I dont get why your staff claims leblanc is a kite mage now.

Craft Zeppelin··54 votes·3,511 views
Am I the only one who thinks the range you need to break Leblancs chain is way to far?

As from a rioter, leblanc has been formally called a kite mage rather than a assassin. If so, why are you nerfing out the damage she does to minions? And why even bother to attach a delayed burst to her kits? Thats not mage like in any way. And if you really want her to be a kite mage, you shall rather consider crazy stuff like doubling up the missle speed of her chains so she can accurately kite. I could see the community bursting into outrage. If youre making such an overhaul why is your company even hesitating? Like your single kite mage in the game, which is Ahri is BROKE Im telling you, that 15 games is good enough to master her from statistic websites and get like over 53%. If transitioning leblanc is not done yet, I say a winrate like 48% was a mediocre attempt to imitate this.

If you want to make something innovating by mixing both roles, this is being executed rather poorly I say because she is currently losing both qualities every patch. You need to address her previous strengths again rather than things that she never had.

First of all, her basic kit does no damage at all, and her passive has like 80% ap ratio, this is not healthy at all for a champion. And this sort of overloadedness reminds me of machine gun kog which had all in his W. Next is that her clone is virtually uncontrollable. Where did the deceptive part went?

52 Comments

nm101017 votes

It's Fizz Enthusiast, I'm pretty sure Meddler just tells him to go play on the forums while the adults work (I joke). But for real he has made a lot of comments that are fairly short sighted.

Sexy Jack Rabbit9 votes

You joke but it seems accurate. He caused a MASSIVE Scarecrow issue about the balancing of Lee Sin. He started a fire and then never bothered to put it out.

The League community is amongst the touchiest, and I don't think it's smart to let someone like FE onto the boards, let alone talk to the community considering his current track record. There was the rioter who made the boards post about Zed's ultimate not being removed anymore with QSS, and tbh I don't think i've seen that Rioter since. He worded the post SO badly that the shitstorm that ensued was horrible.

Velzard of Koz2 votes

What Lee Sin discussion are we talking about? When has that happened? I think I've missed it O_o I saw some post about how they want Lee Sin in spotlight which got hated, is that the one?

Sexy Jack Rabbit9 votes

The discussion was "If you refuse to nerf over-performing junglers because of the competetive scene, why not buff Under-performing Junglers instead?" FE then commented that for certain champions to see competitive play that would need to see changes to their kit.

That was not what the original poster was asking at all, they were asking why Riot refused to buff weak junglers and refusing to nerf the strong ones. Not why those Junglers weren't seeing competitive play. FE however continued the discussion with about how people were circle-jerking the issue of Lee Sin not being nerfed, which once again, was not what anyone was discussing.

Not too mention throughout the discussion he brought up 'facts' that weren't facts at all. Examples such as Lee Sin's win rate at the time and bringing up how Malphite and XinZhao are amongst the most popular champions, when neither even scratched close to a 6% playrate at the time or even now.

Not too say the man is stupid or that he's entirely wrong all the time, just that he's VERY unprofessional and incredibly mis-informed. He even ends his comment with "Design is a compromise and these are tough questions with no clear answer", which is ironic considering he never even answered anyone's questions.

You can read the full discussion here; http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ac9AE1sX-if-you-dont-want-to-touch-lee-cause-hes-cometitive-why-you-dont-buff-underperforming-junglers and take from it what you will, but the general consensus from the post was that no one really likes FE commenting on their posts.

Even following the initial post that this current post references, he mentions Riot shifting Leblanc's identity and then doesn't comment further, he brings about more questions then he answers, without even addressing the Original post. He would have been better off leaving the post be.

EDIT: Only just come to realize that my comments on the post have a lot of upvotes. I can see how this may sway opinions, but my initial point still stands.

Nameless Voice1 votes

The thing is, though - he's actually being honest.

As much as we hate what he posts, that doesn't change the fact that it's true that Riot intentionally play favourites with Lee Sin and have refused to fix his issues for years, because he's flashy, popular, and they like to see him in the esports scene.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

The issue wasn't in him being honest, it was in him being completely oblivious to what the post was even about. He created an entire discussion about why certain see competitive play and others don't and that Riot balances the game according to Esports. The initial post was not ABOUT Lee sin, but it did mention Lee sin. When people called him out for basically saying "We balance over Esports", he then called people out for "Circle-jerking Lee Sin Nerfs". He literally pissed people off by talking about something that had nothing to do with the post, and when people reacted he told them to stop circle-jerking.

Even with the release of the new Dev Blog post that follows up on Riot's opinion on the Assassin update, we find out that what FE said about Leblanc being pushed into the direction of a Kite Mage is absolute bullshit. So tbh I don't know if he was even being honest in the first place, and was instead just talking out of his ass. They intend to push her into a direction that makes her an Assassin with Mage elements, such as Crowd Control at the cost of a short Assassination time.

nm101010 votes

A very brief summary (in no way an exact quote)

  • "We don't like nerfing Lee too hard because he is good for esports"

  • Everyone gets mad

  • "Its really annoying how everyone is so mad when we have nerfs on the PBE already"

Idk maybe because you openly said esport success affects balance decisions?

I honestly think he also edited some of his more abrasive comments, but I kind of don't find the guy easy to agree with so it might just be selective memory getting the best of me.

Sexy Jack Rabbit6 votes

Your version is more succint then mine. He does edit his comments, it shows in the imgur image from this post; http://imgur.com/gNomjBv vs the actual comment on the post. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gZcBNVGn-am-i-the-only-one-who-thinks-the-range-you-need-to-break-leblancs-chain-is-way-to-far?comment=002d

nm10104 votes

To be honest he disappeared for a few weeks and I thought they pulled him off the boards for his Lee and Malzahar comments.

SweedishGunner1 votes

What did he say about Malz?

nm10103 votes

He said every change Malz received in 6.23 (the voidling change) was a buff outside of the hp change. After the AoE bug fix the new hp system is a buff in most scenarios while having 2 charges of voidlings is also a nerf outside of just running up e w w someone (see current Malzahar support that bush camps to do this) due to less attack speed to split + lower overall splitting time (down from 8 seconds to 3).

So you actually lose dps until a high amount of ap (that I'm not going to calculate at the moment) if your voidlings are actively hitting things throughout their duration. You also have a longer cd on your maximum voidling potential due to the charge system having the same cd as previously.The voidlings also lost movespeed increase vs malefic visioned targets past 600 range.

Edit:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xAE9rpUb-about-the-reworked-malzahar-voidlings?comment=000f

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xAE9rpUb-about-the-reworked-malzahar-voidlings?comment=000f00000001

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

In his defense, and I think I'm going to need to word this carefully, what we see here is a straight right down the middle line in the difference of opinions between Riot and The Community. The entire thing was about "Why hadn't Lee been nerfed a long time ago", which is a very unfair question in the terms, but this is where the fire started. Riot, or at least FE, may have a different view on Lee Sin which makes him less hated in their eyes. Riot may have never seen Lee as a problem, but the Community has, and this is the disconnect.

We have FE being asked, "Why haven't you nerfed him before now", and what is he going to say to that? "We haven't seen him as a problem before now, you guys just suck." or anything at all near that degree constitutes between the two groups a stated difference of opinion. FE simply may not understand how we see things, but at that point in the thread, I think he was screwed no matter what he said. The Community does not like being wrong, for how could they be?

Inarticulate he may be, but I don't think he deserves all the blame.

ChaosThief2 votes

I wouldn't say he isn't allowed to go on the boards, but I would say that people... are quite brutal when it comes to whatever a rioter says.

There's a reason that rioters are afraid of posting things.

LEBLANKKK TIME12 votes

COMPLETELY WRONG OF THEM literally months after the ASSASSIN UPDATE they decide she's not assassin no more because of balance problems in the ASSASSIN KIT THEY MADE? Quite ridiculous they need to revert her back like they did with kog if they have issues with the wave clear.

Craft Zeppelin3 votes

{quoted}

COMPLETELY WRONG OF THEM literally months after the ASSASSIN UPDATE they decide she's not assassin no more because of balance problems in the ASSASSIN KIT THEY MADE? Quite ridiculous they need to revert her back like they did with kog if they have issues with the wave clear.

Its like adding a spammable varus Q to garen, then nerfing all of his other kits-then proceeding to claim that garen is a adc. It doesnt make sense at all. She is losing what was thought to be her strengths every patch. And losing her new strong parts as well.

They need to readdress what were they planning on, like I dont get a hell they are even talking by now.

Snowplosion5 votes

Old LeBlanc was far worse than this one. At least now her burst is delayed.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

What use is a delayed burst when it is twice as strong as before? Just look at riots ridiculous attempts to nerf her. E dmg down, Q dmg down, waveclear down when she simply deals too much dmg due to her passive. Tone down her early dmg and give her better scaling off of it. It's a joke she can nearly oneshot a 130 MR swain during his ult with only Morrelos.

Snowplosion3 votes

It's a joke she can nearly oneshot a 130 MR swain during his ult with only Morrelos

Wait, what?

Ralanr10 votes

{quoted}

What use is a delayed burst when it is twice as strong as before? Just look at riots ridiculous attempts to nerf her. E dmg down, Q dmg down, waveclear down when she simply deals too much dmg due to her passive. Tone down her early dmg and give her better scaling off of it. It's a joke she can nearly oneshot a 130 MR swain during his ult with only Morrelos.

Gives more time to play around.

NineTailedMystic5 votes

What does it matter if the burst is twice as strong, when its overkill?

Abyssphere3 votes

How does a Swain have 130 MR when LeBlanc has only Morellonomicon?

Anidan4 votes

Shh shh... we only speak in exaggerations on the Boards, my sweet summer child.

Pimasterchampion1 votes

maybe swain mid rushing abyssal and visage

I rarely get that much mr in a game.

Remove Jungle2 votes

{quoted}

COMPLETELY WRONG OF THEM literally months after the ASSASSIN UPDATE they decide she's not assassin no more because of balance problems in the ASSASSIN KIT THEY MADE? Quite ridiculous they need to revert her back like they did with kog if they have issues with the wave clear.

she is not an assassin anymore because the 1.5 delay.

pre-rework leblanc main over here. I totally dislike the new lb.

old leblanc overall had far less dmg but faster burst. + her chain had a really small hitbox + you could ez flash out of it.

all they did is remove the Q passive to her passive it self. and make all her abilities easier to hit

i tried to play her but na you cant survive going assassin build into the late game. cuz you need to stick on your target for 1.5sec. so i gave up on her not playing her anymore :'(

I watched pros they are all building her more like a mage now. but i do understand riot tho. if they want to keep this 1.5 sec passive the chainz need to do what they are doing now. or she wil be totaly useless.

all you guys on the forum want her to be like old leblanc but still have the 1.5 dmg delay. that will gut leblanc really hard.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

her chain had a really small hitbox + you could ez flash out of it.

lol

Remove Jungle1 votes

{quoted}

lol

why lol? it is true old lb had the same hit box as nidalee Q. this leblanc has a hitbox same as morg Q.

nm10101 votes

I can post pictures

https://i.gyazo.com/70979ccf5dfcc2007548346202d46aae.png

That missed.

######If you saw that edit we don't speak of it, I didn't pay attention to the levels LOL.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

And you're right it was like Nid Q. Fucking bonkers ass hitbox that missed when it should have hit and hit when it should have missed and is incredibly crippling to be hit by, while not very punishing to be missed.

Remove Jungle1 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/5g8H80R.png

I'm sorry?

yh but that was a visual bug. if you had your spell on non-auto cast u could see the hit box bro. IDK why riot never fixed that of leblanc

Mafia LeBlanc3 votes

Idk, according to lolalytics and champion.gg she's in a good spot.

On average she's got about 49~% winrate, and imo there are more important bans than LB - I'd say she needs way more than 15 or so games to get used to her ult and everything - to play her to her potential takes a long time.

GayFluffyUnicorn12 votes

What. She is P/B in LCS and she is P/B in soloQ high elo. Mains sitting on 90% winrate. She is outright broken and disgusting.

Pale Pirate5 votes

Champion.gg statistics can be painfully inaccurate at times, how can you possibly believe mains have a 90% win rate? Like, seriously, this is basically saying that whoever mains Leblanc transforms into apdo / dopa. I am a Leblanc main with very mediocre results on the new Leblanc, and all the Leblanc mains I've talked to are dissatisfied.

Please don't believe anything you see people, use your brain and reject misinformation...

Cosmic Warper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=0 oxros piratis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AqHliuP3,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-31T14:45:41.607+0000)

Champion.gg statistics can be painfully inaccurate at times, how can you possibly believe mains have a 90% win rate? Like, seriously, this is basically saying that whoever mains Leblanc transforms into apdo / dopa. I am a Leblanc main with very mediocre results on the new Leblanc, and all the Leblanc mains I've talked to are dissatisfied.

Please don't believe anything you see people, use your brain and reject misinformation...

https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=nhcdy https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=wvvwwv https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=sensualflow

60-70% winrate for having over 40 games on a champion is still busted. Champion.gg has become extremely inaccurate as of late. Better to just use op.gg

nm10104 votes

Using win rates from mains in high elo is pretty unfair considering mains with a 70% winrate aren't uncommon, for instance I could link apdo's stats for just about any argument I wanted

https://i.gyazo.com/022e8a9909d4079d307f9c3b1825cad9.png

Edit: To clarify LeBlanc needs nerfs, I'm just pointing out your flawed logic.

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

Using win rates from mains in high elo is pretty unfair considering mains with a 70% winrate aren't uncommon, for instance I could link apdo's stats for just about any argument I wanted

https://i.gyazo.com/022e8a9909d4079d307f9c3b1825cad9.png

Edit: To clarify LeBlanc needs nerfs, I'm just pointing out your flawed logic.

??? Those are all like <5 games each other than corki. Not statistically significant at all

Anidan4 votes

that fucking 94% twitch win-rate with 57 games, though. Christ.

nm10101 votes

There was a Korean player in s5 that had a 100% orianna winrate over ~140 games (he exclusively played ranked 5's though)

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=LeBlanc or Troll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AqHliuP3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-31T04:55:22.309+0000)

and imo there are more important bans than LB

Camille and? nothing

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

Jesus Christ, they never said she was a Kite Mage. He said "push her more towards the kite mage direction...". If you compare her to Ahri, you can see a lot of comparisons. Both need to land their CC to reliably off load damage, both stick around the edge of a fight, dashing in then out when they get the chance to kill, and both are meant to be slippery. Ahri is just more into the Mage side of it, while Leblanc is more into the assassin side.

You need to stop thinking in boxes. There isn't a Mage box, and Assassin box, where Leblanc is put in one or the other. It's a spectrum when it comes to AP champions, with Mages on the left, Assassins on the right, and Kite Mages in the middle. Leblanc is still on the Assassin side, but is being pushed a little left, the way where Kite Mage is.

They're not "Fully" converting her, they're pushing her more towards a healthier state, which is better than just "Lol you got close, be dead". She's still an assassin, but she's losing some damage for having CC and mobility that helps make the CC hard to get out of. "Woah, they're fully converting" my ass. I'd rather have Leblanc who can root me for a second or two, and then kill me, than a Leblanc who doesn't even need to E me. Full Assassin Leblanc isn't good for anyone, and pushing her down the middle of the spectrum is the healthiest thing we can do.

Pale Pirate6 votes

Noone asked for a magier Leblanc. Everyone is complaining that assassins are no longer assassins, so they don't want Leblanc actually turned into even magier.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Remember when Leblanc was well and truly an assassin? When she didn't even need E to kill you? The entire point of the Assassin update was to give assassins more levers of balance to balance them around, while increasing the time to kill allowing for people to actually respond. THEY ARE NOT TURNING HER INTO A MAGE. They're making a healthier version of Leblanc who can still kill people within her kill time, but giving people time to outplay.

But to do this, yes, she is going to become a bit more mage like. You run the risk of that when it comes to AP Champions, because of how they work on a spectrum. But she is still an assassin. She still bursts like a motherfucker, so who cares if she "plays a little more" like a mage. I'm sorry, that people who used to play Old Leblanc actually have to put some thought into killing someone.

New Leblanc forces people to land her E, which is easy 1v1, but becomes much harder in a teamfight, because that means staying within 1000 meters of an entire team, for 1.5 seconds before it snares. She is still an assassin, who is slightly closer to the kite mage line than before, but sacrifices need to be made for game health.

Canastus3 votes

They claim the same when it comes to Ahri, yet she still is considered an assassin when it comes to the upcoming Bloodmoon event-gamemode. Because that's exactly what she is. She lands one charm and the fight's won at that point, there's no way to recover after that without getting blown up.

It's the same toxic shit Nidalee used to pull off when her spear throw was the strongest ability to spam with, once she landed one hit it was gg. Ahri promotes a low risk, high reward approach which is inherently toxic.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

And why even bother to attach a delayed burst to her kits? Thats not mage like in any way.

Actually, a lot of Mages have some kind of delay in their burst. Not everyone is Annie. Also, apart of the act she would not be keeping the burst in order to be really kiting mage, not every Mage is Burst Mage, not every Mage bursts the same way. LeBlanc would that way fit partially a Battle Mage and these are the ones with usually sustained damage rather than burst.

Onkel Malte1 votes

I actually have footage of the clone standing still for 10 seconds, then bugging around a corner and then disappearing.

And yeah she is a assassin/kite mage right now because that's the best you can do while you wait way too long for that horrible passive burst.

If they just made the delay a little shorter and put some power from her passive to the rest of her kit she might actually be a good assassin.

Venomar1 votes

I mean, being unable to get anywhere near her for fear of being bursted 100-0 in a passive proc chain combo would surely make her good at kiting, so they're not wrong.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

Leblanc has had ~ a 51% winrate for a few patches now, I don't even see the big problem with her. Over all the games I've played against her post rework I've only lost about 2 games. In my opinion she lost too much of her identity by making her a chain reliant champion. The change that she needs is that her Chains should proc the root before it procs the passive, forcing her to either move in a predictable path to Q, or W in. Think about it, when was the last time a Leblanc didn't opt to use chains twice to get a kill? Only when its on cooldown right? Her chains are completely overloaded, and since they synergize best with her passive, they are by default, the most efficient ability in her kit. Once this change is done, steps can be taken to increase her damage/ redistribute power from her chains to her q and W and bring her back into the state of the assassin she was before she was reworked.

As for the obligatory Ahri shot that you took, 15-50 games bud, and her high winrate comes from an average playerbase game amount of ~ 80 from previous seasons, So MOST of the people who player her are mains. And don't forget that people who only play 1-5 games are practically outliers when taken into account, so they drag that avg game statistic way farther down than it would be without them. Usually every season about 70% of all games on her come from people who have played her 15-125+ games. And assuming that people are playing her first time in ranked, and taking 15 games to master her is completely delusional. With all the hate on people who first time champs in ranked, you would think that they would take her to normals first.

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AqHliuP3,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-02-01T02:10:29.203+0000)

Leblanc has had ~ a 51% winrate for a few patches now, I don't even see the big problem with her. Over all the games I've played against her post rework I've only lost about 2 games. In my opinion she lost too much of her identity by making her a chain reliant champion. The change that she needs is that her Chains should proc the root before it procs the passive, forcing her to either move in a predictable path to Q, or W in. Think about it, when was the last time a Leblanc didn't opt to use chains twice to get a kill? Only when its on cooldown right? Her chains are completely overloaded, and since they synergize best with her passive, they are by default, the most efficient ability in her kit. Once this change is done, steps can be taken to increase her damage/ redistribute power from her chains to her q and W and bring her back into the state of the assassin she was before she was reworked.

As for the obligatory Ahri shot that you took, 15-50 games bud, and her high winrate comes from an average playerbase game amount of ~ 80 from previous seasons, So MOST of the people who player her are mains. And don't forget that people who only play 1-5 games are practically outliers when taken into account, so they drag that avg game statistic way farther down than it would be without them. Usually every season about 70% of all games on her come from people who have played her 15-125+ games. And assuming that people are playing her first time in ranked, and taking 15 games to master her is completely delusional. With all the hate on people who first time champs in ranked, you would think that they would take her to normals first.

I only addressed ahri because she is the only kiting mage as riot coins is. blame them.

But may I ask where on earth did your statistic numbers came from. I guess from your statement that 12% of all the midlaners in this whole game are ALL devouted ahri mains. And her pickrate is 2nd place. Excuse me, but were you seriously thinking you were picking some niche champ? This strongly reminds me of one japanese PVP game that a certain playerbase just refused critisism and fact numbers because the character in question looked "cute". I see the same thing going on with the ahri playerbase. I think it was sponsered by square enix themselves.

https://champion.gg/champion/Ahri Come on. youre plat

Back to the topic, It is known that Ahri has a low skill floor, moderate ceiling, low-risk, near CONSTANT profit, and the ability to maintain control in the lane in her favor due to her mobility and sustain and auto-targeting spells. Is this good for the game? Maybe not, or maybe it is since 12% of the population plays her. But that is riot to decide as much as this leblanc rework, but I sure would not want this to be the direction of leblanc. And I see the trend now for her is actually to make her like dumbed down version of ahri.

Hell no please. I played leblanc since season 4. Even before faker started playing her at worlds and the whole bandwagon started. Its not about her now having her a 505 winrate, she is losing ALL for it.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

The pie chart on champion.gg isn't working right now so I cant show you the current stuff, however over the last few seasons the % of players who play 1-5 games on her is ~ 15% while the % of 5-15 games is ~15-18%, meaning only about 30-33% of her playerbase only plays that many games. The avg winrate for those amounts of games is about 49%. the next pie chart area (15-50) goes up to about 25% of the playerbase or something, with the rest of the % being 50+ games. This is pretty uncommon on many champions, but with these statistics it can be infered that most of the people who play her keep playing her. So roughly 8.4% of the games played on her are by either mains, or people who play her as a secondary pick or something like that.

As soon as the pie chart on Champion.gg comes back up ill show you what i'm talking about.

But about Leblanc, her whole identity could be saved if the relationship between the chain and the passive proc was changed, because currently her main damage ability is her E. This is pretty unhealthy for the game because as you said before, the range that it can extend is ridiculous. I completely agree that she is being taken into the wrong direction too, her rework inadvertently made her a mage, rather than an assassin. What they should do is make it so that her chains only do more damage for one proc, but her Q or W gains an amp damage for procing the passive mark.

Its hard to say what the best possible fix is for her kit, because Riot have pretty much dedicated her W and Q to waveclear, leaving only her chains as a dedicated PvP damage ability. Really, the only fix I can really see to maintain her identity as an assassin is if power is taken out of her E and its relationship with the passive, and distributed to either her Q or W and their relationship with the passive. Idk, maybe make it so that if W procs the passive it will do damage in an Aoe, or if Q procs it, it will do extra damage to that individual. This is of course, at the expense of her E being nerfed. But as I said before, her E should really lose the 2 Proc thing because it is ruining the identity of her kit because of its relationship to her passive.

Man, you really need to chill for a bit, I was just saying that you are misinterpreting statistics (sorry if I sounded bitter, I'm kind of no filter today, I really don't mean any offense.)

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