Hi, We are Riot games, and aoe capable junglers are dominating the meta

Kr1sys·Jan 4, 2017·27 votes·1,586 views

So we're going to nerf the xp in the solo camps and buff the xp in the one camp that melts everyone but aoe capable junglers.

21 Comments

LankPantsJan 4, 20176 votes

I wouldn't consider Shaco or Lee Sin to be AoE heavy junglers. Lee has one AoE spell that doesn't do that much damage and which he doesn't rank and Shaco literally has no AoE to clear with unless you feel like blowing his ult and letting chickens AA it to death.

Plenty of AoE junglers are really struggling right now. Sejuani and Amumu are both utter garbage right now. There's not really a correlation between being an AoE jungler and being strong right now, there's a correlation between strong early games and being strong regardless of AoE.

Kr1sysJan 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't consider Shaco or Lee Sin to be AoE heavy junglers. Lee has one AoE spell that doesn't do that much damage and which he doesn't rank and Shaco literally has no AoE to clear with unless you feel like blowing his ult and letting chickens AA it to death.

Plenty of AoE junglers are really struggling right now. Sejuani and Amumu are both utter garbage right now. There's not really a correlation between being an AoE jungler and being strong right now, there's a correlation between strong early games and being strong regardless of AoE.

Most junglers with a +50% winrate are aoe junglers. Also, Amumu is ranked 7th in win rate among junglers on Champion.gg, Sejuani is 14th, I would hardly call that garbage, and I would probably not pick two tanky aoe champions out of all the aoe capable junglers in the game as a counterpoint. That's more indicative that they need tuned or the meta needs to shift to support, which this doesn't do.

LankPantsJan 4, 20177 votes

Most junglers with a +50% winrate are aoe junglers. Also, Amumu is ranked 7th in win rate among junglers on Champion.gg, Sejuani is 14th, I would hardly call that garbage

Champ.gg is massively inaccurate right now.

How are these champs actually doing right now?

Amumu is at a 46.66% winrate down from about 53% before the jungle changes. Sejuani is at 48%, down from about the same original win rate. There are some AoE junglers who are very heavily hurt by the new jungle.

Meanwhile Lee Sin is sitting at 50.32%, up around 4% from before the jungle changes, clearly he is the god of AoE. Shaco and Rengar are both also fairly heavily up. You can't attribute this to the new jungle entirely since they did get reworks, but their majority single target nature doesn't seem to be hindering them. Kha'zix is also benifiting quite a lot from the current jungle and he's majority single target.

You can argue this till the cows come home. There really isn't a strong correlation either way. There's several single target junglers who had a massive rise in winrate and several who had a steep drop. Most AoE junglers saw a dropoff, there are a few who saw rises.

and I would probably not pick two tanky aoe champions out of all the aoe capable junglers in the game as a counterpoint.

OK then. Let's look at the 4 non-tank AoE junglers in the game as opposed to the 7 or 8 tank junglers. Hecarim saw a small drop off in winrate, he was 52% before the new jungle and is 51% now. Diana saw the single biggest fall in winrate of any jungler in the game. She fell all the way from 52% to 43.9%, an 8% drop. Shyvana saw an initial drop in winrate before her rework, her winrate is now back bellow what it was. Evelynn's winrate saw an initial increase before a sharp dropoff.

Do you want to tell me more about how well AoE junglers are doing right now?

The Yetii RiderJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Champ.gg is massively inaccurate right now.

How are these champs actually doing right now?

Amumu is at a 46.66% winrate down from about 53% before the jungle changes. Sejuani is at 48%, down from about the same original win rate. There are some AoE junglers who are very heavily hurt by the new jungle.

Meanwhile Lee Sin is sitting at 50.32%, up around 4% from before the jungle changes, clearly he is the god of AoE. Shaco and Rengar are both also fairly heavily up. You can't attribute this to the new jungle entirely since they did get reworks, but their majority single target nature doesn't seem to be hindering them. Kha'zix is also benifiting quite a lot from the current jungle and he's majority single target.

You can argue this till the cows come home. There really isn't a strong correlation either way. There's several single target junglers who had a massive rise in winrate and several who had a steep drop. Most AoE junglers saw a dropoff, there are a few who saw rises.

OK then. Let's look at the 4 non-tank AoE junglers in the game as opposed to the 7 or 8 tank junglers. Hecarim saw a small drop off in winrate, he was 52% before the new jungle and is 51% now. Diana saw the single biggest fall in winrate of any jungler in the game. She fell all the way from 52% to 43.9%, an 8% drop. Shyvana saw an initial drop in winrate before her rework, her winrate is now back bellow what it was. Evelynn's winrate saw an initial increase before a sharp dropoff.

Do you want to tell me more about how well AoE junglers are doing right now?

It's possible that all these changes in win rate have less to do with the new jungle than they do with Lee Sin's rising pick rate. Eve in particular is pretty terrible against Lee Sin.

LankPantsJan 5, 20171 votes

Lee Sin's rising pick rate.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/leesin

What rise? He's always been insanely popular.

Lee's pickrate going up 10% does not case Amumu's winrate, which has to this point almost always been above 50% regardless of Lee Sin's pick rate drop off to 47%.

The Yetii RiderJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/leesin

What rise? He's always been insanely popular.

Lee's pickrate going up 10% does not case Amumu's winrate, which has to this point almost always been above 50% regardless of Lee Sin's pick rate drop off to 47%.

"What rise?" "Pick rate going up 10%".

That rise. 10% is a huge increase. Half the freaking roster has less than 10% pick rate.

LankPantsJan 5, 20171 votes

Look at it by position, he went from being no. 1 to being no. 1. At no point has he not been no. 1. Amumu/Sej/who the fuck you want have never not had to deal with Lee Sin.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 4, 20173 votes

Patch 7.2 "We're Nerfing the AOE of junglers by 5 ad this way their AOE will do a lot less AOEing"

CerealBoxOfDoomJan 4, 20172 votes

Problem?

Troll for TrumpJan 4, 20172 votes

Remember all those buff raptor XP threads?

I member

XonraJan 4, 20171 votes

Yes but when you buff them by taking away from the other camps, that defeats the purpose of what was being called for at that time.

Glory ln DeathJan 5, 20171 votes

If Riot added XP to the raptors without removing it from somewhere else in the jungle, it would be the Red ->Krugs ->lvl 3 gank problem all over again.

Well, they probably wouldn't make that mistake again, but people are already complaining about quick-clearing junglers actually having a level advantage when they gank early game.

The jungle doesn't need more experience in it, it just needs it to be redistributed so different types of junglers can keep up and be competitive.

WeatheredJan 4, 20171 votes

RIP Elise Nidalee rn

xeviJan 4, 20171 votes

my friend actually got executed by the raptors after first-timing elise in norms

ForFoxSakesJan 4, 20173 votes

So your friend sucks with Elise. How is that the game's problem

MordepoolJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

my friend actually got executed by the raptors after first-timing elise in norms

Sounds like a learning curve

the Anarchit3chtJan 4, 20171 votes

I think its a bit dumb, honestly. They basically just added a bunch more monsters to every camp which essentially pushes you into aoe junglers so that you don't get shredded killing them one by one.