Damage is at an all time high. When I went into season 7 I was excited because it seemed like a lot of the old damage creep was being removed by the talent tree. Then we came into season 7 and damage was through the frigging roof to the place where it had to get nerfed. Something needs to be done.
Ben SwoIo33 votesNothing will be done. I seriously think Riot doesn't give a shit anymore. How long has 
gone un-checked? They take SO LONG to make any pathetic attempt at addressing any problem.......only to give us some shit like -5 ms. Shit is FRUSTRATING.
Bμbble Butt9 votesI honestly don't understand why you were downvoted. Everyone here is thinking the way you are, I honestly think it is just the way you said it. I think you are completely right. We have been complaining the whole season, but they only respond at the end of the season.
So why are you downvoted again?
My Waifu Vanilla4 votesBecause his post doesn't make sense. Viktor was strong for LITERALLY 1 patch in solo queue before getting looked at for nerfs. 14 days. "unchecked tho"
Bμbble Butt7 votesSo Graves, Lucian, Irelia, Jax, and Leblanc were wrong? He made 4 errors but for the most part he's on the right track.
Kassadin has always been broken but they tuned him to where he actually needs to level his ult (then they buffed his ult so it is like a free flash all game now)
Akali was bad till after rework
Lucian was forced top because of adc item changes with stat changes (by top i mean S tier)
And Viktor got fixed to fast
All in all he is on the right track.
Akali still not fixed even though constant bitching abnout shroud.
Lucian did receive nerfs but it honestly wouldn't matter cause he blows up like anyone else
Viktor fixed
and Kassadin was a fuck up on riots part (like always) with no explanation (like always)
Cut the guy some slack 'My Waifu Vanilla'
5 Star Support2 votesAn Irelia that is slightly fed and gets a bigger lead is pretty much a buffed Garen. She is insane if she goes unchecked. Even then, going even with her isn't enough sometimes depending on their skill level.
Gilgayu1 votesNothing will be done. I seriously think Riot doesn't give a shit anymore. How long has
Graves, Irelia, LB, and Akali got nerfed slightly. Kass nerfed due to nerf to fleet footwork as for jax, lucian, and viktor... I guess we can only hope season 9 will be different
Cloud27323 votesBut then there wouldn't be as many LC$BIGPLAY$ so Riot won't do that.
TKM Axe14 votessounds like a good idea, but they should also nerf alot of the items
hewhodoesnotcare10 votes1 more "damage is too high" crying post
Ben SwoIo32 votes1 more "damage is too high" crying post
Maybe Riot should do something about it then.
hewhodoesnotcare6 votesMaybe Riot should do something about it then.
and then ppl are gonna complain about tanks op. then adc op. the jungle op. then how adc nerf op. Stop complaining and just play the game.
AugustHeatHaze14 votesyea people always complain about something and riot cant listen and implement everything.
Bμbble Butt1 votestypo. last word you meant to type 'anything'. not trying to go all grammar naxi on you. ;)
Neptunia xoxo14 votesand then ppl are gonna complain about tanks op. then adc op. the jungle op. then how adc nerf op. Stop complaining and just play the game.
Yeah! Lets ignore all the balance issues and just deal with the game being in a bad state guys! Legit why do you even try?
saltran1 votesLets ignore the Gameplay Boards, yes, this but unironically.
GayFluffyUnicorn7 votesI mean we could also listen to reddit oh wait they never talk about anything cuz it is heavily censored. So where else do you go? Reddit just rides riots dick and is a massive propaganda machine as witnessed with the release of KDA. 5 pages of KDA related stuff no matter how shit the game is right now.
saltran2 votesOh cmon Reddit is censored but not on the balance topics, we've had times when the sub was filled with Hashinshin esque threads crying about how weak toplane is, we also had it full of adc complains/ppl defending the post 8.11 meta etc
If right now Reddit isn't crying about balance it's not because the mods are censoring it, it's because their complains about the meta are not huge and it leads into less complains.
Spank the Fox8 votesWe spent years nerfing good champions under Morello.
Same result - champions underused suddenly became the new OP.
Bμbble Butt9 votesThe difference was those new OP's didn't just one shot everything. :/
Spank the Fox2 votesNerfing good champions isn’t going to undo the one shot meta
Giving us back our resistances and nerfing damage Keystones will help. No need to blanket nerf strong champions
AugustHeatHaze6 votesthen you just get the opposite problem... the solution isn't to only buff or only nerf... its to do both though I do think buffing is better than nerfing.
anyway have you seen this video?
Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY
Buffing is better than nerfing but it has to be the right kind of buffs or changes in general and if there are nerfs they should be the right kind of nerfs
floo33 votesSure it needs a right mix of both. But pure damage buffs in exchange for utility isn't what Riot should consider these days.
TwitchInMyPants9 votesthen you just get the opposite problem... the solution isn't to only buff or only nerf... its to do both though I do think buffing is better than nerfing.
anyway have you seen this video?
Analysis: Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY
Buffing is better than nerfing but it has to be the right kind of buffs or changes in general and if there are nerfs they should be the right kind of nerfs
I think you've missed a lot of the point of that video when you're concluding buffing is better than nerfing in League's case. I'll go ahead and steal a quote from that video for ya.
3:44 - "The reason why rainbow edition was so interesting and influential wasn't just because they made everyone do more damage and move faster, it was because they gave the characters new abilities and new options."
This is the current dilemma we're facing. It always feels better to buff than nerf... except when the game has degenerated because there's a refusal to nerf. The pace of the game is getting faster and faster and it's actually eliminating options, burst is becoming more and more relevant and dps and durability is becoming less and less. When characters die in .5-2s in solo fights, tactical diversity starts to falter. When the game's design was based around longer fights, you homogenize everyone if you focus on catching up champions who aren't at the power level of the most powerful champion.
You're right to say both are necessary, but right now nerfing is more needed than buffs. We literally had a patch that gave every champion base stats as a compensation for removing runes, yet we get to still have bonuses from your page choice as well as more powerful keystones than ever. Every single champion in the game was given big buffs. Yet a lot of characters feel bad to play in this state of the game because other characters are using these tools much better and are meant to be used in environments where they need longer fights. Sure you could just make everyone explosive, but that also just makes every character effectively the same. And as Core-A-Gaming pointed out, Street Fighter Rainbow is a dumb game for it even if you could have silly fun with it.
AugustHeatHaze3 votesI think you've missed a lot of the point of that video when you're concluding buffing is better than nerfing in League's case. I'll go ahead and steal a quote from that video for ya.
3:44 - "The reason why rainbow edition was so interesting and influential wasn't just because they made everyone do more damage and move faster, it was because they gave the characters new abilities and new options."
right so I think we shouldn't be buffing just damage but give new interesting mechanics or buffing to give more options, the right sort of buffs and the right sort of nerfs, im just not down with the knee jerk "nerf everything", there is zero nuance to that which is why fans of games are trash at balancing games as a hivemind.
This is the current dilemma we're facing. It always feels better to buff than nerf... except when the game has degenerated because there's a refusal to nerf. The pace of the game is getting faster and faster and it's actually eliminating options, burst is becoming more and more relevant and dps and durability is becoming less and less. When characters die in .5-2s in solo fights, tactical diversity starts to falter. When the game's design was based around longer fights, you homogenize everyone if you focus on catching up champions who aren't at the power level of the most powerful champion.
Id love nerfs that give us more options and I hope riot does that, however is simply nerfing champions the way to do that? Maybe we need to reduce damage overall and then go from there. In my experience with overwatch over nerfing and seemingly listening too much to the whims of the forums made the pool of available heros smaller and smaller so basically I want to avoid that.
You're right to say both are necessary, but right now nerfing is more needed than buffs. We literally had a patch that gave every champion base stats as a compensation for removing runes, yet we get to still have bonuses from your page choice as well as more powerful keystones than ever. Every single champion in the game was given big buffs. Yet a lot of characters feel bad to play in this state of the game because other characters are using these tools much better and are meant to be used in environments where they need longer fights. Sure you could just make everyone explosive, but that also just makes every character effectively the same. And as Core-A-Gaming pointed out, Street Fighter Rainbow is a dumb game for it even if you could have silly fun with it.
I would love the game to slow down and for teamfights to last longer I just want to be careful about nerfing and keep in mind that we do actually need to have a balance between buffing and nerfing.
TwitchInMyPants1 votes...
Id love nerfs that give us more options and I hope riot does that, however is simply nerfing champions the way to do that? Maybe we need to reduce damage overall and then go from there. In my experience with overwatch over nerfing and seemingly listening too much to the whims of the forums made the pool of available heros smaller and smaller so basically I want to avoid that.
Personally IMO, simply nerfing champions isn't going to do that but reworks meant to cut and replace power have worked in the past for oppressive champs. Sometimes its a total flop like with LB and they need a better answer, but it can be a good solution. Typically though nerfs don't add options unless its removing a degenerate strategy that makes the other options of a kit stronger. And I think power adjustments aren't the best type of nerf, but for the type of game League is we need to have plenty of those. We're at 140+ champs and Riot has stated before they'd be ok with having 150-250 champs.
Fighting game comparisons break down when none of those games have rosters like this and even if they did they aren't also dealing with an item system and teams of characters fighting at the same time. Sometimes just cutting back on a champ's main strength or highlighting their weaknesses is all you need and simply cutting back will open up new counterplay in plenty of matchups... assuming its not something incredibly insignificant. I think with the current state of the game, enough champions are bullying others out of viability to where simply cutting back more often means new matchups will arise and that in itself will create more diversity and variety.
I just don't want Riot employing old tactics like they did with Eve and Olaf, there is not a single champion in the game degenerate enough to justify cutting back on literally every aspect of their kit. Kalista is probably the most recent example and she would've benefitted from a mini rework IMO, her passive and infinite E stacking really limit how much power she's allowed to have and focusing more on one and creating gameplay around that could make her more engaging rather than a champion who is either useless or so oppressive you can't do anything. Eve and Olaf needed their own reworks to be fair but leaving them just below average is all you need to do to prevent their kits from affecting the game negatively while letting them keep their strengths.
AugustHeatHaze1 votesi agree with all of that i just wish you would stop calling things degenerate
TwitchInMyPants1 votesi agree with all of that i just wish you would stop calling things degenerate
Been watching a lot of Smash stuff and its a term thrown around a lot for playstyles they make rules around
And frankly it makes more sense than just calling things toxic. Because people have called things like Yasuo or Kalista toxic because if you're in the wrong matchup you are effectively hard countered and there's not much tactical depth other than don't die and hope your team can help you in fights. Toxic implies its all bad and their styles are poison where as degenerate is specifically talking about parts of the game breaking down. I don't think describing the effect as toxic is entirely accurate when the same kit could feel more fair with a different balance.
Irelia at Worlds I think is a good example of causing degeneration in the solo lanes since tons of strategies that'd normally work stop working when the meta starts building up around her. Could also mention Aatrox for that. There's always going to be a meta but when strategies are dying on the vine its really bad.
AugustHeatHaze1 votesits just that it has connotations
Hügö6 votesIt highly depends on what kind of game you want. Want a more action oriented game buffing is the way to go. Want a slower game which is decided by decision making nerfing is the way to go.
AugustHeatHaze5 votestrue
Frost Hellfire5 votesheh, anal.
Raquan4 votesIt's possible to do both.
Politur grime4 votesTrue words and the only option imo. But reworks and new champs like in 2018 show us the way riot wants the game to develope.
Kárma4 votesRIOT forces you to play a specific meta that's why you see almost same champions in every game.
l MrD l3 votesI remember when jax was a duelist now hes basically tibbers. ..... dives in... stuns people ... You die...
i remember them saying recently they like how the pro meta was at worlds with the fact that theres more early game champions but ermm late game champs? i like the slow stratgetic style of league not the kill befor eyou die version ...... Season 9 i thoguht with old stystem of runes and masteries returning would be the start of something good but im seeing changes to tank ... removing utility in favour of damage? like just why ._____.
im up for nerfing the strong i really am but i would like to see that one forgotten champ buffed when needed or fixed looks at a kalista amongst a few
Unemployed Ninja2 votesI haven't posted in a long time, but this is something I wanted to chime in on as a long time on and off player since before season 1 (November, 09).
Disclaimer: I am not good, I make no arguments that I might be good, this is merely based on observation, not opinion.
This is not the first time people have clamored that damage was too high, or to stop buffing people and start nerfing them. This has been a flip-flopping issue since the inception of LoL (Who remembers the terror of 09 Twitch?), nor would it be the first time that the opposite is true. In fact, we're in this current state because of the opposite. Is our memory so short that we don't remember having to build atmogs on everyone and their mother?, or tanky brand? The times when % damage and true damage were the only useful damages because everyone was so tanky that not even assassins could 100-0 an ADC.
I'm not arguing that you're wrong, or that league is in a healthy state. I'm just stating that this feels a lot like a repeat of the past 9 seasons.
Disclaimer: I am not good, I make no arguments that I might be good, the following is based on the opinions of a nobody.
My opinion is that the same issues we've always had are still the issues we face today. The lines between roles are too blurry. Tanks deal too much damage, they should be CC machines, but they should never come out on top in a 1v1 against a DPS.
DPS/assassins should not have survivability let their survivability rely on the support. why does banshees and GA exist in their current state? Why can everyone and their mother blink, dash, leap, jump, hop, skip, and vault over the nearest wall?
Scale defense on tanks harder and tone down their damage, make defensive stats less effective on damage based champions (this can be done by dramatic base stat tweaks with % stat increases on items, or any other number of ways), give bruisers poor scaling, but high base damages, with defensive stats that sit in the middle, etc. It doesn't feel that complicated. The most complicated part would be the overhaul needed on the items to match the changes and give reasons for certain types of champions to pick certain types of items.
Who knows though, maybe I'm wrong, that's always possible, and I welcome rebuttals.
KazaJhodo1 votesThis is because the balance team isn't doing their job.
Their objective is in their name... or perhaps they should change their name.
Hundreds of champions, most of them unplayed. Now, its far more complex than this of course, but I'm convinced that 'balance' is not, or ever has been the goal.
Although I do think they have been taking better steps recently, after a string of massive fuckups.
FilDaFunk2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AzEQE9mw,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-13T22:06:16.781+0000)
Damage is at anall time high. When I went into season 7 I was excited because it seemed like a lot of the old damage creep was being removed by the talent tree.
I was pretty sure the shift towards keystones (and all those "meaningful choices") would just result in more damage in the game and less actual choice.
Dr Dog2 votesbuffs are and arent the problem, the problem is EVERY buff is dmg even on tanks it makes no sense, then resistance nerfs on dmg champs are more common which just pushes dmg creep farther along with $kin buffs (mainly kha and lucian) which wouldnt be too bad if they EVER nerfed them back down lucian has been broken all season for the most part and already needed nerfs but they buffed him three patches in a row to promote the skin and hes been a bigger problem since
SKT T1 FTW2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AzEQE9mw,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-13T22:06:16.781+0000)
Damage is at anall time high. When I went into season 7 I was excited because it seemed like a lot of the old damage creep was being removed by the talent tree. Then we came into season 7 and damage was through the frigging roof to the place where it had to get nerfed. Something needs to be done.
good point
Yara02 votesThey need to be doing both.
ZackTheWaffleMan2 votesWhy not both?
VonToothskie2 votesI played straight tank mundo the other day, we were ahead and I was co-carrying an ARAM game with our adc. good way to full build, maybe 4500 life with decent resistances. you know, fed Mundo. and I died to a burst literally so fast I couldn't tell you what happened. it was under a second. yeah i got hit with 3 or 4 abilities, but wtf. that is a dumb meta
Daddy Ants2 votes 
Here's a few that need nerfing.
Velasan1 votesOr they can just keep doing both... like they always do? It's more about picking the right targets. Took like the whole season for Graves to get an AD nerf.
Sharuken1 votesno
SuffocateMeDaddy1 votesThere will never be only nerfs to strong champions because then you would have to nerf tanks and supports and those cry babys in echo chambers will literally start posting about how they will commit suicide if those changes go through.
Hammermancer1 votesWhat if we just stopped buffing strong champs and continued to buff weak ones so that eventually we could find some sort of parody and then nerf towards itemization so that snowballing is reduced and viability is increased?
JeaneGreene1 votesAll damage should be cut by 30%
