Fiddlesticks has been indirectly nerfed to hell

IziMytTJd7·Dec 15, 2016·78 votes·4,175 views

Every one of his core items (except rabs) has lost 20-30 ap over the past year for virtually no usable compensation. At the same time, the jungle has become uninhabitable for mages. Attempts to compensate with dark wind buffs are laughable, and also unhealthy (too much rng and unearned damage, that ultimately does not redeem him as a champion).

Fiddle used to be a niche pick that required careful counterplay through map awareness and vision. Now, I don't even know what he is. It feels like he doesn't currently belong in the game. He used to be one of the few champions that was strong when neglected, but very managable with the correct strategy. But now everything he used to count on as a strength has been destroyed. I don't really know how to fix it. Maybe a rework, to make him more compatible with the new items that he was once balanced around.

53 Comments

NipsahoyDec 15, 201611 votes

You just have to build him AD fiddle. I call the build Crittlesticks. It's op as heck! LONG REIGN CRITTLESTICKS!

ZelorxonDec 15, 20168 votes

Elise Evelynn Diana hi fiddle, wanna join our club? Fiddlesticks Hey there ladies, what are you up tonight? Have any plans?

TeCoolMageDec 15, 20163 votes

Have any plants*

Zyra what the hell guys I want in on this jungler club too!!!

ZelorxonDec 15, 20162 votes

Don't google "zyra x elise" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ~~by the way zyra is good, why would she ever join that club?~~

TheOnlyJoeDec 15, 201613 votes

Diana and Elise are pretty viable though?

RainbowIceeDec 15, 20163 votes

Yes they are, elise is pretty strong atm tbh. And diana is far from being weak. Her ganks could be better but she already packs a really strong punch.

LeeerzeichenDec 15, 20162 votes

The funny thing is that both Diana and Elise have a worse winrate than aatrox in the jungle.

ShaolinToiletDec 16, 20164 votes

Did you even stop to think about playrate

TheGr8WhiteDDec 15, 20163 votes

Diana doesnt have any pressure pre6, and her scaling really isnt high enough to compensate it. Elise is viable, but Diana jg really isnt.

BlåbæretDec 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Diana doesnt have any pressure pre6, and her scaling really isnt high enough to compensate it. Elise is viable, but Diana jg really isnt.

Diana jng is definitely viable. She can clear the entire jungle at full hp. You basically power farm up to lvl 6 and by then your ganks are pretty strong. If you have a team that already fed within the first five minutes then I can definitely see where you're coming from.

Diana has some of the most insane scalings in the game lol. You basically go from doing no damage to oneshotting squshies with a W + R combo.

Penta PenguinDec 15, 20162 votes

elise has had strong moments every single year and regularly shows up in pro play...

ZelorxonDec 15, 20161 votes

She struggles in clearing the jungle keeping the same pace other junglers have (olaf/lee to give an example), also with the rylai's nerfs is true that she can try and snowball earlier, but this way she won't scale as good as she used to do, so you either play selflessly hoping for your team to carry you past lv9 or you can't apply an acceptable pressure to the map, especially comparing her with the meta junglers.

Diana is decent, she's always been snowball or die, but she's mostly a farming jungler, so we can't compare her with elise, but just the fact that the competition exists makes her slightly below viable, either the meta champs get nerfed or she gets some buffs (not in combat power, mana costs are mostly her problem even if she goes pot and runic), but nerfing meta champs would be the wrong move as they are even with other roles, meanwhile it is diana that struggles to keep their pace.

You guys don't have to look just at the champion, it's not how good the champion is or isn't, but also how good is what the champion is gonna face.

Penta PenguinDec 15, 20162 votes

Doesn't change the fact Elise has been 'Jungle Queen' at least once every year while Fiddle has gone somewhat underappreciated since the early days

BlåbæretDec 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Giggle Physics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Agc2UlcQ,comment-id=0006000200000000,timestamp=2016-12-15T21:18:40.471+0000)

Doesn't change the fact Elise has been 'Jungle Queen' at least once every year while Fiddle has gone somewhat underappreciated since the early days

And your point is exactly? Elise is one of the most balanced champs in the entire game. She's a relatively safe pick, which is why you see her at LCS and worlds. Past the early game she doesn't do much though, and that's the problem. The new jng hasn't been kind to her either. I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of mini-buff to her.

Fiddle has a toxic kit, which is why he shouldn't really get buffed. He'll get reworked eventually.

SchmidttyGamesDec 15, 20166 votes

Fiddlesticks is a huge pain in the ass in the Support Role. He seems to actually fit in very well there as a Poke/Harass Support.

Supreme Senpai69Dec 15, 20163 votes

Shhh. Don't let them find out. I was grinning ear to ear when I saw fiddle buffs.

Shadow HazardDec 15, 20161 votes

he was at a point not even considered an off meta support. He is still pretty solidly in the group of carry supports just very low pick rate.

Lintu PuckDec 15, 20162 votes

people always seem to forget champs that have Support listed as their secondary role >.>

ZedexDec 15, 20162 votes

He was, and then 2 seasons ago it was FoTM and Riot nerfed his reliable assets for duo laning. Now most supports do his job way better. If you're expecting the enemy to sit near their minions as fiddle for your crow bounce, you're going to be upset when you play against decent players and they don't fall into that tactic. They'll then proceed to shit all over Supp fiddlesticks with the likes of Thresh or Morgana.

SchmidttyGamesDec 15, 20161 votes

With the buff to his E and his ability to peel, he can still do the job today. Works very well against some of the more annoying picks like Zyra and even a straight counterpick to any melee support. Let's also mention that the support role isn't just for the dual bot lane, and Fiddlesticks is pretty decent in team fights if played correctly.

JmmanDec 15, 20161 votes

There is a few problems. (yes I play fiddle support) look at how much CC all the supports now have. Most have at least 2 cc's. Next look at all the dashes and flashes adc have. So when you ult in you get instant stun and the dps flashes away. It doesn't matter if you fear them because they "have" to complete the animation and that moves them out of your ult. Fiddle has a low range fear. Explain to me how that fear can stop Hec coming from the jungle and then Naut and ADC attacking you. You go to fear hec or Nau but they still complete there skill and the adc is still CCed. Sure it works in bronze..... but its a lot hard high lvl. Your under lvled and farm but you still have to hub the enemies to do damage. You have would have been better to pick a different support if you have to peel for the ADC. Theory craft is not the same at game play.

SchmidttyGamesDec 15, 20162 votes

Then try it. Fiddlesticks does have 2 CC's by the way. Your examples are meaningless only because they are scripted in your mind as what you think will happen, but it never goes down that way in any game.

Fiddy's Q is an automatic point and click peel. His point and click E will Silence bloody everybody and pokes reasonably hard. His ultimate is situational, and after you pick up a Zhonya's, it's just a circle of death you're forced to run away from.

I have lost to Fiddlesticks in Support this season because it is quite effective and extremely annoying. Fiddy can effectively silence you from the front end of a minion line. You can't get away from that damned bird once it's trained on you either. It forces you to split from your carry to avoid bounce damage, which by itself, is a strong tactical move.

Try the character in the role, or face one, before you tell me that it doesn't work. I've seen it work, and it's a bloody pain in the ass, as stated above.

JmmanDec 16, 20161 votes

Dude you hyper-pole much??

I listed why he has a problem and you go off on a rate about what "you" don't like about him.

What I listed aren't scripts they are HOW the coding works. If you don't understand how the game works why are you commenting on the balance of it? My point is how all this counters his kit. And how the coding unfairly hurts his kit. Your small child "brian" didn't read what I wrote. You just saw some words and filled in the blank.

Next you plan Morgan and Nami support with some thresh and your commenting on the CC and poke of fiddle. Really??? The crows hurt you because you don't know what it does. It bounces to the next "NONHIT or drain target"..... Meaning if you stood next to the minions instead of running away the crows would hit you once. When you back away from them then yes If can hit you multiple times. but when doing this you will always be pushed to their turrent...... I guess the jungle or mid didn't help you.

Just match history because on the name of the fiddle that beat you.... And yes I destroy fiddle support. But I use Blitz or naut.... and you use a mage support.... I wonder why you lost and now crying about a low win and play rate champ that can't find a home.

Fiddle main mid jungle and support since season one.

SchmidttyGamesDec 16, 20161 votes

Have you tried it recently? You don't think it should be, therefore it is not, hmm?

Sorry, life doesn't work that way. Fiddy is a viable support. Just because you don't think so, don't like it, or can't stand it, doesn't change the fact that he works in that role.

Get over yourself.

coreychichiDec 16, 20162 votes

Take your own advice hypocrite. You tell him something is not true just because he says it is. Then immediately claim the opposite to be true because you say it is.

Get over yourself.

JmmanDec 19, 20161 votes

Yes I have tried it a lot this season. Fiddle support or naut / allistar/ braum/ nami/ etc. You have no clue what you are talking a lot. I play ALOT OF SUPPORT.

Don't reply to anymore of my post. You are just making yourself sound and look dumb. He is not a good "support". I can take teemo support but that doesn't mean its good. How many times is this great LCS support picked in any of the tournaments.......

edit: the crows are a silence not a form of hard cc. so he only hard 1 cc.

MorgManBasherDec 15, 20165 votes

I use to be a fiddle main for a long time, but after years of nerfs I just couldn't do it anymore and gave up on the champion. I use to play him mid/jungle/support and loved him, it's a shame they destroyed him.

To people saying play him support, he's not worth the effort. Many champs do his job better.

aspects1Dec 15, 20163 votes

hes a support now

Lintu PuckDec 15, 20162 votes

he has always been part support >.> he IS listed Mage/Support after all

aspects1Dec 15, 201610 votes

but at least he was viable in jungle before, now he is only viable support, and riot appears to want it this way by buffing his e

Dominick DestineDec 15, 20162 votes

I tend to agree.

Bouncemaster ZacDec 15, 20162 votes

He's an outstanding poke support, and an okayish mid.

MorticianjohnDec 15, 20164 votes

He is ok at support but he is so squishy that being 2 levels down on the enemy is a huge problem for him while many other poke supports like lux, karma, morgana have some kind of sheild

TeCoolMageDec 15, 20161 votes

Zyra, Soraka, Brand and Zilean say hi

Downvoted for being right lmfao

Hyrum GraffDec 15, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Zyra, Soraka, Brand and Zilean say hi

Sure, but all of fiddle's damaging abilities require him to get close to enemies, and drain requires him to stand still. All of those you mentioned do not need to be nearly as much in harm's way in order to be useful.

IziMytTJd7Dec 15, 20162 votes

I'm pretty sure the majority of the community prefers Fiddle as a jungler. He is more dynamic and makes games more interesting that way. Unfortunately, Riot appears to only endorse him as a support now, as seen by their only buffing his poke damage, rather than improving his overall functionality.

Fiddle used to be purely a niche jungler with well-defined strengths and weaknesses/counters. Well-balanced overall (never saw pro play, but was quite strong in low elo). Then the pro scene picked up on the fact that he had a 3 second point-click hard cc, and support fiddle took off (to the chagrin of myself and many others). Of course, that led to Terrify being nerfed. Fiddle continued to suffer nerfs over time, even after his popularity dwindled. This included range nerfs to his Terrify and Drain range (and possibly damage, can't remember). Of course by this time jungle Fid was beaten into submission, with the changes to the jungle/jg items. Then over the past year it's been a case of beating a dead horse (wrong usage, but it works here!) with the brutal nerfs to every item he relied on (zhonyas, abyssal, rylai's).

A Basic IslandDec 16, 20162 votes

i miss the days of 3 second fear =(

Witch of BabylonDec 17, 20162 votes

I'm so sorry but I forgot Fiddlesticks existed.

TeCoolMageDec 15, 20161 votes

Maybe if drain didn't give him HP when smite already does

Geez riot what do you expect us to do with all this overcapped HP

Ooh mana restoration + shield, maybe? Now jungle fiddle is one frightening tanky scarecrow mofo that drives the swain ult back to his home

5000000000000000Dec 15, 20161 votes

If Drain also drained mana, you mean? That doesn't sound good.

TeCoolMageDec 16, 20161 votes

No, if it converted some of the health into mana

Being countered by riven or zed for no reason wouldn't be fair

TotalJerkDec 15, 20161 votes

Remember Runeglaive? Riot doesn't give a fuck about Fiddlesticks.

6SfoolDec 16, 20161 votes

Actually they changed it from runeglaive to runic echoes because of him.

TotalJerkDec 16, 20161 votes

They specifically stated that they knew runeglaive would hurt fiddlesticks when they released it. The switched to Runic Echos mainly because they realized runeglaive was hurting junglers they actually gave a shit about as well.

the weeabooDec 15, 20161 votes

Let him channel his drain into allies to heal them. Long live Fiddle support

Rem Was HereDec 15, 20161 votes

Morgana can still jungle.

xelakerDec 15, 20161 votes

ya'll must not remember the dark ages, where fid would 1v5 a team with item 3157 , his ult and a bird

Iźuku MidoriyaDec 15, 20161 votes

do you think courage would be strong on him?

6SfoolDec 16, 20161 votes

And as someone who takes him support, he got massive buffs patch after patch. Rylai's became more accessible, drain became efficient, COTC on demand, Dark Wind always up. His jungle is weak, but any more changes to help him jungle that involve direct buffs will make an absolutely broken support.