Frost Queen's Claim is ridiculous right now.

Rock MD·Dec 10, 2015·21 votes·2,187 views

If you're proccing it reliably you get 400-500 gold every 10 minutes. On top of that it's cheaper and has better regen than Morello's (which it's being used to replace). it also has a Spooky Ghosts active and it costs 300 less gold.

The AP and CDR are absolutely terrible but the item helps you hit the real powerspikes so much quicker. The item itself is disgusting and really needs some changes so that it goes back to being a support item.

If you don't believe me look at my match history.

33 Comments

chipndip1Dec 10, 20154 votes

Really, all they gotta do is make it so FQC goes on cd when you kill minions. The procs on it aren't as good as steady cs'ing, anyway, so if they can never get the procs do to cs'ing, what's the point?

Pasta Help DeskDec 10, 20153 votes

Yea more and more people are starting to catch on just how powerful this item is and the fact that mid laners are starting to take it when it was an item intended for ap supports, it just goes to show you that AP itemization isn't fine at all.

HupsisDec 11, 20153 votes

The biggest problem is the active. It is a 40% slow for 4 seconds! That is enough for most mid laners to land their combo and get a kill. It's also a huge ganking AND counter ganking tool. The active needs to be toned down. The slow duration should scale with the travel distance of the ghosts starting at 1 sec and maxing at 4 sec.

I'm ok if the mid laner trades early power for gold efficiency. I'm not ok when the enemy is guaranteed to have a kill every 60 seconds due to me not having a cleanse.

disregardableDec 10, 20152 votes

Oh, they removed the kill minion cd. That's a problem.

AbyssphereDec 10, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Af4I95ke,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-10T20:43:12.766+0000)

Oh, they removed the kill minion cd. That's a problem.

That has never been there on FQC. However, if it needs to be nerfed, IMO it needs to be put on it. Keeps it good for support while majorly limiting the opportunities for mid laners to proc it.

ZephyrDrakeDec 10, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Af4I95ke,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-10T20:43:12.766+0000)

Oh, they removed the kill minion cd. That's a problem.

frost queen never had the kill minion CD

CoolKnightSTDec 10, 20152 votes

item 3165 is indirectly nerfed with the GW changed. GW was always a situational stat so I have litterly no idea why they still didn't reworked it claiming that AP itematisation is fine now...

Curling VeigarDec 10, 20152 votes

I actually thought the same thing.... probably should be toned down

Dominick DestineDec 10, 20152 votes

Yes. It is being used on mids regularly, even I use it.

Pray that the coming nerf-bat assault will not gut it too badly..... supports always get caught in the crossfire,gg.

YumaS2AstralDec 10, 20152 votes

AP-based supports can't have good itemization because mid laners are always going to abuse it

Miku Lv99Dec 10, 20152 votes

Maybe we just need a real mid item that's like it, but better for mid champions. Like a real AP mana regen item. Something like morello but with like 150% MP5 and with some other ability instead of the rarely significantly useful grevious wounds.

And the Talisman of Ascension, Eye of the Oasis, and Eye of the Watchers need some buffs to get anywhere near the power level that is FQC. Right now these are very rarely used since they just can't compete with FQC. Even on someone passive like Janna, you can still get that extra 10% cdr, more AP, an extra huge 40% slow for 4 seconds on up to 2 enemy champions, even if they're invisible, with a gargantuan range + scouting, all in one item. Even if you don't poke much in lane it's so much better of an item it's still going to be better than the alternative on almost everybody right now. And that's not a good sign of balance.

AbyssphereDec 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Lv99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Af4I95ke,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-12-10T22:58:55.226+0000)

Maybe we just need a real mid item that's like it, but better for mid champions. Like a real AP mana regen item. Something like morello but with like 150% MP5 and with some other ability instead of the rarely significantly useful grevious wounds.

And the Talisman of Ascension, Eye of the Oasis, and Eye of the Watchers need some buffs to get anywhere near the power level that is FQC. Right now these are very rarely used since they just can't compete with FQC. Even on someone passive like Janna, you can still get that extra 10% cdr, more AP, an extra huge 40% slow for 4 seconds on up to 2 enemy champions, even if they're invisible, with a gargantuan range + scouting, all in one item. Even if you don't poke much in lane it's so much better of an item it's still going to be better than the alternative on almost everybody right now. And that's not a good sign of balance.

I think that's as much a problem with Coin as with FQC, though. They gutted Talisman in the pre-season to the point that it's... honestly just quite bad in a variety of ways. FQC is being taken on inappropriate champions, but that's no different to last season where people were taking Talisman on AP supports because Frost Queen's was terrible.

Frost Queen's needs some mid lane targeted nerfs but ideally should remain somewhat close to similarly effective on supports. Talisman needs its passive gold gen back.

BluePolarizerDec 10, 20151 votes

Frost Queen's Claim now having the ghosts active is a huge deal.

For one, it has way longer range than the old active, and it's a huge slow that sets up skillshots. It also provides vision that the removal of green wards made lacking. Morello also was made more expensive, and Frost Queens + Amp Tome is better than Morello alone.

DJ Di0Dec 10, 20151 votes

I just it doesn't get nerfed to the point where it affects supports to; so wouldn't be fair.

NekusenDec 10, 20151 votes

item 3092 is not OP at all you get item 3165 for the extra cooldown, AP and grievous wounds.

the real problem is item 2301 being terrible

Rock MDDec 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

is not OP at all you get for the extra cooldown, AP and grievous wounds.

And you get Frost Queen's for the absurd amounts of gold gen and the active, as well as more mana regen. Because both Morello's and Frost Queen's fill the same niche; they ain't there to be good AP items they're cheap mana regen items that allow you to build your #1 item (Rabadon's) without going OOM every 45 seconds.

But hey, if you really wanna fight me on this, it's mine, FalconPawwwwnch, and Bjerg's word vs. yours.

NekusenDec 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chairman Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Af4I95ke,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2015-12-10T23:54:18.804+0000)

And you get Frost Queen's for the absurd amounts of gold gen and the active, as well as more mana regen. Because both Morello's and Frost Queen's fill the same niche; they ain't there to be good AP items they're cheap mana regen items that allow you to build your #1 item (Rabadon's) without going OOM every 45 seconds.

But hey, if you really wanna fight me on this, it's mine, FalconPawwwwnch, and Bjerg's word vs. yours.

they dont, you get morelos when you need more CDR, and AP, it also counters regen effect with grievous wounds, i explained this above.

ignoring there are also tons of items that give you mana, mostly for mid-top-jg mages, such as item 3027 item 3003 item 3025 item 3110 , etc.

if you are buying item 3089 as your second item i think i get why you made this post.

as said item 3092 is as good as it needs to be, the problem is item 2301 being trash.

supports need the gold as they wont cs nor get kills, hence the gold items, and as sup items give cdr, item 3165 is for other mages that get more gold.

Rock MDDec 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

they dont, you get morelos when you need more CDR, and AP, it also counters regen effect with grievous wounds, i explained this above.

ignoring there are also tons of items that give you mana, mostly for mid-top-jg mages, such as , etc.

if you are buying as your second item i think i get why you made this post.

as said is as good as it needs to be, the problem is being trash

Yes. Yes they do. Mages want a cheap mana regen item that'll keep them topped off on mana so they can move on to actual big-ticket AP items. It's why people rushed Athene's, which was 2600 gold and 60 AP. BECAUSE IT MADE YOU MANALESS AND HAD MR (it used to have 40) SO EVEN IF YOU GOT ATTACKED YOU COULD SHRUG IT OFF AND CONTINUE FARMING/PUSHING SAFELY. Same thing with Morellonomicon. Mages want that cheap mana regen + CDR. CDR/lvl glyphs more than make up for the difference in CDR values.
RoA and Archangel's are niche. Hard to get early for a lot of champs who want to snowball and neither has CDR. Iceborn Gauntlet is for Blue Ezreal and tanks, and I dunno if you keep up with patches or not but Frozen Heart is kinda trash right now.
You buy Luden's, Rabadon's, or Zhonya's right after your mana regen item, depending on the matchup and where you are in the game. Luden's is better for kill pressure and upfront burst, Rabadon's is better for utility scalings and afk waveclearing. Zhonya's is for that Zed/Vi who are making you miserable with their existence.

But go ahead and try to imply I'm trash. Until you stop running TP on Orianna support I'll just stick to what Bjerg (a professional League player) says over the Kool-Aid you're trying to offer me.

AbyssphereDec 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

is not OP at all you get for the extra cooldown, AP and grievous wounds.

the real problem is being terrible

...how is Eye of the Watchers being a poor item causing mid lane mages to take FQC in almost every game?

Frost Queen's being popular on supports is perfectly fine - its popularity mid is what's ridiculous.

NekusenDec 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

...how is Eye of the Watchers being a poor item causing mid lane mages to take FQC in almost every game?

Frost Queen's being popular on supports is perfectly fine - its popularity mid is what's ridiculous.

it was taken a couple of times, like smite on tops or mid

blkKalameetDec 11, 20151 votes

Just add the minion kills disabling the pasive that the previous items in its build have. Problem solved.

MelledoneusDec 11, 20151 votes

item 3092 on Leblanc is the most broken thing ever. Immobile mages don't stand a chance.

Kitten of EvilDec 11, 20151 votes

The mana regen is incredible. I may bring it mid even for just that. Twin Shadows wasn't universally terrible before.

I will point out, people called this before they made the changes. There was a hot thread on Gameplay/Balance about how FCQ was going to be insane on mid-lane immobile mages.

Choo6Dec 11, 20151 votes

About the gold passive: it's always been the same. You can always get 400-500 gold every 10 minutes for years now.

But the spooky ghosts? Yeah that needs a bit of tuning. Not the gold passive.

ErockandrollDec 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

About the gold passive: it's always been the same. You can always get 400-500 gold every 10 minutes for years now.

But the spooky ghosts? Yeah that needs a bit of tuning. Not the gold passive.

the hell? No one picked up spooky ghosts before the they took the passive off TW and put it on FQC. So Why would it be a problem now?

ADepressedLeonaDec 11, 20151 votes

Yeah I agree that FQC is pretty stupid right now

CanidaeDec 11, 20151 votes

So like I had this game as mid when the enemy Xerath and Janna both got Frost Queen's Claim.

MUCH

SLOW.

Like, I'd be cs'ing and I'd get hit with 2 back-to-back. It didn't really win them the game (the random teamfights and invades that we were forcing with no objectives up kinda did) and in practice was pretty hilarious, but still that stuff could wreck in competent hands. (especially if there were more than 2).

Old Man TeetoDec 11, 20151 votes

Looks like for one season, it's NOT Ezreal getting another roles item nerfed.

Your Real MomDec 11, 20151 votes

I think they should bring the passive back that they had before and disable it if you kill a minion. I feel like that would make the item balanced. As someone who plays supports with AP scaling I personally enjoy the item because it has so many purposes. I used to build twin shadows for the exact reason. It's not necessarily always about inducing the slow to secure kills. Sometimes as a support your ADC doesn't abuse their farsight orb, or you're forced into situations where you know you need wards on a certain area of the map and with frost queens active you can avoid facechecking and kind of scout the area safely without having your team rage at you for getting caught out to ward. Personally I feel like as support the active should be prioritized as a way to check your surroundings, and not so much as a kill steroid. Thankfully the active itself doesn't do damage so it doesn't necessarily contribute to the burst from a mid laner, but this is exactly why I say that if they added the passive back that caused the item to disable itself upon killing a minion no one would build it mid. Supports need it because we generally aren't farming and have no need to farm because we're stronger and better off following our team and offering them further support. We leave the job of pushing lanes to our carries, as they benefit from it more.

SleepyLionCubDec 11, 20151 votes

I dont even know why they changed it. The aoe slow skillshot was super fun to aim, and added great skillful gameplay to a lot of supports. this new one is just "activate before every teamfight or when chasing happens"

AbyssphereDec 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I dont even know why they changed it. The aoe slow skillshot was super fun to aim, and added great skillful gameplay to a lot of supports. this new one is just "activate before every teamfight or when chasing happens"

This active has way more interesting uses, though. Using it to scout people out is infinitely more interesting than the old active.

KirbyCakeDec 11, 20151 votes

oh that's why bad mid laners started buying that and i got the easiest mid lanes ever

btw the only thing they changed about it was the active

Rock MDDec 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

oh that's why bad mid laners started buying that and i got the easiest mid lanes ever

btw the only thing they changed about it was the active

I thought the easiest lanes were when you played Soraka before you got screwed over by her rework. :^)