If you're a tank jungler main, PLAY RANKED RIGHT NOW.

Barkley·May 12, 2019·30 votes·12,867 views

With the recent cinderhulk buffs and the buffs to a few of the better tank junglers (sejuani, amumu, and i'm not sure but I think J4 got buffs too)

It feels SO DAMN GOOD to play a tank jungler right now. Especially since nobody's picking tanks. And then they moved the scuttle spawn to 3 minutes. Omg perfect. You mean I get to clear my whole jungle without worrying about having to stop and contend for a pesky crab? I can just go get it after I full clear? YES PLEASE.

Seriously though, go spam some tanks -- chances are the enemy team won't have one, and you'll win just off that. That alone will win you the game.

<3 Tank Meta! BRING ON THE TANKS!

73 Comments

Shinji lkariMay 12, 201934 votes

I play a tank jgler and my team doesn't do damage. gg

BarkleyMay 12, 20192 votes

Meh.... you can't have "We do no damage" and "Tank junglers do too much damage" in the same comments thread. Someone's wrong.

Personally I think its you.

SanKakUMay 12, 20197 votes

Pretty sure he means his team watches him fight by himself then go in after he leaves the fight because they are allergic to getting assists on their KDA record.

IainG10May 13, 20191 votes

Or they all fight, but none of them have damage.... Tank top, jung and supp, behind ADC and mid can make for some really anaemic damage output (which is objectively ok because tanks shouldn't have too much damage, but is not fun to play).

Soul DealerMay 12, 201915 votes

I’m glad tanks are comming back but I hope riot tones down the damage on some of them (looking at you sej) because i think a tanks job should be to soak up damage, peel, and cc the enemy for your team and not to be and unkillable monster that just deletes people.

ShmeeveMay 12, 20192 votes

cough illaoi

BarkleyMay 12, 201913 votes

Illaoi is a bruiser, not a tank, and if people knew wtf Grievous Wounds does and what her ultimate does -- she wouldn't be half as much of a problem as she is.

Take away the lack of knowledge of item effects, and the lack of knowledge to literally just step out of her ult, and she's a fairly balanced champion.

Its not riot's job to balance people's knowledge of the game. Its their job to balance the numbers on champs, and for that I'd say Illaoi is just fine.

Soul DealerMay 12, 201911 votes

{quoted}

Illaoi is a bruiser, not a tank, and if people knew wtf Grievous Wounds does and what her ultimate does -- she wouldn't be half as much of a problem as she is.

Take away the lack of knowledge of item effects, and the lack of knowledge to literally just step out of her ult, and she's a fairly balanced champion.

Its not riot's job to balance people's knowledge of the game. Its their job to balance the numbers on champs, and for that I'd say Illaoi is just fine.

The problem with illoai is twofold:

A. Her hitboxes do not match her animations and that needs to be fixed

B. Her ult removes counterplay. People say just walk out of it but what they don’t realize is that her ult will hit you once taking away 70% of your health.

BarkleyMay 12, 20192 votes

There's actually quite a bit of counterplay in it just with grievous wounds alone. There's also death's dance and sterak's gauge. There's also flash as a summoner spell. There's also armor. There's also outplaying her through the rest of the game and being so far ahead of her that her ult doesn't matter. There's also not grouping and using split pushing to your advantage so you don't have to fight her ultimate ever.

....."No counterplay" he says.

Gathering StormMay 12, 20198 votes

Half the things you mentioned don't take into account that there are also 4 other players on the enemy team.

Flash is a summoner spell with a 5 minute cooldown, that's not counterplay. Nobody mentioned her healing. Death's Dance and Sterak's Gauge; both items that most champions build 3rd or later. Armor is not counterplay. Being ahead of someone is not counterplay, that's korean advice - in fact, she is actually still quite relevant even when behind unless she's 0/15. This final point isn't even counterplay - if you split push, her team can simply force a 5v4 and push down mid lane, or she can just go stop your split push.

I love how you did not mention a single thing to do to play around her kit for counterplay. Instead you just listed general things to do against literally any AD bruiser.

Voluug13May 13, 20193 votes

To be fair the last point has some validity as Illaoi is awful at forcing fights.

Sightless66May 14, 20191 votes

n fact, she is actually still quite relevant even when behind unless she's 0/15

No, she's really not. She's one of the worst champions in the game when behind. She contributes nothing but damage and tankiness (only 1 slow in her kit for utility, no pickoff but the delayed slow on her E, no engage). If she doesn't stat up, she's contributing less than almost anyone else.

Flash is a summoner spell with a 5 minute cooldown, that's not counterplay.

It's funny you mention flash, given that she's dependent on it for a good ult. Most of the time, she's reliant on walking in towards you slowly to ult. The counterplay to that is obvious: walk backwards while hitting her, or have one person stun, root, or even slow her to completely fuck her ability to get into range to do anything. It's that simple.

Also, flash is counterplay, by definition, since it's something active you're doing to respond to an enemy. It's also effective counterplay versus Illaoi, given that she has no way to follow-up if you flash when compared to other champions. If you flash away from a Riven, she can dash and follow you. If Renekton dives at you and you flash, he can have a second dash to follow. If you flash from Illaoi, she's not getting onto you without a flash of her own. She just doesn't have the tools.

Instead you just listed general things to do against literally any AD bruiser.

There is a strong point to be made that the general things to do against AD bruisers are way, way more effective against Illaoi than they are against most AD bruisers. Most of them have some response to general counterplay; Illaoi doesn't. Illaoi gets counterplayed; she doesn't counterplay anyone else.

NumberOneBallerMay 12, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AbuYJIiJ,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-12T06:29:08.187+0000)

The problem with illoai is twofold:

A. Her hitboxes do not match her animations and that needs to be fixed

B. Her ult removes counterplay. People say just walk out of it but what they don’t realize is that her ult will hit you once taking away 70% of your health.

Lmao. Illaoi hasn't been good for years.

PredatoratorMay 12, 20197 votes

good luck tanking for your 0/7 and 0/11 carries

HammermancerMay 12, 20194 votes

{quoted}

good luck tanking for your 0/7 and 0/11 carries

tanks have damage right now so you're also a carry

I'm curious if tryn gonna come back now

AJStarhikerMay 12, 20195 votes

Rammus OK!

Seriously, I'm not a jungler, but I love playing the armordillo when I get autofilled.

AR URFMay 12, 20194 votes

Makes playing tank Nunu super effective.

ÈvilMortyMay 12, 20193 votes

Cinderhulk needs more hp early since tank junglers still get blown the fuck up by everyone else while not being able to retaliate. If not hp then at likw 20 armor and mr

LTK KoRoMay 12, 20192 votes

well as far as i know tanks shouldn't be unkillable with one cheap tank item

Daddy AntsMay 12, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AbuYJIiJ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-12T08:48:18.376+0000)

well as far as i know tanks shouldn't be unkillable with one cheap tank item

Warrior shouldn't turn it's users into Assassin's but it does.

Z3SleeperMay 12, 20192 votes

i think it's just grossly cost efficient

IllabetheMay 12, 20191 votes

It's more the fact that champs like Xin who used to be skirmishers (implying a lot of auto attacks) were reworked and given extremely strong directional skills, so the players moved away from attack speed builds to full stat builds.

Seriously. Xin Can 100-10% someone with a skill now. He didn't used to be able to do that.

Lee Sin's Q was also MASSIVELY buffed. So, instead of having to auto attack a few times, his Q now does missing HP damage, following a HUGE AD scaling on his first hit of his Q, so it basically has no counterplay when pumped as AD.

Z3SleeperMay 12, 20191 votes

But you know what champs with strong AD scalings like the most?

2100g worth of AD on a 1525g upgrade with a sprinkle of 266.67g worth of CDR.

Daddy AntsMay 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

But you know what champs with strong AD scalings like the most?

2100g worth of AD on a 1525g upgrade with a sprinkle of 266.67g worth of CDR.

item 1400 ?

Build path for item 1400 is item 3706 + item 3133 + 525 gold.

As junglers start the game with at least 1 of the components for the skirmishers/stalkers blade it technically costs them 650 gold.

item 3706 + item 3133 is 1750 gold in total and gives you 25 AD and 10% CDR.

Upgrading to Warrior gives you an additional 35 AD.

35 AD is valued at 1,225 gold according to LolWiki.

2625 - 1750 = 875.

** If my math is correct, AD Junglers get 1,225 gold of stats for 875 gold **

Z3SleeperMay 13, 20191 votes

My math isn't wrong either. I simply kept the sabre/stalker line separate from the rest.

I did Caulfield's + combine cost.

Hemulen MagiMay 12, 20192 votes

I think Cinderhulk is more than fine right now.

I think specific niche counter-build resist items like Randuins and Frozen Heart should be made stronger counters in their specific niche but generalist tank items do not need buffs. I also wouldn't mind some rare niche tank items like Ohmwrecker and Zz'rot being buffed so they don't totally fall off the radar. I'd be sad if Zz'rot were deleted in the future just because no one builds it because it is undertuned...

Voluug13May 13, 20191 votes

Zz'rot's active (and probably ther passive too) is too strong for the item to have actual tank stats, sadly. Its more of a support item right now. It was nerfed specifically for that, because it felt very mandatory.

Hemulen MagiMay 13, 20191 votes

It's not the absolute worst item, but it could probably afford a small buff. When I look on League statistics sites, I see a couple champions Shen Yorick building it between 1-3% of the time and then one champion Singed building it around 10% of the time. That isn't much representation in the game. If it was buffed just a little bit so that it were built even twice as often, that would still leave it as one of the rarest items in the game.

DeathBurstMay 13, 20191 votes

The item was nerfed 3 times in a row and is more situational now, but I'm still building it 1 every 4 or 5 games on Garen. Before all the nerfs, it was almost every games.

IainG10May 13, 20191 votes

I just don't finish it first; the best bit about it is the boost it gives all other HP items, so it makes sense to get another item or two before finishing it up

Malix FarwinMay 12, 20193 votes

I can say right now Mid lane and Top lane feel 10x better to play now that they moved scuttle timer, best change they've done all season.

IllabetheMay 12, 20191 votes

Honestly? I wouldn't know because when I jungle, my bot lane almost ALWAYS full pushes lanes. I have to actually give up farm to shadow bot in case they get ganked. Every. Single. Game.

Really dumb to full push when your jungler is Evelynn Morgana Zyra .....

You'll see a 22/3 Eve game on my record recently. Game lasted friggin 46 minutes or so, simply because my team was full push incompetent.

Only won after I 1v3'd other team trying to take Elder..... Flash > E'd Brand one shot, then had to play angles to kill the other two. (22/3 still only got me S-..... even with like 223 CS)

Daddy AntsMay 13, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AbuYJIiJ,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-05-12T10:55:58.073+0000)

I can say right now Mid lane and Top lane feel 10x better to play now that they moved scuttle timer, best change they've done all season.

I 100% agree.

It even feels good for bot lane too.

I play ADC's like Vayne and top laners like Kayle ... champion's who can't really get lane priority early.

No longer will I get to lane, farm 1 wave and then it's

"x is asking for assistance." "x is asking for assistance." "x is asking for assistance." "x is asking for assistance." "x is asking for assistance."

AndrewiusMay 12, 20193 votes

Played rammus. Built full tank items. I killed enemy adc in 2,34secs at lvl 14. Tanks are really OP during mid game.

Daddy AntsMay 12, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Played rammus. Built full tank items. I killed enemy adc in 2,34secs at lvl 14. Tanks are really OP during mid game.

I watched a 3 item sejuani more a less insta delete a 3.5 item Jinx.

Hemulen MagiMay 12, 20192 votes

That is one thing I am not loving right now. I am glad tanks are coming back, but I wish tanks had more durability and less damage. I think it is fine for a tank to outduel a marksman if they catch them extremely out of position, but it should take like 6 seconds to allow a fair chance to kite under a turret or a nearby ally to come to the rescue if they are paying attention.

But, if it would take a tank 6 seconds to duel a marksman, it would actually be impossible for them to kill any marksman with lifesteal even if they outmaneuvered them and should punish their positioning. So the current state of the game, mostly lifesteal, throws a wrench in that plan.

I think ideal outcomes between tanks 1vs1 dueling other classes should be:

Tank vs backline carry (Marksman/Mage) - Nearly an even matchup. Favors the tank if they manage to flank behind and cut the opponent off from retreat or re-establishing a range advantage. Favors the backline carry if they have a free path of retreat to kite along. Should be so closely matched that item builds should also be a big factor, like an armor stacking tank with lower magic resistance should have much worse odds versus a mage than an AD marksman.

Tank vs Assassin - The tank can technically outduel the assassin, but the tank deals too little damage to kill the assassin before the assassin can easily escape with their mobility, so no decisive outcome unless the assassin is suicidal. Assassins should be nearly impossible for any other class to outmaneuver them around the map, but they should be weak duelists, only outdueling squishy backliners in a fair fight (so they obviously should avoid fighting fairly).

Tank vs Fighter - The fighter should have a massive advantage as the strongest duelist class in the game. In a straight 1vs1, the tank's best chance of survival should be trying to peel the fighter off and run. In a tank vs fighter lane, there should be room for 1vs1 outplay by playing around minion waves and turrets though.

Deadly FondueMay 13, 20191 votes

Sorry but I don't agree with this.

The adc is the who is meant to kill a tank with high sustained damage. (and seeing as nearly every champ can solo an adc, over a prolonged fight like your saying the ad should always come out on top if the tank does not kill them in 6 seconds)

The tank should win vs a fighter/assassin/mage as they tend to have more burst that is unable to 100 - 0 a true tank in 2/3 rotations (15-20 seconds) . And as most tanks teand to have half decent sustained damage and health % based damage over time as well as cc and high base numbers - they should come out on top. (if not cc'd and kited/out played)

Over all for tanks to be the best they can be I think they need:-

Lower base ad stats Lower ap/ad scaling Better cooldows on non hard cc abilitys Better health and resistances (or better armour/ Mr scaling from items - maybe an item that gave a ‰ increase like death cap does for ap) Higher based damage on ‰ based abilitys

And to counter this a ranged only item that gives crit/attack speed and % armour pen

Let's be honest though. A tanks job is not to kill at all, their job is to place a shed ton on cc down and allow their teams carries to pick up kills as well as keeling them safe. Your there to be a nuesense and to support your team with hard cc, while having the ability to stick around in fights while soaking up damage that should realistically be heading at your carries.

EphixusMay 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Played rammus. Built full tank items. I killed enemy adc in 2,34secs at lvl 14. Tanks are really OP during mid game.

Or that Ashe is was dumb and got cought off guard, because support would peel against a Rammus.

ShmeeveMay 12, 20192 votes

AMUMU FOR LIFE

ThedumidiotMay 12, 20192 votes

Say no more. I've been doing it. I have to say. Nunu, Sejuani, and Skarner feel the best to play.

Hemulen MagiMay 12, 20191 votes

I am enjoying Shen jungle and Trundle as a counter-tank. I like Nunu, Sejuani, Zac, and Maokai and have been eager to play them more in the jungle too.

My support tanks, specifically mostly Alistar, are still feeling weak but I will gladly accept the current positive compromise of this meta shift.

IainG10May 13, 20191 votes

But...but...mah 10k HP Cho... Takes a long game, but it's doable. Also CinderHeca with Conqueror is my current go to jungler

3ternalkarmaMay 12, 20191 votes

{quoted}

With the recent cinderhulk buffs and the buffs to a few of the better tank junglers (sejuani, amumu, and i'm not sure but I think J4 got buffs too)

It feels SO DAMN GOOD to play a tank jungler right now. Especially since nobody's picking tanks. And then they moved the scuttle spawn to 3 minutes. Omg perfect. You mean I get to clear my whole jungle without worrying about having to stop and contend for a pesky crab? I can just go get it after I full clear? YES PLEASE.

Seriously though, go spam some tanks -- chances are the enemy team won't have one, and you'll win just off that. That alone will win you the game.

<3 Tank Meta! BRING ON THE TANKS!

wha? when did they buff cinderhulk i dont see it on patch notes

IllabetheMay 13, 20191 votes

About 2 patches ago they reverted it to 300% damage to monsters from 200%.

IllabetheMay 13, 20191 votes

For what it's worth: I'll just Evelynn vs all you tanks :)

Meteora707May 13, 20191 votes

volibear actually feels pretty good for the first time in ... years

CevradMay 13, 20191 votes

And this is coming from your classic gold league player who doesn't understand that tanks can't beat things like Rek'sai and Hecarim. Good luck, anything works in gold, doesn't mean it works in higher elos.

WAZZZUP500May 13, 20191 votes

I get to play naut jg again?

Code DogeMay 13, 20191 votes

If you end up picking amumu don't go tank after cinder hulk build up bruiser (any ap item with defence states) it is damn r%%%%%ed, after shock gives you all the armor and mr you could need with cinder's passive providing hp and the ap gives your enough dmg to one shot anyone without mr or hp items