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Patch 5.20 general discussion

Eedat··1 votes·993 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/10/520-patch-notes.html

I think the Fiora nerf is a pretty big deal as most players would drop it on an enemy that is about to die in team fights and only get 1-2 Vitals before it went off. I like this change as Fiora is supposed to be "the Grand Duelist" and not "the Grand Healer". It's power is more or less unchanged in her 1v1 duels while getting around it's cheesy mechanics in a team fight.

Eve's nerf...... why?

Darius' nerfs are fair and alleviate some of his oppression sticking power to pretty much every Melee match up in lane. His heal is going to be a lot harder to pull off in team fights as well.

Mundo buffs are far from a solution to his problems, but I'm glad to see them making an effort to help a more or less forgotten top laner. I don't think these changes are going to do too much because Mundo's biggest problem is that almost the entire current Top Lane Meta counters him

The Teemo buffs that people were asking for went through. No opinion on this really

Tiny nerf to Vayne's early game. To be honest I'm glad they didn't go too crazy with the upcoming Marksmen update being a complete unknown of how it will shift the ADC meta.

26 Comments

Lugg2 votes

While the Fiora ult nerf is nice, it probably won't be enough to balance her.

Eve is getting a mana cost to an ability. Remember how bad it was when Ekko didn't have a cost on his ult? Sounds fair to me.

Darius nerf is along the same line as Fiora, probably not enough.

I believe the Mundo buffs are exactly what he needed. 5% of Mundo's max health on a hit is pretty substantial. You will no longer be able to just ignore him in teamfights.

Teemo definitely needs these buffs.

Vayne nerf? This is an even bigger joke than the last Jinx and Ahri nerfs. This change will have zero effect on the game.

Eedat2 votes

While the Fiora ult nerf is nice, it probably won't be enough to balance her.

I think it might be the nail in the coffin for her tbh. She was manageable before this nerf. Now her weak team fighting potential is even weaker. She's going to fall off into a win-lane-lose-game type of champ thats only good for laning phase and split pushing

Lugg1 votes

I disagree. She will still be great in teamfights if you can CC whoever she ults. That way she gets the full healing proc off of her ultimate.

Partholonian1 votes

Or vice versa. Challenging the guy who already has a Thresh hook sticking out of him may not be precisely honorable, but it's effective.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

darius deserves compensations buffs for this nerf though. his overall powerlevel and winrate are fine at the moment. the nerf to his q range is ok, if theyre compensating him somewhere else in return. preferably his lategame.

the fiora nerf is going to completely trash her, as most of her power in teamfights comes from the heal.

yes, assassinating someone for the heal is a cheesy strategy and the change in itself is ok. but its only half of the problem fixed.

youre never going to be able to get more than 1 or 2 vitals in a 5v5 scenario. so this nerf is going to obliterate her ability to teamfight. imo they should just make the step and make her resourceless. her mana costs arent noticable in lane anyways. so its not going to be a noticable change to her early game. and in teamfights she needs her spells to constantly move around and use her e to deal damage. if theyre cutting off 5v5 ability by wrecking her heal, they need to give her something else to do in these fights. distribute the powerbudget somewhere else instead of flat out making her useless past 20 minutes.

Big Lincoln1 votes

what do you think would be appropriate for Darius as compensation in this case?

personally i wouldn't mind his W scaling up, lower at level 1 but higher at max rank. i can't think of anything else other than adding scaling to other things to improve his late game

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-13T19:38:23.467+0000)

darius deserves compensations buffs for this nerf though. his overall powerlevel and winrate are fine at the moment. the nerf to his q range is ok, if theyre compensating him somewhere else in return. preferably his lategame.

the fiora nerf is going to completely trash her, as most of her power in teamfights comes from the heal.

yes, assassinating someone for the heal is a cheesy strategy and the change in itself is ok. but its only half of the problem fixed.

youre never going to be able to get more than 1 or 2 vitals in a 5v5 scenario. so this nerf is going to obliterate her ability to teamfight. imo they should just make the step and make her resourceless. her mana costs arent noticable in lane anyways. so its not going to be a noticable change to her early game. and in teamfights she needs her spells to constantly move around and use her e to deal damage. if theyre cutting off 5v5 ability by wrecking her heal, they need to give her something else to do in these fights. distribute the powerbudget somewhere else instead of flat out making her useless past 20 minutes.

I honestly hope Fiora doesn't get trashed, probably will though.

ømg2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-10-13T19:45:02.483+0000)

I honestly hope Fiora doesn't get trashed, probably will though.

... no? You actually have to use her ult as intended now, not just ult a near dead target and pretend you deserve an op aoe heal from skillfully hitting them once at 100 hp. Literally nothing else was touched, so her laning is still strong.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Heat 0n My Meat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-13T20:18:29.753+0000)

... no? You actually have to use her ult as intended now, not just ult a near dead target and pretend you deserve an op aoe heal from skillfully hitting them once at 100 hp. Literally nothing else was touched, so her laning is still strong.

the problem is, her ult is impossible to use as intended if youre realistic.

no team will enable you to get 4 vitals off on a target before you die. thats why the main use of her ult was to assassinate people for the heal right now.

the ideal scenario WOULD be to use her ult as intended and get all 4 vitals and the heal right now, as otherwise youre wasting a ton of damage potential just to assassinate 1 guy on low health.

but its practically impossible to accomplish. after this nerf, the only thing she will be good for is split pushing. and there are better champions for that.

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-13T19:42:44.187+0000)

what do you think would be appropriate for Darius as compensation in this case?

personally i wouldn't mind his W scaling up, lower at level 1 but higher at max rank. i can't think of anything else other than adding scaling to other things to improve his late game

i dont know tbh. increasing some lategame scalings sounds reasonable. a reduction on the w cooldown on higher ranks would make sense.

Sightless661 votes

You don't need to get all 4 vitals. Get 2 and you have 60% of the value of the current spell. 3 isn't unrealistic and will get you 80% of the spell. That's not an insignificant value. Given how extreme her strength is right now, it's perfectly reasonable to hit her her and compensate her later IF she needs it. Personally, I'm predicting her staying on the strong side. She's strong enough to take a straight hit and keep on going.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

The Mundo buff+Titanic Hydra. Just think about it for two seconds.

Eve's nerf...well, I can't claim to understand why, but something about it breaking slows, increasing MS and Evelynn having a built-in mana regen passive probably explains why.

Eedat1 votes

You're missing the point that Mundo gets dumped on by almost all of the current top meta. He's never going to get to that point without being super far behind

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

So? He's pretty safe and fast in the jungle, he can just hide there until the meta favors him again.

Eedat1 votes

He's pretty safe and fast in the jungle

Wrong. His abilities cost HP which makes his early clear very risky. Any Jungler with half a brain will be hunting him after they clear their first buff

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

And any team worth playing with is going to at least place a ward, if not help cover the jungler early on.

Eedat2 votes

any team worth playing with

have you ever played SoloQ?

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

You have no idea -_-

Yes, solo queue is completely uncontrollable and lacks teamwork in the majority of cases. Just because bad teamwork gives you a bad game, it doesn't make a champion bad.

GastonBarnacles1 votes

Mundo can stay top forever and just farm from range with his cleaver. This e buff mught make him op. Maybe just strong. Will be playing him since i have my toxic skin.

Eedat1 votes

I can tell you've never played Mundo

ømg1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-13T20:28:13.640+0000)

the problem is, her ult is impossible to use as intended if youre realistic.

no team will enable you to get 4 vitals off on a target before you die. thats why the main use of her ult was to assassinate people for the heal right now.

the ideal scenario WOULD be to use her ult as intended and get all 4 vitals and the heal right now, as otherwise youre wasting a ton of damage potential just to assassinate 1 guy on low health.

but its practically impossible to accomplish. after this nerf, the only thing she will be good for is split pushing. and there are better champions for that.

i dont know tbh. increasing some lategame scalings sounds reasonable. a reduction on the w cooldown on higher ranks would make sense.

no, because it's not hard with cleaver and spammable lunge to catch someone's vitals.

They didn't make it "hit all vitals or get nothing", they made it 2 seconds + any other vitals you hit will make the heal last 1 second longer.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Heat 0n My Meat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-13T20:36:00.293+0000)

no, because it's not hard with cleaver and spammable lunge to catch someone's vitals.

They didn't make it "hit all vitals or get nothing", they made it 2 seconds + any other vitals you hit will make the heal last 1 second longer.

in a 1v1 scenario maybe not. in teamfights its bloody hard. you can dodge 1 cc ability with riposte and then you get locked up and killed if you try to ult someone to get all vitals.

what keeps her alive in teamfights right now is opening up with the heal, then fight inside the zone.

ømg1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-13T20:41:55.493+0000)

in a 1v1 scenario maybe not. in teamfights its bloody hard. you can dodge 1 cc ability with riposte and then you get locked up and killed if you try to ult someone to get all vitals.

what keeps her alive in teamfights right now is opening up with the heal, then fight inside the zone.

hitting 2 vitals = 4 second heal, which is 1 second less than what it is right now. That's not unreasonable in the least, and that's not a big nerf in duration by any means.

If you can't dodge CC without riposte ... I don't know what to say. You even have a lunge, which like any dash, makes it easier to dodge CC. And there's always right clicking to dodge CC.

Look up any Fiora highlights video, they'll often hit at least two vitals in team fights because you're supposed to for the extra damage anyways. With the patch, they'll actually have more incentive to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFDxJfMEFpE ^vitals were hit. Now imagine if there was actually an incentive to do so now.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Heat 0n My Meat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwWKQZxu,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-10-13T20:57:04.061+0000)

hitting 2 vitals = 4 second heal, which is 1 second less than what it is right now. That's not unreasonable in the least, and that's not a big nerf in duration by any means.

If you can't dodge CC without riposte ... I don't know what to say. You even have a lunge, which like any dash, makes it easier to dodge CC. And there's always right clicking to dodge CC.

Look up any Fiora highlights video, they'll often hit at least two vitals in team fights because you're supposed to for the extra damage anyways. With the patch, they'll actually have more incentive to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFDxJfMEFpE ^vitals were hit. Now imagine if there was actually an incentive to do so now.

lungle doesnt save you from everything. a nautilus or leona alone can lock you up. not to mention other cc that might be flying around.

like i saiod. you can reliably dodge 1 cc ability.

Wezz1 votes

"We intentionally made evelynn bad so we can rework her.... again"

ShinTwist1 votes

Fiora's going to be bad, the rest of the changes seem pretty fair.

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