im disgusted at how hopeless the matchmaking is rn

Th3 Rift Hero·Dec 30, 2018·25 votes·11,838 views

like, dunno, its either coinflip if you win the game or not or fucking rigged(streaks happen too often even without change in gameplay) like srsly, no matter how well you play and how hard you try, there is too much games where you cant do shit to win the game, either teamfights are unwinnable, teammates are feeding over 9000, there is a troll, no one defend, ranks disecrepancy is way too high, you cant end the game, etc. And then you lose over 20 lp for games where you have 0 control over even altough you had a s, this is honestly bringing me to the point of near insanity.

41 Comments

GFREEMENDec 30, 20188 votes

Yep

I just had a game where the enemy bot lane was Plat and Gold in S8 but in preseason they are Silver and Iron.

Of course my teams bot lane was steam rolled.

StraconyDec 30, 20187 votes

I'm disgusted at Riot in general. Not only does matchmaking not work: Riots punishment stance, it's abysmal balancing issues, it's blatant disregard for it's players and it's wilful ignorance is more toxic than anything any sole player can achieve, including Tyler 1.

MoonscourgeDec 31, 20181 votes

You're doing a great job at further diluting the term toxic.

What "ignorance" exactly? That they don't listen to what silver players complain about all day, every day?

StraconyDec 31, 20183 votes

How is ignoring the blatant trolling and intentional throwing and punishing the frustrated victims who actually want a competitive environment not toxic?

Its got to the point now where its seen as ok to intentionally throwing games is seen as the norm.

And yes IGNORENCE. The majority of the player base has been saying for at least a year that damage is far to fucking high. All Riot has done is wilfully ignore this by solely buffing damage at any opertunity they have.

Its got to the point where a very small fraction of the entire champion pool is actually viable. The only things that a viable are champs that have mobility and enough burst damage to delete anyone withing a fraction of a second.

You are fundamentally ignorent if you are serious about defending this shit.

This is failure at the basic level of game design. Or even failure at the basic level at every single aspect of the punishment system. You are deluded if you think otherwise.

The community has spoken. In NA and EUW the playerbase has been cut by more than half and all that left are the truely toxic players that get away with countless games and countless hours that are consistantly wasted by these cretins.

White knight all you want, you are wrong on every consivable level.

JamareeDec 30, 20185 votes

I mean yeah, that is how variance works?

Nea104Dec 30, 20182 votes

No, it's not. And in (basically) 2019 everyone should know it.

Variance (or, better, standard deviation, but doesn't matter much here), should tell us that a MINOR number of games ends in a stomp, if we were in a FAIR system. We should have a narrow Gaussian fucntion/distribution of some sort.

Now, look at your match history, or at some friends', or just watch some streams. Count how many games are actually balanced. Snowballing? Ok then, consider only the first 10 minutes. If your "variance" were true for Riot's system, you should count only a few games actually unbalanced; actually, no more than 30% or so. Of course we can argue about what "balanced" means, but I think that a 5-0, 8-1, 7-2 are pretty evident per se.

Now, surpise: balanced games are LESS than unbalanced one, and actually STOMPS are a majority. Basically, this system is some sort of a "double gaussian", picked on the "get stomped" and the "stomp" points, with a big hole in the middle. This is what is usually called a rigged system :)

JamareeDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

No, it's not. And in (basically) 2019 everyone should know it.

Variance (or, better, standard deviation, but doesn't matter much here), should tell us that a MINOR number of games ends in a stomp, if we were in a FAIR system. We should have a narrow Gaussian fucntion/distribution of some sort.

Now, look at your match history, or at some friends', or just watch some streams. Count how many games are actually balanced. Snowballing? Ok then, consider only the first 10 minutes. If your "variance" were true for Riot's system, you should count only a few games actually unbalanced; actually, no more than 30% or so. Of course we can argue about what "balanced" means, but I think that a 5-0, 8-1, 7-2 are pretty evident per se.

Now, surpise: balanced games are LESS than unbalanced one, and actually STOMPS are a majority. Basically, this system is some sort of a "double gaussian", picked on the "get stomped" and the "stomp" points, with a big hole in the middle. This is what is usually called a rigged system :)

The problem that kind of system doesn't take into consideration however goes beyond a statline. Humans aren't consistent enough for that, even if the system was this concept of perfection, you would still have stomps anyone because humans make mistakes. Ever had games where you just shit the bed, and give up three kills in the first five minutes or something? Well you could say it was because the system rigged you and threw you with a player that was better, then what of the games where that happens and they are a lower rank then?

No system will ever make anyone happy period because people will always feed, people will always stomp, people will always snowball and throw all the math out the window.

Nea104Dec 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The problem that kind of system doesn't take into consideration however goes beyond a statline. Humans aren't consistent enough for that, even if the system was this concept of perfection, you would still have stomps anyone because humans make mistakes.

This is exactly why you need statistics to analyze this kind of things, and not exact calculations. It's obvious :D

Ever had games where you just shit the bed, and give up three kills in the first five minutes or something? Well you could say it was because the system rigged you and threw you with a player that was better, then what of the games where that happens and they are a lower rank then?

Yes, and these are called particular cases, or exceptions, or low-probability events. Statistics, again, is made to take them into account. What is happening with Riot's matchmaking is different, and it's by rule.

No system will ever make anyone happy period because people will always feed, people will always stomp, people will always snowball and throw all the math out the window.

Yes, and this is why we talk about "mean values", normal distributions etc.

When you have a system that just works in the opposite way of a fair system, that has nothing to do with variance, randomness, human behaviours whatsoever.

Th3 Rift HeroDec 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The problem that kind of system doesn't take into consideration however goes beyond a statline. Humans aren't consistent enough for that, even if the system was this concept of perfection, you would still have stomps anyone because humans make mistakes. Ever had games where you just shit the bed, and give up three kills in the first five minutes or something? Well you could say it was because the system rigged you and threw you with a player that was better, then what of the games where that happens and they are a lower rank then?

No system will ever make anyone happy period because people will always feed, people will always stomp, people will always snowball and throw all the math out the window.

actually it would be way more fair if the game would vary lp according to your own performance for a specific game, like how much you were a carry for your team, and the calculation process for carrying should depend on the role also so supports arent left behind

JamareeDec 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

actually it would be way more fair if the game would vary lp according to your own performance for a specific game, like how much you were a carry for your team, and the calculation process for carrying should depend on the role also so supports arent left behind

The problem with that method is that it doesn't work in a team based setting, and then what of games where you are like the tank or split pushing and carrying even though your scoreline looks like you are feeding?

Th3 Rift HeroDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The problem with that method is that it doesn't work in a team based setting, and then what of games where you are like the tank or split pushing and carrying even though your scoreline looks like you are feeding?

this should be taken into account too

JamareeDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

this should be taken into account too

How?

Th3 Rift HeroDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

How?

let me explain, any champion should benefit from good kda, kill contribution, gold/min(unless you're sup) and contribution to objectives (let's say, percent of damage to objectives done on your team). Tanks and fighters players should also benefit from self mitigated damage and supports should benefit from percent of kills assisted. With these values, we should determine some sort of average for all stats and determine then how the lp will vary.

JamareeDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

let me explain, any champion should benefit from good kda, kill contribution, gold/min(unless you're sup) and contribution to objectives (let's say, percent of damage to objectives done on your team). Tanks and fighters players should also benefit from self mitigated damage and supports should benefit from percent of kills assisted. With these values, we should determine some sort of average for all stats and determine then how the lp will vary.

And what of the games where you end up feeding, but being the one to carry because of split pushing, what of the games with few kills, what of the stalling people will do to inflate their elo gains?

Th3 Rift HeroDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And what of the games where you end up feeding, but being the one to carry because of split pushing, what of the games with few kills, what of the stalling people will do to inflate their elo gains?

i will explain this later on another post

LeetriDec 31, 20181 votes

What if you're playing say Darius and just by standing there you're zoning the entire enemy team, allowing your team to take the objective uncontested? You're not dealing any damage to the objective or the enemy, nor are you tanking them, but you're still contributing a lot to your team and your chance to win. With your suggestion it would be better for Darius to let the enemy contest the objective because then he can get stats that are tracked by the performance system, giving him more LP (or losing less LP on a loss).

Th3 Rift HeroDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

What if you're playing say Darius and just by standing there you're zoning the entire enemy team, allowing your team to take the objective uncontested? You're not dealing any damage to the objective or the enemy, nor are you tanking them, but you're still contributing a lot to your team and your chance to win. With your suggestion it would be better for Darius to let the enemy contest the objective because then he can get stats that are tracked by the performance system, giving him more LP (or losing less LP on a loss).

i will explain this later on another post

ı Sona ıDec 30, 20183 votes

Just pick Sona top or MF support and be willing to be the one to engage the fight.

Nothing like ulting the enemy team in the face to get the team moving. [sg-miss-fortune]

14daysuspensionkDec 30, 20182 votes

Why do I get downvoted when I talk about this?

Th3 Rift HeroDec 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Why do I get downvoted when I talk about this?

you need to find the right and wise words

charge attackDec 30, 20181 votes

Unlucky.

Flufflepuff4231Dec 30, 20181 votes

League actually does have some pretty random choice selections with their teams sometimes you just get on and have a really sucky team but sometimes you end up having a really great team and you actually agree communication with good tanks and amazing jungles. At first I thought that people would pretty much just be paired up with similar levels and then you would be against people with similar levels but that’s not how it works. Recently when were in load out I’ve been looking up at OP.GG the levels of the different people I’m playing with and the levels of the other team and you can see that if there’s a level 100 on your team then there’s going to be someone’s On a similar level but you could also have at the same time a level five on your team but they will have someone of similar level on their team so you could have a huge range of levels with new people and people from playing for five years but the thing is that there has to be someone with similar skill level on their team. I may be exaggerating these numbers a little bit it might be instead someone with a level 50 and level 20 but still that’s how it works I think it is pretty random and sometimes you just get a sucky team

Glory97Dec 30, 20181 votes

You can match 2 exactly equally skilled teams against each other, and in 4 out 5 games you'll see a one-sided stomp. Because one good early gank, that results in a kill, 2 turret platings is all it need to start an unstoppable snowball ending the game at min 20.

In preseason 6 riot decided that league needs short matches. And matches aren't short if they are not stomp-festivals.

This game is only going to have coinflip-matches for the rest of its time and even the most perfect matchmaking won't change that.

(and don't try to hope that riot's balance team can create a healthy meta, cause this hope will only dissappoint you)

brucey42085Dec 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

You can match 2 exactly equally skilled teams against each other, and in 4 out 5 games you'll see a one-sided stomp. Because one good early gank, that results in a kill, 2 turret platings is all it need to start an unstoppable snowball ending the game at min 20.

In preseason 6 riot decided that league needs short matches. And matches aren't short if they are not stomp-festivals.

This game is only going to have coinflip-matches for the rest of its time and even the most perfect matchmaking won't change that.

(and don't try to hope that riot's balance team can create a healthy meta, cause this hope will only dissappoint you)

Not. Even. A. Little. Several seasons ago the blowouts were not this bad. Used to be you'd get a blowout maybe 20% of the time now it seems like you only get a competitive game 20% of the time. Totally anecdotal, I have no data to support this, just my impression having played since season 3.

MoonscourgeDec 31, 20181 votes

Yes. And games were 20 times harder to finish, even if you were winning lane really hard. They've made it easier to capitalize on an early lead so that games won't be an endless slog for everybody involved. They've done a pretty great job at that, because average game time is down while not taking away any player agency.

It was always afking until Baron came up, then you grabbed it and hoped you could end with that one push. Extremely binary, extremely boring for the losing team and even the winning team. People just look at it with nostalgia goggles like it was some kind of dreamland back then. Nope, it was as awful as it is right now and "awful" is a feeling any competitive game will leave you with when you get your ass handed to you. I don't feel any more or less angry at the game or getting shit on than I did 7 years ago.

FSRERDec 30, 20181 votes

I was...was.... item 3073 ...platinum 3 (thank you for going 3/10 platinum adcs) and in about 40% of my games i was matched with gold 1 players. And my mmr wasn't bad at all actually.

"So many noobs, will matchmaking ever find true balance?"

Th3 Rift HeroDec 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I was...was.......platinum 3 (thank you for going 3/10 platinum adcs) and in about 40% of my games i was matched with gold 1 players. And my mmr wasn't bad at all actually.

aw man you just remembered me my old waifu with this quote, i cant play her at all since her rework :/

Th3 Rift HeroDec 30, 20181 votes

im honestly surprised, 0 downvote lol xd

Nea104Dec 30, 20181 votes

Have you tried Nexus Blitz? It's the most disgusting and rigged sh thing ever seen. i don't even think it's just flawed and broken. It's intentionally made to ensure stomps.

13 - 31; 23 - 39; 50 - 6; 6 - 21 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/LosQGU6E-nexus-blitz-surprise-got-stomped-for-2-games-next-one-won-50-6-this-is-rigged

I don't think it's even legal, to actually control outcomes in a game. Hope someone will find how things actually are with Riot's code/system, and that someone will pay for it.

Also, what is even worse are people that cannot even realize it, and keep saying "it's just a fun mode / it's just a game". Wake up, goddam, don't you have eyes?

Th3 Rift HeroDec 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Have you tried Nexus Blitz? It's the most disgusting and rigged sh thing ever seen. i don't even think it's just flawed and broken. It's intentionally made to ensure stomps.

13 - 31; 23 - 39; 50 - 6; 6 - 21 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/LosQGU6E-nexus-blitz-surprise-got-stomped-for-2-games-next-one-won-50-6-this-is-rigged

I don't think it's even legal, to actually control outcomes in a game. Hope someone will find how things actually are with Riot's code/system, and that someone will pay for it.

Also, what is even worse are people that cannot even realize it, and keep saying "it's just a fun mode / it's just a game". Wake up, goddam, don't you have eyes?

idk about blitz i play ranked 95% of the time

No Chat SystemDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Have you tried Nexus Blitz? It's the most disgusting and rigged sh thing ever seen. i don't even think it's just flawed and broken. It's intentionally made to ensure stomps.

13 - 31; 23 - 39; 50 - 6; 6 - 21 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/LosQGU6E-nexus-blitz-surprise-got-stomped-for-2-games-next-one-won-50-6-this-is-rigged

I don't think it's even legal, to actually control outcomes in a game. Hope someone will find how things actually are with Riot's code/system, and that someone will pay for it.

Also, what is even worse are people that cannot even realize it, and keep saying "it's just a fun mode / it's just a game". Wake up, goddam, don't you have eyes?

No. You are just experiencing how many people are truly HORRID at managing objectives and team fighting. lol

Nea104Dec 30, 20181 votes

That should happen in my team as well as in the other team, with an equal probability. IF the teams were balanced, ie. made of players with similar skills. That's not what happens, and this is a serious point.

No Chat SystemDec 30, 20181 votes

I mean, for me it does feel about 50/50.

I tend to play well most of the time but every couple games I get 4 other people who just die and get no kills. I really truly assume it is simply bad play.

LeetriDec 31, 20181 votes

The problem is that you assume people are machines. Humans are extremely inconsistent, one game you can play Lucian and go 20/4, then the next game you go 2/15. Just look at Hashinshin, even though he can climb to diamond or above he still has several games where he has 5-7 times as many deaths as kills. He's clearly a good enough player since he can climb that far, but he's very inconsistent.

Also, it's probably legal to influence matchmaking since I believe Activision has a patent for a system that matches players in a way to maximize the probability players buy microtransactions.

ValiantKillerDec 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

like, dunno, its either coinflip if you win the game or not or fucking rigged(streaks happen too often even without change in gameplay) like srsly, no matter how well you play and how hard you try, there is too much games where you cant do shit to win the game, either teamfights are unwinnable, teammates are feeding over 9000, there is a troll, no one defend, ranks disecrepancy is way too high, you cant end the game, etc. And then you lose over 20 lp for games where you have 0 control over even altough you had a s, this is honestly bringing me to the point of near insanity.

Welcome to matchmaking and why it make people quitting game slowly. Cause you can't solo carry yet you suppose to rank up somehow when you lose about 21lp when you have been doing well in game and got that nice S yet you lose that game cause some of your teammates got aproblem.

And yet in same time that enemy who you put into 1-10 KDA with 70 less CS get that sweet 19lp gain cause he got a better teammates who carried him in ranks.

AORVALDec 30, 20181 votes

The real reason is just damage being too high. People are dying more early game because of the damage buffs in the patch that introduced Runes Reforged. Every champion got damage buffs, armor nerfs, which causes more chaos. Then runes reforge itself grants way too much as is. You can dominate your lane, but your enemy laner can still 1v1 you for some reason even though theyre 3/7 and youre 12/1.

Handy Sandy Dec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The real reason is just damage being too high. People are dying more early game because of the damage buffs in the patch that introduced Runes Reforged. Every champion got damage buffs, armor nerfs, which causes more chaos. Then runes reforge itself grants way too much as is. You can dominate your lane, but your enemy laner can still 1v1 you for some reason even though theyre 3/7 and youre 12/1.

thats been a thing since forever. Yasuo can always 1v1 Lux because his kit is suited for 1v1 and lux isn't a very good duelist. now if it's a 3/7 Sion 1v1ing a Fiora that's a whole different story.

Handy Sandy Dec 31, 20181 votes

matchmaking isn't that bad

Th3 Rift HeroDec 31, 20181 votes

For all the people asking about how i think ranked could be improved imma do an elaborate technical post later on gameplay boards.

Death0038Jan 1, 20191 votes

CakeMix my last game fighthing a huge fight in jg we got a chogath tank and im well fed, so we enagage casue ennemy team and lietteraly the chogath took one skill shot and left teh fight meanwhile our entire team was commited to it. We all saw him leave and blaintely leave his team for his score. Yes pissed me off flammed about litteraly 2 misn telling him what he did was totaly wrong even the karma and than the bastard crie for report loll reported me for calling him out got a 10 game chat ban welcome to riot !