

She's an extremely niche support that makes all in comps better due to ulting the engager....but then again, if you want to pick a champ to supplement your engage....just pick Leona.

ChaosReignsDown1 votes

I have played Nami mid a few times, depending on the match up. It's fun, her sustain/poke (w), Extra poke with (e) and cc/damage with (Q) added with her ult.. its very easy for the jg to gank for you bc you boost his speed with a W that also pokes the target if he is in range. Its a fun pick..

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