Riot, face your failures. Recognise they were complete failures, and a lack of respect towards small player bases. And either revert, since they were all better before the reworks, or finish these half assed jobs. It's like for the lore. You can retcon, obviously, but you can't leave Skarner and Rammus in that state for a year and a half.
Leu0733 votesCassiopeia did not even get mana compesation buffs in the preseason like every other mage, lol.
A Miss Fortune17 votesKarma only got the support buffs as well. So bm to everyone who prefers her Mid, Top, or Jg.
Abyssphere7 votes[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4tHvemI,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-10T11:31:50.027+0000)
Karma only got the support buffs as well. So bm to everyone who prefers her Mid, Top, or Jg.
But the buffs supports got were better than the buffs that mages got. Having better mana regen is way, way better than having a slightly bigger mana pool, especially now that Doran's Ring scales off of your base mana regen. Karma and other people like Zyra now get more from Doran's Ring than the vast majority of the mid lane pool (at level 1 they get 4 mana per 5 rather than 3 per 5), and will similarly get more from Grail and Morello than the others.
You should be glad that Karma got the regen buff because it's WAY BIGGER than the base mana buffs given to the traditional solo laners. Mana regen buffs double dip because it improves your base stats -and- what you get from your items. Base mana buffs? Only double dip with Mana Font, and even then the effect is null at level 18 while the regen buff is good at every single level. As someone who plays Zyra mid occasionally, I am very happy that Riot is treating her as a support in this case, because it means she gets a much bigger buff than the people they're treating as mages.
A Miss Fortune2 votesBase mana regen is better for bursty champions who have decent cooldowns and don't spam their abilities. Base mana pool is better for spammy mages. I won't really say Karma is a machine gun like Ryze or Cassiopeia but she definitely needs to use her all of her abilities quite frequently in lane.
Abyssphere4 votes[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4tHvemI,comment-id=0003000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-10T19:31:39.606+0000)
Base mana regen is better for bursty champions who have decent cooldowns and don't spam their abilities. Base mana pool is better for spammy mages. I won't really say Karma is a machine gun like Ryze or Cassiopeia but she definitely needs to use her all of her abilities quite frequently in lane.
No, mana regen is better.
If you get the mage buff you get 50 extra mana. That's it. If you get the support buff you get 2.5 mana per 5 seconds. That's 5 mana per 10 seconds, aka 60 mana over the course of two minutes. If you stay in lane for even two minutes after you first cast a spell, you are getting more from this buff than the people getting base mana pool buffs.
Mana pool only matters if you have a kit that needs to burn huge amounts of mana at one time, to the point that regen cannot possibly keep up. This basically boils down to weirdos like Kassadin with abilities that cost hundreds of mana and people like Anivia where their abilities consistently drain mana. Karma on the other hand is a completely standard mage without excessive mana consumption either via high numbers or consistent drain.
Even if base mana is better than mana regen on a poke mage, it becomes worse when you take into account how it interacts with their itemisation. Karma will get either Morello or Grail, which are both better if your regen is higher. She will also have a Doran's Ring in mid lane, which is better if your regen is higher. Her item in the jungle if she goes there will also be better with higher regen.
There is no way in which she'd be better off with a bigger mana pool than better regen. Same for Zyra. I don't know how I can make that clearer.
The Yetii Rider5 votes[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4tHvemI,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-10T11:31:50.027+0000)
Karma only got the support buffs as well. So bm to everyone who prefers her Mid, Top, or Jg.
Her W works on monsters now. Jungle Karma mains rejoiced.
The Bearded Bard25 votesLeave Karma out of this. Was a Karma main then, am a Karma main now. She's better now than before in every single way. The only thing I miss about old Karma is shield bursting.
A Miss Fortune12 votesShe's sort of better-ish? I
-If she goes to a carry role she relies on mashing R > Q, if she hits a lot of them she does well, if she doesn't hit them she's useless.
-She has a pretty garbage passive that slightly lowers the cooldown on her ult that already has a really low cooldown for auto attacking things. As an AP Mage.
-Her Mantra'd W and E feels lackluster especially in comparison to her Mantra'd Q.
-She's squishy and fairly mana hungry (but all Utility Mages are at least)
Kitten of Evil5 votesI agree, she's better-ish and has a garbage passive, but her Q is very easy to hit (fast projectile speed and detonates when it hits minions). She's a decent kite mage in her current state (every one of her moves can be used to open up space between her and enemies), but she's also pretty monotone now.
A Miss Fortune2 votesMy only issue is that the radius where she hits a target isn't that big and It's SO easy to judge simply hide behind minions and ruins her laning phase. I think if they simply made the radius of her Q bigger WHEN she hits something she would be such a great champion. Or just rework her like everyone wants so that her Mantra is relevant outside of bursting people down.
Joquan1 votesIf you don't like her, then don't play her.
I find her fun to play.
A Miss Fortune3 votesOh I'm not saying she's unfun, personally I find champions like Yasuo, Katarina, Zed, etc really boring and champions like Karma fun, but I feel like she was significantly more fun pre-rework. I actually never played her pre-rework but it seems like not only was she in a more viable state but she was more fun and the bad from good Karma players were VERY easy to tell apart.
The Bearded Bard2 votesI disagree.
The passive is actually very good, imo it just needs some tweaks so that shielding allies (not minions or Karma) decreases the cd as well. The passive is what allows you to use your ult multiple times in a fight. As it is right now, late game if she hits 5 people with her ulted Q in a teamfight, her ult cd goes by 15 seconds per part of Q hit. If you hit both parts of the Q on 5 people your ult is already back up and you can use it again immediately. During lane, you use your autos to harass and lower the cd on your ult so you can use it more often.
When she goes carry role, she's a utility support on top of a carry. She kites, she provides ms and shields, and she typically shuts down most top laners. Carry Karma is all about forcing the enemy team into fights they can't win, and poking when the enemy team refuses to fight.
Her mantra'd W is what makes her so deceptively hard to kill in 1v1s. If you use it right, that thing's going to heal you for over half of your health and snare them for a total of 3.25 seconds. Sure, it doesn't increase your damage directly, but with the extra snare time you'll land more Q's and take less damage. It's not meant to do more damage, it's meant to provide more sustain and cc. Same with the E, massive shield for your entire team and a movement increase. Again, not meant to do damage so it feels lackluster, but it's not. Q is for damage, W is for sustain and cc, E is for utility. It's a choice every time you ult. I'm sure you can get by just picking Q every single time, but know that you're not a good karma player if you do that. You're wasting her potential.
And finally, squishy and mana hungry. Have you ever played Karma? This one statement makes me think that you haven't. She's got a massive shield that gives ms, a Q that slows aoe, a W that snares and heals her for 40% of her health, base. Not only that, but her core items are liandrys and rylais. She's definitely not as squishy as she seems. As for mana costs, I get by building only morellos just fine. Just need to learn how to conserve your mana.
Hyrum Graff3 votes[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4tHvemI,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-10T11:36:06.623+0000)
-Her Mantra'd W and E feels lackluster especially in comparison to her Mantra'd Q.
You, sir, have not played tank karma.
SpinnerMask4 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4tHvemI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-10T07:42:17.541+0000)
Leave Karma out of this. Was a Karma main then, am a Karma main now. She's better now than before in every single way. The only thing I miss about old Karma is shield bursting.
What about her fans? Not people, i mean her literal fans. I also liked her design better, elegeant peaceful duchess. black and white, very nice look to me.
RisenDarkKnight8 votesOh god. Rammus' "lore."
AquariusGine8 votesI am not a Karma main, but her old abilities look so much more interesting!!!
AhhShucks7 votesI like the new Karma, I just miss shield bombing. That part was great. It got neutered in the rework, then finally removed.
Teslablade5 votesI never got to play old Karma, but the current one has always been a strong pick, imo. She has so much damage and utility.
EmittingXs2 votesI agree. I love going into a lane against a tanky support cause I know she'll help me dominate over them. She's such a strong pick against tanks, well in my hands anyway. She has the poke, the shield, the plays, she's really versatile and makes games a lot of fun. Plus she can hit hard without really needing to a lot of AP. Personally I think she's in a great position at the moment without being broken or half baked. But old time players will highly disagree~
Penguin Eclipse4 votesI am going to guess the person who worked on Cassiopeia's rework is no longer with the company. I am not aware that we have heard a word from him since his absolutely terrible rework.
If you look at the threads posted here over the last 48 hours it is pretty clear why Sona is the way she is and why she is probably going to be that way for a while.
Morde is a mess.
Photos of Ghosts19 votesRiot Stashu, responsible for the Fiora rework. Now don't get me wrong, Fiora is much better now, just overpowered in numbers. However, he disappeared without giving the post rework support he had promised, and one year layer we see him again like nothing ever happened.
only zhule2 votes[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4tHvemI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-10T07:47:14.555+0000)
I am going to guess the person who worked on Cassiopeia's rework is no longer with the company. I am not aware that we have heard a word from him since his absolutely terrible rework.
If you look at the threads posted here over the last 48 hours it is pretty clear why Sona is the way she is and why she is probably going to be that way for a while.
Morde is a mess.
I don't think Sona is in a good place. Not like total revert/rework bad but needs some serious passive bonuses. A squishy front line support is and always has been a bad idea. Coupled with her HORRIBLE movement speed/ lack of mobility, and you have a champion that just needs some serious quality of life buffs.
I'm willing to see how a patch or two of the new stuff affects her, but if we don't see a serious power boost. I really think she needs some power up. Like 50% more aura range, a third spell that does better then +1% per rank, and some serious looking at why she moves like a box of rocks even with a ton of bonus movement speed (
and i still can't outrun 85%+ of champions.) .
FlashnFuse4 votesLong Post warning! Microsoft Word tells me it’s over 1500 words long
Let me preface this by saying Rito is way too busy doing marksmen and AD item changes to make any serious changes to other champions right now; however that doesn't mean we can't get the ball rolling. Also, while I’ve done some research into old Karma (a champion released far beyond her time), all of my firsthand experience is on “relaunch” Karma. Still though, here are my thoughts on bringing Karma up to scratch, combining the new and old to make one cohesive kit. Please note that it would be absolutely resource intensive to make all the changes I’m proposing below at once, I just want to open up some good old-fashioned discussion.
https://youtu.be/clMEu39Iydc Here’s the release Karma champion spotlight, watching it could help give you some context, but I’ve done my best to summarize old and current Karma below.
TL;DR/DW I’ve only played post rework Karma so I don’t have first-hand experience with pre-rework karma
Passive “Gathering Fire” reduces the cooldown on “R-Mantra”. Her old passive would increase her AP by an amount based on her missing health. While her new passive is not especially exciting, her old passive was just a big ball of stats (a passive style I’m not a fan of). Beyond that I feel that the spirit of that power (a heal that increases based on missing health) is somewhat preserved through the Mantra-W, a power I want to see increased.
TL;DR The passive is pretty okay in my opinion, we just need to touch up some other areas so that Mantra actually feels powerful.
Q-Inner Flame and Heavenly Wave. Karma’s old Q was a conic AOE spell, with the Mantra Q also healing allies in the cone. Some of Rito’s older champions really enjoyed small AOE heals (Ezreal’s W used to heal allies too). While I like the mechanics of a cone spell, at this point in time changing her Q back to a cone would take way too many resources (art, sound effects, yeesh) and I personally like the longer range missile. At any rate, this is a nice spell that could maybe use a better AP ratio, or more damage from the first hit of its Mantra version. I’m also partial to a version of Mantra where each rank in your ultimate increases the power of your empowered spells in a non-numbers fashion. Specifically each rank of R should increase the explosion radius of Q and its secondary detonation field, OR decrease the delay before Q explodes. Beyond that, my suggestion is to move the slow down/speed up effects from Q and E back onto W so we should remove the slow from Q.
**TL;DR Changing Q to a cone may take too many resources to realistically pull off, this spell could possibly use more damage. Also move the slow back to W **
R- Mantra. The release Karma Mantra didn’t level up and Karma’s QWE had 6 ranks like Jayce’s current ultimate and skills. It also held 2 charges instead of 1. I think it was way ahead of its time when it came out, and it’s one spell that I think should be dialed back towards its original style a bit.
TL;DR A bunch of functional changes but ultimately the same spell. Add a charge system back to Mantra’s level 11/16 level ups. I propose an idea where we increase Mantra’s “effectiveness” without increasing raw numbers”
E-Inspire/Defiance and Soul Shield. This spell didn’t change a lot from release to relaunch. The movement speed bonus was new, but functionally very little changed until they got rid of Defiance’s AOE damage in patch 5.10. Moreover, losing the damage on her shield shoved her poor mage/poor support kit further into the niche of “mage that doesn’t do any damage” and “support that nobody wants to play”. I like the AOE shield, and I completely agree that an AOE shield shouldn’t have AOE damage attached to it. So here comes one of my favorite Riot sayings: Meaningful Choices. Do you want to shield your team mates for this fight? Or do you want to explode your enemies?
TL;DR Make E capable of targeting/damaging enemies. Mantra E used offensively damages enemies in a burst, while Mantra E used on allies is still a shield, but no movespeed. This gives the spell “Meaningful choices”.
W-Focused Resolve/Renewal and Spirit Bond. **This is a spell that I think should be reverted mostly to its old functionality. **A spell way ahead of its time: Karma creates a tether between herself and another unit (or ward). Any “allied anchors” are sped up and any “enemy anchors” are slowed down. The tether also damages and slows any enemies hit by the beam, while speeding up allies. The Mantra’d version doubles the speed up and slow down on allies and enemies, while rooting the primary target (if it’s an enemy). The leash lasts for 5 seconds. I love the original incarnation of this spell and its potential application in a teamfight. It, like most of Karma’s old spells, was considered far too confusing to keep around. I agree with that assessment: Karma was confusing and incredibly far ahead of her time in a lot of the mechanics she employed. However, the atmosphere has changed significantly. Nowadays we have champions like Bard, who play with very unique spells with very unique rules. We have champions that have 2 part passives or an active and a passive component on spells. I believe that Karma was too confusing on release, due to how new the game was and how different her mechanics were; but I no longer believe that is the case.
TL;DR Revert this spell most of the way back to its release functionality as the game’s landscape has changed significantly since release. The tether heals friendly units based on their missing health. The tether is something Karma’s allies will love and Karma’s enemies will strive to avoid.
I hope you’ve enjoyed reading my Karma re-rework suggestions. I believe she is in a very poor place right now and I think we can fix that. I believe we should move the slow/speed up from Q and E to W, making that the ultimate “support karma” spell. Multiple charges on Mantra will give Karma some of that late game effectiveness that she sorely lacks right now, while making a damaging version of E will both help Karma’s passive and give Karma a meaningful choice beyond “Oh we’re fighting, I guess I should shield now?”
Photos of Ghosts3 votesCan I suggest to make a post out of this?
IGotScuttleCrabs4 votesJust started reading. Wanna make a few comments as I main Karma, mostly mid. Only S1 but I feel I have a good grasp on her.
First, passive is ok as is. Although yea, it is weird putting a cd passive on a champ that wants to reach max cdr.
Q: NO. No more damage. Mid Karma hits like a truck with a mantra Q. I've taken squishes to 10% with one hit. My build is typically 
and runes/masteries takes me to 40% cdr.
Adding any more damage to this will one shot any immobile squishy that can't get away from the second explosion. And if she roots first, you got yourself a kill.
Now IF I were to change this spell, I'd agree on the quicker second blast as Mantra ranks up. But overall I think Q is fine. It's her main damage skill and does it VERY WELL.
I agree with your comment on bringing her old W somewhat back. I'd love to be able to tether an ally to heal them someway. Whether it's at the expense of mana, my hp, or some team effort.
Her E. Well it's a shield. With a move speed buff. I miss the old shield bomb. We all do.
K now onto my ideas for change.
Keep everything but the passive. Lower cooldowns a bit to compensate. Change passive to something that promotes her to use something other than Mantra Q 75% of the time.
Spells now work with each other depending on how you use them. (Think Syndra smacking her spheres to extend range on stun. Or Jayce Q through his gate.)
Using RQ on a tethered enemy causes root to go immediately. Using RW with shield on yourself gives bonus heal. Shield on ally splits HP between you. Just 2 examples but you get the idea.
AvatarRoku222 votesIt's her main damage skill and does it VERY WELL.
its her ONLY damage skill so it better do very well
koager2 votesI do miss her old W tether to help speed up allies or just run around and trying to lariat people with it. Although if it's reverted back I will also miss how powerful the root on it is right now on it. I basically force people burn flash to break to tether is they don't have an inherent dash skill.
IAMS4T4N4 votesstop trying to get sona superbuffed
only zhule3 votesstop trying to get sona superbuffed
What super buffs? You mean enough power that she is playable in a meta dominated by tanks? Perhaps you are referring to the utility buffs that most sona players want. You know the things where her damage doesn't go up but you support skills aren't garbage outside of the super late game?
A Liberal4 votesSona is fine please move on. My only complaint is that the hight of her skillcap is learning how to manage her passive, which takes all of three games. Karma is a train wreck, as is Mordekaiser. As for Cass, She has a lot of issues and the rework really screwed her on the whole "Posion Mage/Not-a-lane-bully" thing, but shes still okay to play. I've never played her but one of my friends is a Cass main and she seems to get along just fine.
Yrzen3 votesI fail to see what makes Sona alright.
Her damage is fine, but not when you consider how low the range is since she needs to get an auto off. If you forego the auto, the damage is no longer fine.
Her heal is one of the weakest in the game, and the shield is laughably unusable.
Her E is mostly to access the only non-ultimate cc in her entire kit, as it's not very impactful at all until level 18 rank 5.
She has more mana problems than any champion I have ever played.
Overall I fail to see the benefit to using her over Bard or Nami anymore, which is kind of sad.
IGotScuttleCrabs3 votesGotta agree. Nani and Bard both fill a very similar roll to Sona (poke, heal, cc) and both do it better imo. Sona is annoying early game if she gets 2+ empowered Qs off on you but come mid game, just blow her up and move on to the adc.
Yrzen4 votesFunny thing is...
Level 2 Sona Q is 40+20 damage, +20 with power chord, and +8 and 8% with staccato power chord. AD of 52 and 50+20+20+8 AP scaling. 20 AP from runes and Spellthief's 52 Physical+108 Magic+10 damage from spellthief's
Level 2 Bard Q is 80 damage, and meeps do 30 more damage. AD of 54 and 65+30 AP scaling, 20 AP from runes and spellthief's 54 Physical+129 Magic+15 damage from spellthief's
Level 9 Sona Q is 200+70 damage, +82 with power chord, and +33 and 8% with staccato power chord. AD of 70 and 50+20+20+8 AP scaling. 65 AP from runes and frost queen's claim 70 Physical+449 Magic+30 damage from frost queen's It's mid game and we'll allow Bard his two meeps, so we'll pretend it's possible to get a Sona's ally to make use of her Q. Since we're trying to measure Sona's power and not theirs, we'll use Sona's AD. 140 Physical+532 magic+30 damage from frost queen's
Level 9 Bard Q is 260 damage, and meeps, with 20 chimes, do 80 damage. His meep stock limit has increased, so he can use them twice now. AD of 72 and 65+30+30 AP scaling. 65 AP from runes and frost queen's claim 142 Physical+501 magic+45 damage from frost queen's
Gee, I guess I was wrong. That extra 14 damage sure makes up for Sona having lower AP scaling, needing to have a coordinating ally, having lower defenses, lower health, lower movement speed, not having any slows where Bard can stun two people AND slow people by the same comparisons, less safety in poking because of that combined with the lower range on her Q, worse heals, worse movement abilities, and an objectively worse ultimate.
But at least Sona gets a shield guysss.
A shield that lasts for 1.5 seconds and forces you to plan to take damage in order to heal.
I'm sorry, I just can't contain all this salt.
7Artemis74 votesI main both New Karma and New Sona -- I have Rank 5 masteries for both, and they're both in my top 3. I've played all 4 of these champions post-rework, but only Mordekaiser pre-rework. I'm expecting some downvotes, but here's my perspective:
Karma is, in her current state, both healthy and fun to play. Her main problem is that she occupies a very similar niche to Lulu, who can do most of what Karma does better, which is why Karma has such a low play rate (0.3% from the site I'm looking at). I think some minor adjustments are definitely necessary to give more distinct reasons to play her, as well as changes to help her solo laning. I don't think a flat-out revert of her rework is the answer, though. Old Karma's duality-themed kit seems pretty interesting, but Karma's new kit doesn't have enough problems to warrant removing it entirely. A few months back, I saw a boards discussion about re-releasing an updated version of Old Karma as a new champion, which I think would make the greatest number of people happy, but I have doubts about whether Riot would realistically consider this.
Sona is, in her current state, a little bit weak. I feel like she could use some _slight _ numbers buffs, but shouldn't be overbuffed to the point she becomes broken, because if that happens Riot will then gut her. From where I am in lower Elo, Sona is definitely a viable pick. Her main problem lies in the fact that her kit is easy with very little counterplay. If she gets too much of a numbers buff for low Elo, she'd become overpowering in high Elo. This would not be changed by reverting her rework. I have no strong feelings one way or another for temporary vs. permanent aura for her skills, but I feel like the temporary aura is easier for Riot to balance and thus will probably stay as is.
Now, this is where my level of experience with these champions goes down.
I don't feel like I can say much about Cass, considering that I've played her maybe 3 times total, all post-rework. What is indisputable is that she has a low play rate and an even lower win rate, and she desperately needs changes. I'll leave it to the Cass mains to say what kinds of changes they'd like to see for her.
In my opinion, Mordekaiser does need to be reverted. Post-rework, his solo lane is nearly unplayable, he's broken, and he's unfun to play against. He had problems pre-rework, but now he's worse. I'm sure everyone saw his pick/ban rate at Worlds, and anyone who visits the boards with any regularity has seen the Mordekaiser mains begging Riot to fix him. What Mordekaiser needs is for his rework to be reverted and for Riot to work with his mains to make a better one.
TL;DR: Karma and Sona are alright, Cass and Mord have serious issues.
only zhule3 votesI have to disagree with you on Sona. She has a lot of potential to be fine. But when you have other champions who do her job better 95% of the time, she stops being viable. Why play a champion X when you can play champion Y who does all the same stuff but better.
I honestly think it would be pretty easy to fix her. make the aura's about 50% bigger (525 is not a huge range but its enough you can do your job without super pile ups/ running around like a headless chicken), Make the bonuses last longer. A damage boost that lasts 4 seconds is not unheard of, a shield lasting 3 seconds isn't crazy. So why is Sona expected to work when her abilities last such short periods of time? Lower the base mana cost of her heal, but raise the amount per level. a heal should never cost more then the amount healed. And finally make her freaking faster. You can not have a champion be super fragile, lack a gap closer, and only have their ultimate as a means to engage/disengage.
People claim she lacks counter play. I don't see it. It's basically like complaining that 
does too much damage because you let her keep landing Q's and auto attacks on you without fighting back. Sona really doesn't do that much damage until you manage to build a ton of bonus AP and artifical enhancers like . Even when she lands a full combo it's not all that impressive when you consider that she's not doing 50% or more of your health, she can't do it again quickly without running out of mana SUPER quick, and if you trade even a bit Sona is going to lose (no mana and a moderate damage taken will drive her out of lane and you are still rocking 35% or more of your total health.
TwitchInMyPants4 votesKarma is doing well and Sona is only below par because her numbers got nerfed. Just because they're not totally balanced doesn't mean you can compare it to the trashbins that the Cass & Morde reworks are.
KoKoboto4 votesWe probably won't be getting for awhile as well because Riot is focused on "new-content" atm, at least they're fixing up Poppy and Taric which I am excited for But honestly they needed to address these champions issues a lot earlier ESPECIALLY Mordekaiser, hes been a STAPLE pick all throughout worlds even though hes fucking stupid ridiculous and his dragon is a bitch control along with his ghost (I dont even know the fuck why Riot wouldn't fix these first) honestly what the fukfkcking fuck, I love Mordekaiser hes a main but they need to fix it so he just isn't a walking gimic 3 hit dead don't go into melee range EVER
IxtaliKing3 votesI'm a fairly recent Karma main and although I know she CAN be strong, her kit feels very unreliable compared to other champs. Even though I really like Karma I'm not confident that taking her into ranked match is a good idea in most cases. I'd say Karma needs a gameplay update to give her a solid place as a Mage/support.
gg git diff3 votesUm, what? Aside from Mordekaiser, these champions are all better off from their reworks. Even if they aren’t very good now, they were worse before.
only zhule3 votesNo. Sona is horrible now. Less safe, more mana hungry, less utility, worse cooldowns, no pushing pressure, a bunch of your power locked behind your ultimate. All of this for a small damage bonus assuming you auto attack after each cast of Q.
gg git diff1 votesAnd before she just kinda stood around and gave her allies ambiguously-ranged auras.
only zhule3 votesAnd before she just kinda stood around and gave her allies ambiguously-ranged auras.
This is true. And it was a huge issue to play against her because of it. That is why i would love to see her pre rework and post rework fused. Imagine aura's that provide constant buffs but have set time limits to them (even with bonus time added per ally tagged). Higher range then her current aura's but not that 1000 range "LOL you can't ever touch me" BS that she use to have.
Each ability has a very clear and powerful skill, Q gives your team a few seconds to just beat on the enemy team super hard. W can be used to soften the blow of a team fight OR heal up after a bad bit of damage (thinking either an aura that negates a % of damage or a mini Janna ult that pulses out healing every second or so). E could give flat movement speed bonuses for a more prolonged period of time, no perma +20 MS, but also no more 14% bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds on a 12 second base cooldown. The auras fall off instantly if Sona is stunned/silenced/ or switches spells.
It would likely mean an increase in her cooldowns. But i know i would gladly trade a chunk of my personal offensive power & "LCS Big play" one time use large buffs on super short duration, for some legit aura usage and power windows.
Rico Nasty3 votesPeople need to stop complaining about Karma, she's just fine, I main her for god's sake..
ARequestOfDeath2 votesi prefer new karma
new sona is much easier to tell if your in range of her abilities passives
cassiopiea is just weak now so yea ruined
mordekaiser was op because the community asked for him to be op
Raid Boss Morde5 votesNo one asked Mordekaiser to be OP... we never even asked for a rework... also, no one EVER complained that Mordekaiser needed a rework! We all knew he could use one, but it wasn't necessary, unlike Ryze (after his many reworks).
Stars Shaper3 votesWe asked Mordekaiser to be more tanky and have constant damage/drain rather than high damage.
We got a oneshotting-dragonghost machine.
Xonra2 votesKarma was actually okay. The problem wasn't her rework, it was the fact that Riot couldn't stop pressing the nerf button. Honestly as much as I hate the Sona changes, if they had stopped nerfing her over and over and over and over again, she would have been in an okay place as well.
Morde I'm on the fence about until the preseason changes hit live (but I still don't get the point of changing him like they did).
Cass was and is a joke of a rework that will never work without some buffs they won't give her. She was okay for a bit because she was overbuffed. She is bad now because they basically reverted those buffs, then nerfed her.
Mathbalnase4 votesCass was and is a joke of a rework that will never work without some buffs they won't give her. She was okay for a bit because she was overbuffed. She is bad now because they basically reverted those buffs, then nerfed her.
Cass' primary problem is not her (substantial) nerfs. Cass' primary problem cannot be solved with buffs.
Pommi1 voteskarma is not a failure she is a strong and independent woman who doesn't need no buffs 
fave champ :<<<<<<<<<<<