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a more accurate, enjoyable and less-time consuming ranked system

Th3 Rift Hero··15 votes·1,471 views

  1. A variation of elo matchmaking but taking in account invidual performance inside a team, and a more rewarding ranked, let me explain : every players would start at 1200, nothing new there with a basis k variation of 20 ( something similar to lp), a win would be ''player elo''+k(1-prediction) and a lose would be "player elo"+k(0-prediction)...

  2. Prediction would be calculated like this : 1/[1+[10exp(("team a elo'' - "team b elo''))/400]], well something probably similar than the current matchmaking, but then...

  3. k would vary each game depending on how well the player did compared to the playerbase in his tier for his champ in the role, 50% being the average, gaining +1 or losing -1 to his value for each 4% of variation on all variables averaged to a percent score , the variables calculated being :

  4. kda(death in teamfights and executions being worth 0,5), cs score(not calculated for supports), enemy laner cs deficit, contribution to objectives (calculating damages from the lanes minions to the enemy turret), cc effects applied, vision placed, vision denied, win or lose of the lane according to matchup ( for example, if 80% win lane, count 70% if you win and 20% if you lose), here some additional rules :

  5. A teamfight is counted if at least 3 players of a team gather in the same spot and fighters and tanks gain an additional variable for damage done vs taken by the team when there is a teamfight going on. Also a minimal ping would be needed for ranked. Now here's an additional variation on k:

  6. Win and lose streaks would change the value of k but this would be easily movable to prevent tanking, here some examples of k increase and decreases according to match history, max values being +11/-29 or -11/+29 :

+20 +21 +22 -18 +22 -18 +22 -18 -19 +21 +22 +23

+11 -29 +11 -29 -29 +11 +12 -28 +12 -28 +12 +13 -27

  1. In placements k would be different and win streak/lose streaks wouldn't have an impact, i would also do season start placements and mid-season placements, the second having less impact (oh also, it would go with the elo you had when you last played ranked, no resets), here's the k values for each 10 games in order season start placements : 300 150 145 130 115 100 85 70 55 40 mid-season placements : 150 75 70 65 60 55 50 45 40 35

and then k reset at 20 without impact of earlier win or lose streaks

  1. I would remove the fact that tiers are divided by 5, these would just be in higher number and a little bit smaller in elo margin, each would be worth 149 elo and this would be some kind of lp without promos and demotion shielding, each would give a different border with the percentile of the player toward the tier playerbase (even the lowest) and a different victorious skin ( highest elo would also get the skins of lowest tiers) here's how i would divide this :

wood : 1-150 stone : 151-300 copper : 301-450 bronze : 451-600 iron : 601-750 steel : 751-900 silver : 901-1050 electrum : 1051-1200 gold : 1201-1350 platinum : 1351-1500 crystal : 1501-1650 emerald : 1651-1800 sapphire : 1801-1950 ruby : 1951-2100 diamond : 2101-2250 legend : 2251+

  1. oh and yeah, fuck the decay ;)

  2. elo ranking accuracy simulation :

i tested win probabilities for deserved elo, rolled d100 for game outcomes assuming that matchmaking have a +0 difference and simulated until player reach his deserved tier taking in account the fact that he play to the same level as his win probability, so that's how it could go for really consistent players of different skill level, according to the results my ranking system seems really fast and accurate. I can test other things in simulation if you want:

deserved tier : wood (75)

1200 lose -312 888 lose -162 726 lose -157 569 lose -141 428 lose -124 304 lose -106 198 lose -88 110 lose -70 40 win +55 95 win +40

placed tier : wood (135)

perfect placement

deserved tier : steel (825)

1200 lose -310 890 lose -152 738 lose -142 596 win +137 733 win +118 851 lose -101 750 lose -83 667 win +75 742 win +57 799 lose -40 placed tier : iron (759)

perfect placement

deserved tier : crystal (1575)

1200 lose -291 909 win +161 1070 win +156 1226 win +139 1365 win +121 1486 win +103 1589 win +85 1674 win +67 1741 lose - 60 1681 lose -43

placed tier : crystal (1638)

perfect placement

deserved tier : legend (2325)

1200 win +312 1512 win +162 1674 win +157 1831 win +141 1972 win +127 2099 win +107 2206 lose -82 2124 win +78 2202 lose -52 2150 win +45

placed tier : diamond (2195)

2195 win +24 2219 win +24 2243 lose -17 2226 win +24 2250 win +24

legend (2274)

5 games to reach deserved tier

example of skill modifiers in action :

let's say for a silver player :

the average kda is 1,7, the player get 2 50 x2 /1,7, he's 59% better than the playerbase in silver with his champ in role so he score 59%

the average cs/min is 5, the player get 7 he get 70%

enemy laner has same cs, so the player get 50%

average damage dealt to objectives including damage dealt by lane minions is 5000, the player do 4000, he have 40%

average cc delivered in teamfights is 6, player get 4, he get 33 %

the average of wards in good spots is 5, player set 10, he get 100%, max possible

the average wards destroyed is 3, player destroy 5, he have 83%

75% of players of his tiers get tier 1 turret first in this matchup, he lose his turret first, so he score 25% cause difference between 50 and 75 is 25 and 50-25=25

let's do the average of all, it's 57,5% for each 4% you gain or lose +1 so the player would win 21 or lose -19 and then the win streaks modifier will be taken into account

57 Comments

HalcyonDweller9 votes

Seems legit to me, I'm a fan of legitimate math. You have some good ideas here and hopefully Riot will do something with this.

What I really wish to see though, is a separate ranking for each role/position. So each player has a separate MMR for Top and Support for example. This way if they choose to play an off-role or they get autofilled into one, they won't be matched against players with the same MMR as they have in their best role. It seems fair to me.

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

sure this could work too,i don't really know how this could be implemented in my system tho, maybe we could see 2 ranks, the rank for role being like a small icon on the border but if we really wanna use it in the matchmaking, maybe we could match players having similar general/roles-specific elo combination together, though, this may increase the queue time a lot

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I imagine it would work best by keeping a base MMR score for general game knowledge, this would change more slowly and be scored more carefully, basing it on their mechanics and specific scores such as gold earned, KDA, CS, and teamwork / map awareness. Players who rotate effectively or who manage minion waves well would gain better scores from those things, thus increasing their base MMR.

Then players would have a variable, like your 'k,' that alters their base MMR score. This creates a new MMR score that is used to match them with other players. The player's modifier score could be based more on their overall winrate or success rate in each position, or even their scores in individual mechanics that are deemed important for that role.

I'm not explaining it well when I try to respond to your points directly. Let me try again:

Imagine a player has a base MMR for their account, and an MMR modifier for each role. When they are matched with teammates and opponents, their score is determined by taking their base MMR and increasing or decreasing it by some amount based on their modifier for the role that they are assigned.

Here's an example:

Say a person mains Mid and they don't play much Jungle, then their modifier would be higher for mid, and lower for jungle.

If they are assigned their main role, mid, then their MMR would be increased based on their Mid modifier, and they would be matched with and against opponents who's Modified scores are similar, IE similarly skilled players who are also on their main roles, or higher skilled players who are playing off-roles.

On the other hand if they are assigned Jungle as a role, then their modifier would decrease their Base MMR and they would be matched with opponents who's modified MMRs better match THAT score. For example other similarly skilled players who are also playing off-roles, or lower skilled players who are playing their main roles.

I believe that this would do a lot to ensure much fairer matchmaking, while also hopefully helping players feel safer about trying off roles or branching out instead of dodging when they get autofilled.

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

interesting, i love your idea

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Thanks, I am glad. perhaps I will make a post about it.

SEKAI3 votes

{quoted}

Seems legit to me, I'm a fan of legitimate math.

Legitimate math looks like something like THIS (Thread title: Decoding World War III By Triangulating WW II, WW I, Yellowstone And Quantum Physics).

LEGIT

HalcyonDweller4 votes

{quoted}

Legitimate math looks like something like THIS (Thread title: Decoding World War III By Triangulating WW II, WW I, Yellowstone And Quantum Physics).

LEGIT

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/727/910/577.gif

Th3 Rift Hero2 votes

{quoted}

Legitimate math looks like something like THIS (Thread title: Decoding World War III By Triangulating WW II, WW I, Yellowstone And Quantum Physics).

LEGIT

lol

Kyunsei3 votes

Remove Promo matches. Time consumed reduced heavily.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero2 votes

i tried doing something more, but i didn't really knew how to do, i said these numbers because these were supposed to reflect the skill of a average player from this level, it's also a system heavily reliant on the real elo matchmaking system, just a little bit tweaked for calculating individual skill on a team and skill variation over time, and real elo can't really be used since it is made for 1v1 games, not 5v5 ones

and dude, it's a real elo system variation, i looked on the web for info

btw all the stats that are counted are things that USUALLY favor a game winning situation and they are a little tweak, nothing more

sure skill can't be perfectly estimated, but im pretty sure these things are good estimations

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

sure it's so fun to get unfair lp loss when you couldn't do anything to turn the tide of the game, you can only impact 20% of your team and hope they will do smart things with what you give to them, it's also so fun to be way ahead of your skill level after having improved while it take ages to climb since you tanked hard your mmr in a 5th division and now you need to win 4 games for 1 lose all the time or else all your progress is deleted

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

ranking takes too fucking long and this shit is frustrating, with my system, a player who perform well and win alot will climb at the fastest speed possible, for an average one who win a lot, it will take a little bit more time but he will climb too someone who do bad and win few games will fall, an average winner being average will stay where he is and someone who do well but win 50% of his games will climb, really slowly tho

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

But your system doesn't actually know which players are playing well. Your model assumes that the system was already given which players are good and which are bad and then sorts them based on these per-determinant stats. It does nothing to actually determine which players are good and which are bad. Your system might be faster at reaching its end goal but it simply puts players into random per-determined slots.

nah i'm not assuming any pre-ranking shit, these were just test values for what would be expected from a really consistent average player with skill level approximately equal to one rank ranking in my system and the values aren't random i calculated for 1/4 2/4 3/4 and 4/4 player on the ladder with the value being the perfect middle of these rank bounds, i tested each game outcome by rolling dices according to probability of winning a game vs a team of player of one specific skill level

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

Except you just pulled the "expected" values out of your ass to make your model look better. Your "crystal" and "wood" player both lost their first match from a 0-0 record and you assigned -291 to one player and -312 to the other just so they can go to their pre-determined ranks faster. There is nothing in your model which shows it can properly differentiate a 1575 elo player from a 75 elo player on game one.

nah it's not from my ass, it is -300 if the player play at a 50% level the wood player lose with a 0,001 % chances of winning and i assume he also played at a 0,001% level for this elo, the crystal player had 89% chances of winning( i just scored above 89 on the dices) but we can assume he played at a 89% level thus having his k for losing reduced by 9 since 89-50=39/4=9,75(reduced to the lowest for obvious reasons)

if you would have read and analyzed my maths you would understand

btw the probabilities are pure elo system ones

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

Except you just pulled the whole "play at 89%" completely out of your ass. A crystal player won't have 89% of the "kda, enemy laner cs deficit, contribution to objectives, cc effects applied, vision placed, vision denied, win or lose of the lane according to matchup" nor would such a value even be obtainable.

You just fixed the numbers to make your model look good when realistically, there is zero chance your model could take the stats you got and determine how good the player in question in. On top of that, such a model wouldn't even be accurate unless you take into consideration matchups in multiple roles and riot doesn't have the data to do so.

come on do you know what a simplification is? and why ZERO chance, a good player will USUALLY AND CONSISTENLY cs well die less, give pressure to his opponent so his opponent cs less, he will bring impact into the game, contribute to objectives taking, bring a shitton of vision to the team while denying vision and will surely win his lane more often, and he would surely do better that players in the ranks he face. You just want nothing to change and you're so proud of being diamond that you feel like a god and don't have any openness to new ideas, and you don't complain cause your teammates aren't at all as clueless than low elo players, clown fiestas don't happen in diamond, this is the cancer only low elo get.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

But never to an equal degree. Everyone has their own playstyles with strengths in some areas and weaknesses in other areas. Simply averaging out doesn't show actual contribution to why a team won or lost. Even using regression to take a weighted average has failed. We already saw riot trying to do this with the grading system and it failed miserably even when riot had an avalanche of data to adjust for as many factors as they could have.

I don't want players who are new to the genra to make the same mistakes we have been making for the past decade. I have always been a proponent of changing ranked where it could potentially help such as with better champion balance, removing autofill, giving afk protection, etc. However, I have been around for countless incarnations of failed attempts at trying to add skill based measures into ranked and know most of the common pitfalls. Your system does nothing to address these issues which is why it will fail just like the champion grading system before it.

im not new to the genre, i played over 2000 games this season and i learned a lot of things and i seen the places where ranked fail. i don't see where champion grading failed honestly, from where do you take this information? i also don't think they tried using it in ranked.

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

But never to an equal degree. Everyone has their own playstyles with strengths in some areas and weaknesses in other areas. Simply averaging out doesn't show actual contribution to why a team won or lost. Even using regression to take a weighted average has failed. We already saw riot trying to do this with the grading system and it failed miserably even when riot had an avalanche of data to adjust for as many factors as they could have.

I don't want players who are new to the genra to make the same mistakes we have been making for the past decade. I have always been a proponent of changing ranked where it could potentially help such as with better champion balance, removing autofill, giving afk protection, etc. However, I have been around for countless incarnations of failed attempts at trying to add skill based measures into ranked and know most of the common pitfalls. Your system does nothing to address these issues which is why it will fail just like the champion grading system before it.

im pretty sure you would still be high elo in this system if you really deserve your rank, if it is what is worrrying you in such a system i don't think it would be a problem ones of the biggest things that would change is rewards for all, less impact of undeserved losses, bigger impact of games where you carried, faster climbing overall and room to improvement in the ranking

FOR JUSTICE2 votes

Wait but your system is giving..... MORE PROMOS????

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSqHxXHiOcoUAjLA00_9vhE2Njnu_PB9T40vF3m6GQWv3aZSiU3

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

nah i said there would be no promos nor demotion shielding

Cavesloth2 votes

Very nice. Shame Riot won't do this, they have things they way they are because they WANT to waste your time. They WANT you to spend all season playing ranked to get to were you are "supposed" to be.

Kuponya2 votes

You are silver, you don't even understand how to play, what makes you think you know how to create a more accurate and enjoyable ranked system?

hoyohai2 votes

Do you have to be above average to know how to play LoL? I'm level 12 and I know how to play it, and I'm considerably below average in skill level.

Also, how do you know you aren't a silver player?

Kuponya1 votes

Do you really know how to play? Or do you just play? Give a monkey a mouse and he's considered playing the game, knowing the win condition is not enough to mean you know how to play, just that you play.

And how do I know I'm not silver? Gee, maybe the ranked emblem that isn't silver would be a good indicator

hoyohai1 votes

Well I agree with your first point, but not your second point. To me, it looks like you're level 28. Ranked is unlocked at level 30.

Kuponya1 votes

Seems like it is pretty obvious what the current scenario is isn't it...there hasn't been a reason yet why I should post from a main now is there? The OP is a noob that knows nothing, that much is absolute whether or not I post from a level 28 or a level 30+

hoyohai1 votes

Well... Ad Hominem?

Kuponya1 votes

Rank.

hoyohai1 votes

Well... can you prove to me why his idea is bad without attacking him? If so, then I will agree with you.

Kuponya1 votes

And waste my time reading OP's garbage? No thanks

(Also, I don't need your agreement, the ranks of those in this thread alone speaks vastly for the validity of the OP's idea)

Had I known you also lack brain, I would've gladly explained earlier, but perhaps I expected too much from a level 13

hoyohai1 votes

You can't know whether or not an idea is garbage without reading it. You also can't assume a person's idea is bad because they are a bad player. Bad players can still come up with good ideas.

Kuponya1 votes

No they don't. The basis of their idea is that it is better than the current system, yet there is nothing to prove it is better or more accurate in any fashion. The reason they assume their idea is a better system is because they can't rank up after 2k games yet there have been players easily getting to higher ranks from fresh account in less games.

This thread spawned from a clear place, ego. A noob who can't climb thinks the system is flawed and blames the system instead of their own skill.

Now certainly the current one isn't perfect, but it is certainly better than anything a noob could spout.

hoyohai1 votes

Have you read it yet? Tell me your opinions after you've read it. It might not have come from the right place, but it still may be a good idea.

Kuponya1 votes

...I'm going to assume you read past the first line and you still think it may be a good idea?

...bottom tiers do think differently it seems..

hoyohai1 votes

Well then, not bottom tier person, help a fellow bottom tier person out and explain why this is a bad idea. I don't understand.

Kuponya1 votes

"A variation of elo matchmaking but taking in account invidual performance inside a team"

It is nearly impossible to judge individual performance. I won't be going further, use that brain of yours to figure it out from there, it helps you reach higher tiers, and it can help you with reasoning here.

hoyohai1 votes

See, you can convince me, instead of telling me the OP is stupid. If you told me all the way up there, instead of telling me that reading the OP's post is garbage, you would have saved a considerable amount of time.

Thanks for helping me, though.

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

Do you really know how to play? Or do you just play? Give a monkey a mouse and he's considered playing the game, knowing the win condition is not enough to mean you know how to play, just that you play.

And how do I know I'm not silver? Gee, maybe the ranked emblem that isn't silver would be a good indicator

i have lot of game knowledge that i don't use at his best since i got adhd

Kuponya1 votes

Self diagnosis is meaningless.

Poske1 votes

And How do you value me for example using Le blanc clone (RR) in such way that i save 30 cs for my AD carry

What I am trying to say is no...

Yes if we were forced to make such system yours isnt bad per say

BUT we arent forced to

Only thing which matters is if you destroy a nexus or not

Having said that

Promo games should be removed (master to chall doesnt have them anyway rest dont have to suffer)

Bring back season 2 system It was better

Also there is a chance your system would create kda players who hover on the outskirts

Idk what else to say you just wasted bunch of time

Th3 Rift Hero1 votes

{quoted}

And How do you value me for example using Le blanc clone (RR) in such way that i save 30 cs for my AD carry

What I am trying to say is no...

Yes if we were forced to make such system yours isnt bad per say

BUT we arent forced to

Only thing which matters is if you destroy a nexus or not

Having said that

Promo games should be removed (master to chall doesnt have them anyway rest dont have to suffer)

Bring back season 2 system It was better

Also there is a chance your system would create kda players who hover on the outskirts

Idk what else to say you just wasted bunch of time

probably not since what create lp gains and losses wont be revealed

notice me Sin pi1 votes

turning your suggestion into an algorithm is probably nowhere near hard for most programmers. But then making it work along with the current role select algorithm would be very difficult. Riot forced us into 1 full season of dynamic queue cause they couldnt even get the algorithm to work well, and even after Riot said they are pretty confident with their algorithm and re-opened solo queue, we still get few games where peoples' primary roles get mixed up.

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