I was looking through the wikia and Janna and lulu both have 240 base shielding but Janna also has a 70% Ap scaling which is ridiculous. The highest scaling is at 80% with Ivern. Maybe, just maybe, Janna shouldn't have the highest base and one of the highest scalings?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votesyet janna normally dont build much AP normally utility
Unlucky471 votesYeah so she should have lower scalings. She's currently the number 1 support right now and by far the second worst one to play against
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesbut what is her play rate ?
i mean legit i cant remember the last time i played in a game that had a janna
Unlucky471 votes54% winrate at 12% play rate. She's been like this for a while now
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesjanna has had a higher then average win rate for ever.. season 2 til now...
she isnt that popular and picked as often as other supports
she has really long cds on her abilities and pretty high mana cost...
she has no damage... and to be effective with ult she has to put her self in harms way to peel with it while healing teammates very dangerous for a squishy ass support
Unlucky471 votesThe statistics don't support that. Her play rate is the second highest in the game behind thresh, and out of 30 champions, only five of them have an above 10 play rate. She is picked quite frequently. I don't know about putting herself in harms way. Not every single ultimate has to be a massive play making ult. If someone engages on her team, kennen or warwick per say, and she just cancelled or negated their ultimates, she has already contributed a great amount to her team. She does have long cooldowns but her mana cost are more than made up for by her mana regen.
Photos of Ghosts3 votesLow scaling * low AP = LULZ
Photos of Ghosts3 votesBring this topic back when Janna is strong
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes54.76% win rate
Redesignated1 votesWin rate alone != entire picture, this should be known by now. She has an incredibly low skill ceiling and skill floor, and she punishes people that are stupid about their positioning (i.e. low-skill level players).
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteslol i am a support main i use to play janna alot and fairly aggressive up in lane.. harassing and zoning
flash ults to make a pick in a fight... flash shields/ Qs etc
i just decided to play more ham champs of late at support
mainly 
building 
and taking 
Unlucky471 votesLol man I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me sometimes
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesneither ...
regardless if janna is nerfed how you want... cuz you think she is op then another champ rises in win % every buff /nerf directly and indirectly creates ripples through the balance of the game...
its impossible to achieve "perfect balance" of all champs having equal pick rates and win rates... the balance of the game comes from being slightly unbalanced ( its an abstract theory ) but think about it
Unlucky471 votesWhile I agree that the game can't be perfectly balanced, I think anything above a 53% winrate is worth looking into. Yes eventually another champion will become stronger but that's not the point. The point is that currently janna is the strongest support and by a large enough margin that she should be looked into.
Quepha2 votesJanna's shield is her primary lane phase tool, she's one of the only purely defensive supports and can only pull that off because of her shield.
Unlucky471 votesI get that but that shield is too much to lane against.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votescuz janna has a 75% win rate?
60?
hmm nope
54.76% which is strong but alot of supports are good right now
Unlucky471 votesLiterally almost any champion in the past year that has had above a 54% winrate was nerfed within a couple of patches.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesnot exactly true
Unlucky471 votesThat's why I put the almost in there. To save my ass if I'm wrong.
Quepha3 votesI get that but that shield is too much to lane against.
Not really, you have to consider how much her entire kit contributes to a fight compared to the entire kit of other supports. If a champion dealt 100 damage and shielded 100 damage, then they contributed just as much as a champion that dealt 200 damage and shielded nothing. Janna's damage is absolutely laughable and her fat shields only make her start to approach what other champions can accomplish (her peel makes up for the rest). Keep in mind that Janna's shields also can't maintain 100% uptime, so if she uses it incorrectly there will be a window to get damage in on her adc.
Isn't it actually weirder that Lee Sin gets a higher base on his shield while applying it to two targets when no one even cares about his shield relative to all the early game damage he brings?
vOmvbrawfU1 votesYou're talking to a wall bud lol.
Unlucky471 votesHer entire kit is obviously better than other supports in fights or she wouldnt win the most out of all of them. Champions don't have to deal damage to be useful. It's the fact that Janna alone can disengage an entire team after they've used their cc and then shield low health allies a fuck ton to keep them from dying that makes her so strong. A good janna player wouldn't use their shield untill right before their adc is about to take a lot of damage anyways which means that whoever just tried to do damage has to burst through it along with item based shields.
Redesignated1 votesHer entire kit is obviously better than other supports in fights or she wouldnt win the most out of all of them.
Because... it's only Janna's kit that ever matters in any situation? What?
Unlucky471 votesThat's not what I meant but the truth remains that her kit is better in a large amount of situations which leads to her being the best support.
Redesignated1 votesExcept she's not. She has one of the simplest and most effective kits at dealing with low-coordination and low-skill opponents on a support, which is why she artificially looks like the best. If she was actually the best, you would see her drawing bans at more than a 0.57% rate, since you like to cite win rate. There are many other champions that are capable of outperforming her precisely because what she does is so basic and predictable.
Unlucky471 votesWhat about her kit is actually avoidable? You talk like we're discussing lux or ziggs who's entire kits are avoidable. Janna has one spell that you can actually avoid. How is coordination going to stop her from ulting to disengage or shielding an ally? The only way I can interpret your use of the term team coordination is if you mean by killing her. If that's the case, that's a weak argument because that's how you deal with any champion in the game.
Redesignated1 votesAlso the cite I'm looking at says she has an almost 1% ban rate which is about the same as the rest of the support champions. No one wants to ban a support when they can ban mages or skirmishers. The only supports that have high ban rates are mostly mages that could also go mid and they might have been banned for that reason.
http://champion.gg/champion/Janna/Support
0.57% ban rate as of 7.2.
Zyra practically never goes mid (91.08% play rate as support), Malzahar now sees almost 3/4 of his play as support, Brand 2/3, Morgana 80%… These are champions that could go mid, but very rarely do, and they all have higher ban rates than her. Even Leona, the exact opposite of Janna in terms of supports (hard engage vs. hard disengage), has a higher ban rate than her.
Zyra, Malzahar, Morgana, etc. are not getting their bans that high because people are scared of them in mid.
What about her kit is actually avoidable?
Where did I say "avoid"? I said "predictable," "simple," "basic," but not "avoid." And again, because it is those things, it is incredibly easy to outplay. And if your best interpretation of "team coordination" is "kill them" then that kinda tells as to why you'd think Janna is OP in the first place.
Unlucky471 votesNo I'm saying that that's what you're making team coordination sound like. There's no "team coordination" that can stop janna from disengaging you other than attacking the champion.
What good does predicting that she's going to do something have if you don't actually get anything out of it. Outplay implies there is a way to do something about it and as I've said before, you can't do anything about anything in jannas kit.
And I personally ban malzahar for mid along with a good majority of the people I know. Just because those champions are played mostly support doesn't mean that's what they're mostly banned for.
Redesignated1 votesAs I mentioned in your other thread about this (and before you wrote this reply, of course), team coordination lets you play around her cooldowns more easily, where she has to aim her Q, and force her to use her ult suboptimally, which then leaves a pretty significant window of vulnerability that can be exploited by ganks that further force her to pick her Q targets. And even then, as a slow skillshot, if you're going in for the kill you can just Flash it.
I've seen maybe three Malzahar bans that were likely targeted at mid within the last four months of playing? This was before he saw a rise as a support and long after his decline as a mid-laner or jungler.
Janna's only means to outplay you is basically to Flash > ult into some big source of damage. You have many means to outplay her as a result, which are (again) largely reliant on coordinated efforts from your team. You can't really outplay shields in general except by breaking them; the AP scaling on Janna's means next to nothing unless she's building heavy AP for some reason, and if that's the case and she's actually succeeding with it, I'd kind of question the play against her that lead up to her being able to ever do that.
And, eh. Champion.gg being Champion.gg at times. 
Unlucky471 votesYou say predictable but that implies that you can do something about it. Nothing good comes out of just predicting something. Like a rengar symbol pops up above my head while I'm playing an immobile champion. "Oh guess I'm about to get one shotted" there. I predicted he was going to do it. And then 4 seconds later my screens black and white.
The term outplay implies that you can actually do something about it. You can't outplay a janna shield and the only way you're outplaying her ult is if you're riven and you cc cancel it.
"The only way I can interpret YOUR use of the term team coordination" meant that the way you were using it made it sound like the YOU meant "kill them" Team coordination isn't going to stop anything in jannas kit with the exception of attacking the champion.
Unlucky471 votesAnd champion.gg is being weird. It's displaying different stats for when you're looking at the graph or just the champion page. I'm not sure which one is correct.
Unlucky471 votesAlso the cite I'm looking at says she has an almost 1% ban rate which is about the same as the rest of the support champions. No one wants to ban a support when they can ban mages or skirmishers. The only supports that have high ban rates are mostly mages that could also go mid and they might have been banned for that reason.
Mysticman891 votesSee, now I want to go full ap lee sin support for hella shields.
(And if I wasn't trash insec potential, but trash.)
Redesignated1 votesMaybe when she's useful for pretty much anything other than her shield during laning phase and can approach anywhere near the level of utility that Karma, Lulu, etc. can have? She has literally gotten nothing but nerfs for several years now, the only reason she still thrives is because she's an easy ladder-climb support — simple to pick up, very little mastery curve that's unique to her as a champion, punishes bad play effectively.
Dark Nephthys1 votesJanna is fine... I'd rather play against 
then against the mages that has been destroying bot lane 
.