Why Frost Queen’s Claim Isn’t So Hot After All

RocketRelm··2 votes·2,070 views

Now, this is an item I’ve thought about ever since the Support Item changes were first introduced. I’ve been playing it mid lane on Mid Morgana the second it hit live, and I’ve been loving it. I’m so glad people are finally beginning to tap into the power of this item, primarily so I can stop worrying about being flamed as a scrub for taking a support item mid lane. My main worry is that the item’ll get absolutely gutted now, but it hasn’t yet and I’m having fingers crossed.

Most consistent mistake people make when they build Frost Queen’s Claim? Building Frost Queen’s Claim. Seriously. It’s actually kind of mediocre, and sure it looks nice on paper, but that’s actually because Frostfang is completely fucked and a lot of that simply carries over.

Let’s look at the “on paper” version a different way. Upgrading Frostfang to Frost Queen’s Claim, what do you get? (Note I mostly discounted the mana regen before because once you have Dorans and Frost and cunning mastery it’s mostly superfluous, but Rito’s removing it full stop now anyway) 1400 g 35 AP = 761.25g 10% CDR = 300g Spooky Ghosts. Gold passive slightly easier to proc. (1061.25g total) Hrm. 75.8% efficient before Spooky Ghosts. As a completed item you’ll want more than 100% efficiency anyway, saying about 115% makes it 1610 gold worth. Is spooky ghosts worth ~550 gold to you, so early in the game when you ‘need’ raw stats? And additionally taking yourself 1400g I don’t think so.

The only two major arguments I can see in favor of upgrading this item fully is that Mages are just that strapped for CDR options (which I fully admit is kind of a point), and that lots of Mid Laners have difficulty proccing the item (and if you have to then consider it, but any mid laner that can afford not to shouldn’t).

Let’s compare to what Frostfang gives you as a stand-alone option, because the question then becomes “is Frostfang a worthy purchase by itself”? 850 g 15 AP = 326.25g 100% Mana Regen = 500g Absurd Gold Generation. Absurd Damage Passive. ~97% efficient (and yes I listed the damage and gold separately for a reason=see below), and gives you a truckload of gold.

http://i.imgur.com/xBkEpMj.png

Mana Regeneration was costed higher last season, and yet the need is higher now, when other mana regen items have been kicked down and mana pots have been removed. You can theoretically price the Mana Regen at last season’s prices, at 180 per 25% instead of 125 per 25%.

Additionally, the damage passive is bonkers. Like, seriously crazy. Taking Mid Morgana as an example, if you’re fizz, and you go in for a cs, and I drop puddle under your feet and you take 3 procs, that’s 45 damage to you in addition to 45 g for me.

We can roughly take the average damage interaction between me and the enemy mid laner every 30 seconds as 1.8 AP (aka one snare-soil). All-Ins are more, but skirmishes are less like the one listed above. How much AP do you need to cause 45 Damage on that 1.8 Ratio (warning, the following uses Algebra)? 1.8X = 30 Seconds 45 = 30 Seconds Therefore: 45 = 1.8X (45)/1.8 = (1.8X) / 1.8 Equals 25. So this means that assuming your interactions with the enemy are limted to 1.8 AP ratio every 30 seconds on average, and you get your procs off, this damage passive is worth 25 AP.

25+15 = 40 AP worth *blasting rod = 40 AP

Therefore: Frostfang is as powerful as a Blasting Rod in terms of lane interactions, except with 100% Mana Regeneration and roughly 100 gp per minute.

Do note that it loses most of this latent ‘AP worth’ once you get to teamfight phase, but remember that we’re talking about a 97% efficient item with gold passives as baseline, before any of this “But Wait There’s More”ing. By time you get to heavy teamfight phase you shoudla made 400+ gp off the item and bought yourself another AP tome for 20 more ACTUAL AP worth.

TL:DR: What was supposed to be the Cull of Mid Lane wound up being the Brutalizer, and upgrading it to Frost Queen’s Claim wasn’t ever the biggest issue.

Side note, please don’t start with Spellthief’s Edge as a midlaner, the item is extremely inefficient and having the doran’s ring just gives you way too much power comparatively. You’ll usually get enough on your first back for a frostfang anyway.

Second Side Note, I love Frostfang being a useful item in mid lane, and if/when it gets nerfed I really hope it’ll be a way that allows it to stay viable in mid, because this is perhaps the first mana regeneration item I feel good about rushing in a long while

7 Comments

Ionian2 votes

Frostfang's passive (idk which) gets disabled for a while if you kill a minion, while frost queen's doesn't. I think that's the main reason why people upgrade it.

RocketRelm1 votes

Yeah, and some champions have difficulty using the gold passive without that. However several champions 'can'. The stacking mechanism doesn't get disabled, just the ability to proc it. So if you proc it 3 times, then clear the wave, you don't get 12-20 seconds where stacks stop accruing, which is how I imagine a lot of people 'do' see it.

Ionian2 votes

I think the ghosts are actually worth a lot more than you give them credit for, even in the early game. It finds the enemy jungler, protecting you from a gank, it slows for days = easy skillshots, and gives vision on invisible units. I tried it a bit and upgrading to frost queen is definitely viable, but it's getting a nerf next patch so I won't really bother with this build anymore. http://prntscr.com/9g0vfw

RocketRelm1 votes

I agree that the ghosts are worth more than 0 gold and that Spooky Ghosts "is" pretty nice when used correctly, but I think it's champion dependent and largely about what you're giving up by rushing for Spooky Ghosts. Typically in most games with an opposing AP mid I go for an Abyssal Rush, which DoranRing+2Pot+Frostfang+Sorc+Abyss=4720 gp, and with runes/masteries gives 15 sorc + 20 abyss + 15 rune/masteries = 50 functional Penetration, "very" early in the game, along with the mana to sustain yourself. It may be closer to 5k depending on how many other pots and Pinks you buy, as a warning.

Against most non-tank targets this makes you deal True Damage when in abyssal range if you're ahead on gold. Putting this power spike back by 1400 gold makes it significantly less worthwhile not only because you don't get it for the intermittent time, but because when you do get it people will have scaled their by-lvl resistances up and perhaps gotten an MR item. I will admit that I don't know Ahri well and therefore can't tell how relevant the power spike you're delaying it for is, or how much she can proc the frost fang without the queen's removal of the restriction.

Also the "nerf" Frost Queen is getting is -50% Mana Regen from what I know, if that's the only nerf it's getting I don't think it's validity will change that much, as that last 50% mana regen was a bit superfluous.

Ionian1 votes

With her high autoattack range and triple hit with W it's easy to proc frost queen. The nerf also includes the return of the 12s penalty for killing minions.

RocketRelm1 votes

When i say "frost proc" and on Queen or sticking to basic Frost I meant the ability to reliably proc it in lane while getting around the minion killing restriction. Some champions have a harder time dealing with that than others.

Also this is the latest info I'm running on, did I miss something? Far as I knew they reverted that bit. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/12/1216-pbe-update.html

Frost Queen's Claim Previous Tribute changes reverted; no longer disables for 12 sec after killing a minion. Base Mana regeneration lowered to 100% from 150% Active slow duration now scales from 2 to 5 seconds based how far the ghosts have traveled from 4 seconds.

Faith Breaker1 votes

Well when someone uploads a video saying an item is OP, then that makes that item OP, wether it is or not. Because people that think for themselves wouldn't be watching other people's videos about other people's opinons about how other people play the game, they'd go and play the game for themselves. But league isn't people so.

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