With that thought... Has anyone ever played Lux/Veigar/Ziggs/TF/Ori into Yasuo? Because the only hope you have to ever do anything in these matchups is hope the Yasuo is hilariously bad
Hoping your enemy laner is trash should not be the only strategy and hope you have at beating them
Hayaishi214 votesA Riot hates Sona and a Yasuo is broken easy mode OP in a single thread!
RedCyclone40 votesThis thread has very little to do with Sona, it's the quote of that champions should not be a binary instant win in certain matchups Yasuo gets away with this
I could not care less that Sona was nerfed then, she is good now
I Miss Cannon9 votesIf you quote something give a fucking source or you're making yourself look stupid.
RedCyclone30 votesIt was far back, I'll try find it though but finding archived things on boards is a massive pain in the ass http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/3NL0vjdZ-the-pbe-has-been-down-for-2-and-a-half-weeks-first-update-is-a-nerf-to-sona
First riot comment mentions they wanted to broaden her counterplay as she was deemed too strong against champions she was strong against (no sustain squishies like Lulu) I don't see why you are riled up about this, the thread isn't about Sona
Ariel the Cruel3 votesShould probably put that reference in the opener, now that you've found it. Adds credence to your topic.
Marthian4 votesRiot hates Sona
This is such a load for various reasons. One of the biggest being Ultimate Skin.
Battlecast Sona4 votesit's actually not
Morello has stated multiple times that if they were to make Sona again she wouldn't have the ultimate she has right now as it hogs a huge portion of her power budget and doesn't fit on an aura/sustain support, but they don't want to change it due to community backlash so they just keep nerfing her instead. I mean, having an Ultimate Skin doesn't mean Riot thinks that character is in a good spot balance wise.
maikokk1 votesso, morello stated the obvious and that means riot hates sona? an AOE stun that does damage is a huge drain on a power budget in lol. it not like dota where every champ has game changing abilities
Battlecast Sona1 votesI never said Riot "hates" Sona, but they definitely don't like the way her design turned out, since she's supposed to be a sustain/aura support but she has a wombo/teamfighting ultimate.
only zhule5 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-26T23:17:55.680+0000)
I never said Riot "hates" Sona, but they definitely don't like the way her design turned out, since she's supposed to be a sustain/aura support but she has a wombo/teamfighting ultimate.
Because other support champions totally lack a big wombo team fight ultimate. I mean it's not like 
,
, 
exist.
Sona's damage really isn't all that impressive. People wouldn't complain if they kept getting chunked down because they let an ADC keep unloading auto attacks and damage abilities on them, so why is it all of a sudden an issue when the support can output some good damage with an auto attack?
Battlecast Sona2 votesOkay, let's look at this setup though. Nami's teamfight ultimate is much harder to use in a lot of scenarios then Sona's (since it moves much slower but has longer range this is mostly arguable, but I feel like there's a lot more counterplay to dodging it). Nami's kit is also not that of an aura/sustain support as much as it is a skirmishing support - she DOES have a heal but healing is definitely not the brunt of her kit. She's intended to fight the enemy laner, using the heal as a health swing during a skirmish (since it bounces around dealing damage and heals). These things work together.
Braum and Leona we won't even talk about (I NEVER SAID SUPPORTS CAN'T HAVE WOMBO/TEAMFIGHT ULTIMATES, but that it doesn't fit on an AURA/SUSTAIN support like Sona, which none of the champs you listed are).
Currently Sona has a kit that favors short trades with breaks in between to heal back up, looking for good opportunities to counter an opponent moving out of position. She does well in teamfights (even with just QWE) by giving her auras to her team and providing shields, healing, and some damage amp in the form of Q procs for her team. And then she has a random AoE 1.5 second stun. Her kit (which is great for sieging minus the ultimate) has a random huge teamfight CD attached to it. On someone like Nami it makes more sense - she has her Q, it combos together into her R, but her healing is much weaker than Sona's and she doesn't offer quite the same amount of teamwide utility (yeah she gives movespeed, but Sona does too and hers is easier to utilize on a wider range of people, barring Nami's ultimate). I really, really wish that Sona had a permutation of a Karma ultimate, either where you entered a state where your auras were empowered and your spells worked differently for -x- amount of seconds, preserving her aura/sustain feel while giving her a clear increase in power for those clutch teamfight plays - or they gave her an evolving ability mechanic with her ult instead of the current flat buff to everything for each rank in ult. Allow Sona some decision making while removing some of the hidden power from her kit, and she suddenly becomes much less oppressive to play against. People complain a lot about Sona but I feel like she's way less annoying to lane against than Soraka with the caveat that Soraka doesn't have a big AoE stun as her ult.
only zhule2 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=0000000100010000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-27T07:14:08.468+0000)
Okay, let's look at this setup though. Nami's teamfight ultimate is much harder to use in a lot of scenarios then Sona's (since it moves much slower but has longer range this is mostly arguable, but I feel like there's a lot more counterplay to dodging it). Nami's kit is also not that of an aura/sustain support as much as it is a skirmishing support - she DOES have a heal but healing is definitely not the brunt of her kit. She's intended to fight the enemy laner, using the heal as a health swing during a skirmish (since it bounces around dealing damage and heals). These things work together.
Braum and Leona we won't even talk about (I NEVER SAID SUPPORTS CAN'T HAVE WOMBO/TEAMFIGHT ULTIMATES, but that it doesn't fit on an AURA/SUSTAIN support like Sona, which none of the champs you listed are).
Currently Sona has a kit that favors short trades with breaks in between to heal back up, looking for good opportunities to counter an opponent moving out of position. She does well in teamfights (even with just QWE) by giving her auras to her team and providing shields, healing, and some damage amp in the form of Q procs for her team. And then she has a random AoE 1.5 second stun. Her kit (which is great for sieging minus the ultimate) has a random huge teamfight CD attached to it. On someone like Nami it makes more sense - she has her Q, it combos together into her R, but her healing is much weaker than Sona's and she doesn't offer quite the same amount of teamwide utility (yeah she gives movespeed, but Sona does too and hers is easier to utilize on a wider range of people, barring Nami's ultimate). I really, really wish that Sona had a permutation of a Karma ultimate, either where you entered a state where your auras were empowered and your spells worked differently for -x- amount of seconds, preserving her aura/sustain feel while giving her a clear increase in power for those clutch teamfight plays - or they gave her an evolving ability mechanic with her ult instead of the current flat buff to everything for each rank in ult. Allow Sona some decision making while removing some of the hidden power from her kit, and she suddenly becomes much less oppressive to play against. People complain a lot about Sona but I feel like she's way less annoying to lane against than Soraka with the caveat that Soraka doesn't have a big AoE stun as her ult.
There are so many points of this that i either just disagree or would claim you are just wrong about. She is not a good siege champion, her abilities other then her passive have no effect buildings. Her heal is really lack luster, lacking the base numbers to really do much of anything to help your team mate until you are rolling in the late game with 200-400 AP.
Also Sona has moved so far away from the old aura sustain build that it's more or less pointless to even mention it now. Her current kit is not aura's it's a thrown together chimera of one time bonuses, many of which don't last long enough to see full effect.
It always amuses me that people complain about Sona, she is actually super easy to play against if you can even remotely pick up your opponents pattern. So much of Sona's damage is based off your opponents letting you get in free hits. It is very rare that the creep wave is going to be in a place where Sona can land her Q into AA without being open to counter poke or getting caught by an ability. Late game a ton of her power simply comes from building a ton of inflated damage. One doesn't complain when the Ziggs with 
and 300-600 AP is auto attacking for metric tons of damage, so why is it an issue when Sona does it?
While we are talking about her ultimate though, what do you think would be a good replacement? Because as Sona stands it's basically 40-70% of her reason for existing in the late game. Remember that without a damage ability for an ultimate she has 1 offensive based skill, while still being one of the most fragile champions in the game. Also remember that without the stun part of her ultimate, she is the only support without a built in form of CC. Hell even Soraka has a built in root AND slow in her basic kit. Sona has to use her passive to even get a slow.
Battlecast Sona2 votesSona is good for sieging because she has a short CD ability that gives everyone on her team a shield and heals herself and a target. If you can't understand why that's useful when you're trying to take a tower then I can't help you. And I'm not complaining about Sona - I'm a Sona main that's sad that she's so incredibly binary when her kit could be much more interesting than it is, so I think you're coming at me from the wrong angle here. I also don't feel like you read my post as I gave two examples of abilities to replace her ultimate with. Sona also has a slow, basically a mini-exhaust (Diminuendo is SUPER good) and additional utility with her E and W. If you don't consider her passive "built in" CC I, again, don't know how to help you. I think you're looking at Sona from a very binary perspective (only useful combo is Q->powerchord empowered AA, etc) and these are just incorrect. Superior poke combo in basically all situations is E powerchord Q AA as you retain the MS buff for long enough to easily weave back out.
only zhule3 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=000000010001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T09:05:40.665+0000)
Sona is good for sieging because she has a short CD ability that gives everyone on her team a shield and heals herself and a target. If you can't understand why that's useful when you're trying to take a tower then I can't help you. And I'm not complaining about Sona - I'm a Sona main that's sad that she's so incredibly binary when her kit could be much more interesting than it is, so I think you're coming at me from the wrong angle here. I also don't feel like you read my post as I gave two examples of abilities to replace her ultimate with. Sona also has a slow, basically a mini-exhaust (Diminuendo is SUPER good) and additional utility with her E and W. If you don't consider her passive "built in" CC I, again, don't know how to help you. I think you're looking at Sona from a very binary perspective (only useful combo is Q->powerchord empowered AA, etc) and these are just incorrect. Superior poke combo in basically all situations is E powerchord Q AA as you retain the MS buff for long enough to easily weave back out.
a 40% movement reduction for 2 second, based on having cast at least 3 abilities and the last abliity cast was your E, with a 12 second base cooldown on the ability. All that while also being within auto attack range, no i would not call that a good built in form of Crowd Control.
As for the damage reduction modifier, it's ok but it's hardly an exhaust. You can't surprise opponents with it most times and the auto attack range on it makes it hard to use while running away from a target. Add that the effect is not super visual and often it's not clear if/why a character is doing less damage.
As for your poke concept that implies a minimum level of 2 to have both the movement speed and damage abilities, or likely level 4 since basically no on goes damage into movement speed. It also is a huge mana sink, costing about 100-125 per poke, requires you to wait between each poke till your movement speed buff is active again (12 second base cooldown), and still usually requires your opponents to not learn your attack pattern and/or catch you out of position when you go in to poke.
Battlecast Sona1 votes40% movement reduction is stronger than Rylai's, and the base CD may be high but you can easily (and efficiently) hit max CDR. W is literally an exhaust - with about 300 AP it's 30% damage reduction, while exh is 40% on a summoner spell.
You are overlooking and minimizing a TON of the utility that Sona's kit brings.
only zhule2 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=00000001000100000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T23:05:24.869+0000)
40% movement reduction is stronger than Rylai's, and the base CD may be high but you can easily (and efficiently) hit max CDR. W is literally an exhaust - with about 300 AP it's 30% damage reduction, while exh is 40% on a summoner spell.
You are overlooking and minimizing a TON of the utility that Sona's kit brings.
i'm minimizing the concept of how strong Sona is when you are rocking a AP carry level of ability power. She still functions very badly as a typical utility support. Her base numbers are horrible if you take a typical team buff item patch with minimal AP, even at max CDR you aren't going to be doing next to anything if you have under 200 AP, unless you count your ultimate.
On the flip side she is a joke of a mage character. 1 offensive ability that is heavily front loaded with needing to be in auto attack range to function, a very small heal / shield, and a short term movement speed buff to try and compansate for her horrible base movement speed. No hard or lasting CC to make trades. And most fun a horrible ability to clear waves.
You comment about how strong her W power cord is at about 300 AP, but at that same level of AP aren't most mage supports also doing very powerful things and/or massive damage when they hit with any ability.
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=000000010001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T09:05:40.665+0000)
Sona is good for sieging because she has a short CD ability that gives everyone on her team a shield and heals herself and a target. If you can't understand why that's useful when you're trying to take a tower then I can't help you. And I'm not complaining about Sona - I'm a Sona main that's sad that she's so incredibly binary when her kit could be much more interesting than it is, so I think you're coming at me from the wrong angle here. I also don't feel like you read my post as I gave two examples of abilities to replace her ultimate with. Sona also has a slow, basically a mini-exhaust (Diminuendo is SUPER good) and additional utility with her E and W. If you don't consider her passive "built in" CC I, again, don't know how to help you. I think you're looking at Sona from a very binary perspective (only useful combo is Q->powerchord empowered AA, etc) and these are just incorrect. Superior poke combo in basically all situations is E powerchord Q AA as you retain the MS buff for long enough to easily weave back out.
Your suggestion on how to replace Sona's ult would put her in the same spot as either Karma or Kayle: Either no hard cc at all, or not enough hard cc fast enough to stand as a good support. EVERY good support has aoe cc in some fashion that's quick to use to make plays with, save Soraka who only spams W and wins since win starts with W.
One really can't change Sona's R without uprooting the whole kit, especially if changing R meant not having an aoe stun. It's literally that important to Sona's overall kit.
Also, if anything, Sona's good for sieging when she combines Lich with her passive. THAT'S why she helps sieging more than other supports (combined with the shield, anyway). Nothing's more helpful when taking down a turret in the mid/late game than a free 400-500 damage shot out of nowhere. You're not wrong, but her synergy with Lich is a better point to make.
Battlecast Sona1 votesYou're imaging the change in a vacuum. Who's to say that the upgraded power chords for her ultimate couldn't be hard CC? With more power funneled into the rest of her kit as the hulking power budget monstrosity that is her ultimate is removed, will she even need hard CC to be an effective support? Changes don't happen in a vacuum.
also, Karma is really strong right now. So... Your argument is kinda strange. There are plenty of viable supports that don't bring huge AoE hard CC (Nautilus could be argued to really only have single target CC and he was spammed quite a bit in worlds), and there are definitely supports whose power doesn't rely on their hard CC but on other parts of their kit (Soraka being a prime example, but I think supports like Lulu deserve a mention as well - while her ultimate DOES have a knockup, that's not really the primary strength of the ability.)
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=00000001000100000000000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-27T23:03:30.023+0000)
You're imaging the change in a vacuum. Who's to say that the upgraded power chords for her ultimate couldn't be hard CC? With more power funneled into the rest of her kit as the hulking power budget monstrosity that is her ultimate is removed, will she even need hard CC to be an effective support? Changes don't happen in a vacuum.
also, Karma is really strong right now. So... Your argument is kinda strange. There are plenty of viable supports that don't bring huge AoE hard CC (Nautilus could be argued to really only have single target CC and he was spammed quite a bit in worlds), and there are definitely supports whose power doesn't rely on their hard CC but on other parts of their kit (Soraka being a prime example, but I think supports like Lulu deserve a mention as well - while her ultimate DOES have a knockup, that's not really the primary strength of the ability.)
I DID think of possibly having her upgraded E be hard cc, but basically:
If it only hits one person, Sona's value plummits. She's too squishy to only be able to cc one person.
If it's an aoe cc, why bother changing it to begin with?
Also, yes, she would need hard cc to be an effective support. Look at all effective supports right now. ALL of them have hard CC. Where's Kayle support, even though she's secondarily designed as a support? No hard cc, no go. How about Nunu? Same problem.
Also, Karma isn't strong right now, nor was she ever. She always has negative win rates coupled with low play rates as far as champion.gg goes, and out of HUNDREDS of games that I've played, I can safely say Karma's a champion I almost NEVER see. Karma's only hard cc is a delayed root. That alone makes her so much less worth the pick than so many other supports.
Aeolian Melodies1 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-26T19:26:56.838+0000)
it's actually not
Morello has stated multiple times that if they were to make Sona again she wouldn't have the ultimate she has right now as it hogs a huge portion of her power budget and doesn't fit on an aura/sustain support, but they don't want to change it due to community backlash so they just keep nerfing her instead. I mean, having an Ultimate Skin doesn't mean Riot thinks that character is in a good spot balance wise.
I remember way back when they said that a support shouldn't have lock down.
rofl
Battlecast Sona2 votesit's not about supports not having lockdown (hello, Janna?), it's about a SUSTAIN/AURA support not having an instant cast AoE stun. It doesn't fit her kit thematically in any way, but there would be community outrage if it were removed without a suitably awesome skill to replace it.
Aeolian Melodies4 votes[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=00000001000100010000,timestamp=2015-11-26T23:17:52.196+0000)
it's not about supports not having lockdown (hello, Janna?), it's about a SUSTAIN/AURA support not having an instant cast AoE stun. It doesn't fit her kit thematically in any way, but there would be community outrage if it were removed without a suitably awesome skill to replace it.
Red Ryu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=000000010001000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T02:53:52.966+0000)
- It's not instant
- I remember very clearly that what he said was a SUPPORT should not have a lock down ability, period (yet nowadays Crescendo hardly feels like it ''locks down'' compared to pretty much everyone's CC bot lane)
It's pretty much instant, if not insanely close to it.
AWildAPKalista1 votesIt has both a channel time AND a travel time. Any half-decent player can walk out of range as it's being cast or at worst-case scenario Flash away, short of herself surprise Flash-ulting(which Aphromoo has stated is out-classed by Annie's Flash-ult).
Worse yet, it's a projectile. Any Yasuo with even moderate experience playing him will Windwall it every single time, since Windwall in fact DOES have an instant cast-time.
Red Ryu2 votesIt has both a channel time AND a travel time. Any half-decent player can walk out of range as it's being cast or at worst-case scenario Flash away, short of herself surprise Flash-ulting(which Aphromoo has stated is out-classed by Annie's Flash-ult).
Worse yet, it's a projectile. Any Yasuo with even moderate experience playing him will Windwall it every single time, since Windwall in fact DOES have an instant cast-time.
uhh, no they can't.
Unless they flash or use a mobility spell they won't be able to walk out of it on reaction.
Annie Flash Ult is better, and doesn't get blocked by windwall, she is about being a kill lane not about having the utility Sona has.
BroLane3 votesA Riot hates Sona and a Yasuo is broken easy mode OP in a single thread!
Now all we need is a "UNIT COLLISION BS" post and "nerf lee sin"
maikokk4 voteswell... to be fair. unit collision is BS (paired with lol's bad pathing)
Taarki4 votesAnd Lee Sin still needs a big nerf...
Ariel the Cruel5 votesRIOT: Ok. Ok. We here you. We just finished talking to Lee Sin's fanbase, and they convinced us he was struggling a bit. So........ Next patch, we're buffing Lee Sin [again].
Red Ryu7 votesWith that thought... Has anyone ever played Lux/Veigar/Ziggs/TF/Ori into Yasuo? Because the only hope you have to ever do anything in these matchups is hope the Yasuo is hilariously bad
Hoping your enemy laner is trash should not be the only strategy and hope you have at beating them
http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo
You should list his current counters atm. At least ones to a 3% difference over him.
iHerring22 votesI think you read that backwards.
The point was about Yasuo being allowed to wreck the champions he counters, but Sona wrecking the champions she counters gets Sona nerfed.
Red Ryu3 votesI think you read that backwards.
The point was about Yasuo being allowed to wreck the champions he counters, but Sona wrecking the champions she counters gets Sona nerfed.
So favoritism etc etc.
Alright, so who is honestly a counter to Yasuo or has been a traditional one? I know who Sona's were at the time and I have mained since season 2.
Who have yasuo's been?
WhatAGeinius5 votesZed, Annie, Malz, Akali, Swain, Kayle, Fizz, and pretty much any melee champion that can simply out-stat him, which is most of them.
Pika3103 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-11-26T16:55:49.700+0000)
So favoritism etc etc.
Yep, that sounds exactly like Rito through and through.
Red Ryu2 votesYep, that sounds exactly like Rito through and through.
That's cool.
I don't buy it though.
Pika3104 votesLee Sin, Zed, Yasuo, LB: all immune to serious nerfs and immediately get buffed if they fall out of the meta for too long.
Sona, Ahri, Lulu, Twitch, etc.: immune to real buffs, certain champs have never even received a buff since this game first started.
Anyone who doesn't see Rito's discriminatory favoritism is just blatantly close-minded and intentionally blinding themselves to the problems at hand.
Red Ryu2 votesLee Sin, Zed, Yasuo, LB: all immune to serious nerfs and immediately get buffed if they fall out of the meta for too long.
Sona, Ahri, Lulu, Twitch, etc.: immune to real buffs, certain champs have never even received a buff since this game first started.
Anyone who doesn't see Rito's discriminatory favoritism is just blatantly close-minded and intentionally blinding themselves to the problems at hand.
Zed is doing really bad right now due to the mastery changes.
Lee Sin isn't a main problem right now, people who still complain about him are lying to themselves. He is popular, we get that. He is in a fine spot.
Yasuo is under the radar and I am sick of the 1 million Yasuo QQ thread that shares nothing new.
Leblanc isn't a problem either.
~
Sona is doing fantasic right now, you are fooling yourself if you think she is in a garbage spot.
Ahri is fine.
Lulu was borderline pick ban at worlds, any buffs to make her support better will make her solo laning better which is a terrible idea. She isn't an easy think to fix.
Twitch is being looked at.
~
You can post your winrate hate meme all you want and keep pretending Riot doesn't care when they clearly do. Or keep posting vile posts at Riot when they make very well made ad thought out posts about what they think. "riot we know you hate Sona!!!" and stuff like that.
Lets keep the game sane, and not buff champions who don't need it or nerf ones when something very key to the gets nerfed, warlord's and the like"
only zhule1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=0004000000000003000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T03:02:11.197+0000)
Zed is doing really bad right now due to the mastery changes.
Lee Sin isn't a main problem right now, people who still complain about him are lying to themselves. He is popular, we get that. He is in a fine spot.
Yasuo is under the radar and I am sick of the 1 million Yasuo QQ thread that shares nothing new.
Leblanc isn't a problem either.
~
Sona is doing fantasic right now, you are fooling yourself if you think she is in a garbage spot.
Ahri is fine.
Lulu was borderline pick ban at worlds, any buffs to make her support better will make her solo laning better which is a terrible idea. She isn't an easy think to fix.
Twitch is being looked at.
~
You can post your winrate hate meme all you want and keep pretending Riot doesn't care when they clearly do. Or keep posting vile posts at Riot when they make very well made ad thought out posts about what they think. "riot we know you hate Sona!!!" and stuff like that.
Lets keep the game sane, and not buff champions who don't need it or nerf ones when something very key to the gets nerfed, warlord's and the like"
Sona is better off since the most recent change, but she still has room to improve. Generally you have a good level 1, then your early to mid game is totally based off how well your ally(s) pressure the lane. Sona is a horrible sustain champion, and isn't even that impressive of a lane bully without a hyper aggressive ADC backing her.
I would still love to see some more power put into her heal, or at least a longer duration of the shield.
As for her movement speed ability.... that thing is still a mess. Ranks up poorly, doesn't last long enough to help your allies much, the power cord off it is often not enough to matter in regards to catching or escaping an enemy.
Red Ryu2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=00040000000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T04:27:56.747+0000)
Sona is better off since the most recent change, but she still has room to improve. Generally you have a good level 1, then your early to mid game is totally based off how well your ally(s) pressure the lane. Sona is a horrible sustain champion, and isn't even that impressive of a lane bully without a hyper aggressive ADC backing her.
I would still love to see some more power put into her heal, or at least a longer duration of the shield.
As for her movement speed ability.... that thing is still a mess. Ranks up poorly, doesn't last long enough to help your allies much, the power cord off it is often not enough to matter in regards to catching or escaping an enemy.
Her E needs work but she by no means needs a buff, reworking her slightly to where she feels better to play.
I can agree there, but buffing her heal and shield is not the place to start, given how she is one of the better healers of supports, like statistically she is.
only zhule1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=000400000000000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T04:48:49.925+0000)
Her E needs work but she by no means needs a buff, reworking her slightly to where she feels better to play.
I can agree there, but buffing her heal and shield is not the place to start, given how she is one of the better healers of supports, like statistically she is.
I don't think she is actually one of the better healers. She is just one of the few characters were throwing out your heal when ever it's up (assuming you have the mana regen to do so) is actually a decent idea. Your heal is one of if not THE worst heals in the game, the numbers tend to look good because you are throwing out heal after heal, after heal so long as your mana holds out. Also her heal benefits a lot from the usual build path of a metric ton of AP, is you build her with very little AP the heal does jack all.
I personally think a small time buff to her shield is not that big of a power spike. If you don't boost the amounts just the duration, it doesn't do that much in regards to keeping your allies alive, simply removes a bit of the micro management needed to actually use the shield.
One thing i would love to see is a buff up to about 500 range on the utility aspects of her abilities. The extra range would go a long way in keeping Sona a little less prone to AOE counters when attempting to assist her teammates. I still think a low base health pool, low base defense, and a bottom tier movement speed are enough build in counters to an "aura" based champion, even if the aura's are slightly bigger then their current incarnations.
Red Ryu1 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=0004000000000003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T05:38:32.162+0000)
I don't think she is actually one of the better healers. She is just one of the few characters were throwing out your heal when ever it's up (assuming you have the mana regen to do so) is actually a decent idea. Your heal is one of if not THE worst heals in the game, the numbers tend to look good because you are throwing out heal after heal, after heal so long as your mana holds out. Also her heal benefits a lot from the usual build path of a metric ton of AP, is you build her with very little AP the heal does jack all.
I personally think a small time buff to her shield is not that big of a power spike. If you don't boost the amounts just the duration, it doesn't do that much in regards to keeping your allies alive, simply removes a bit of the micro management needed to actually use the shield.
One thing i would love to see is a buff up to about 500 range on the utility aspects of her abilities. The extra range would go a long way in keeping Sona a little less prone to AOE counters when attempting to assist her teammates. I still think a low base health pool, low base defense, and a bottom tier movement speed are enough build in counters to an "aura" based champion, even if the aura's are slightly bigger then their current incarnations.
She statistically is.
Being beat out by Soraka, Nami and Taric for support healing.
Ali only is beating her on some graphs because those count him healing minions for some reason. For raw healing she is better than most supports.
It also adds a shield to it which is important with trades. If you use it just to heal like raka it's not as potent, if you use it to mitigate damage and make trades better it's stronger as an ability.
only zhule1 votes[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=00040000000000030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T05:56:10.145+0000)
She statistically is.
Being beat out by Soraka, Nami and Taric for support healing.
Ali only is beating her on some graphs because those count him healing minions for some reason. For raw healing she is better than most supports.
It also adds a shield to it which is important with trades. If you use it just to heal like raka it's not as potent, if you use it to mitigate damage and make trades better it's stronger as an ability.
part of that is my issue. The shield is nice in theory but the low range of your aura plus the small uptime of the shield make it very hard to land at the right time to mitigate damage. I think either a buff to the duration of the shield (like +1 second), and/or an increase in the area of the aura (say to 500 base range) would do enough that Sona doesn't both have to risk her neck to help her ally while also landing her utility in a very very tight window of usefulness.
Silver Fluffenbu61 votesAnivia is a counter be cause by the time her skillshot reaches Yas, his windwall has had time to dissipate.
maikokk4 votesLOL
Itadaki Seieki7 votesI have played Veigar into Yasuo before, it's not easy but it's doable.
You can win, you just have to purely rely on farming your Q at all times, waiting out his E so you can ulti.
By mid to late game you SHOULD be able to one shot squishies with your combo if your Q is stacked up as well as having a decent item advantage. It's not only that, you -HAVE- -HAVE- -HAVE- to have an item advantage or stalemate with Yasuo or he walks all over you. You can roam bottom for easy ganks, you can roam top to help get assist gold.
You don't have to hope your enemy Yasuo is bad. You have to ensure he doesn't get ahead of you and in your head. This idea of " omg yas op please get him out of my gamezzz " is just silly at this point.
Will add link here later. A tad busy. )
As Veigar you RELY on your enemies making mistakes. With those mistakes, you get stronger. Any mistake they make is a gain for your AP.
magic pole5 votesmeh at least with Yasuo i feel like i have a chance, And thats saying something.
sona is such an uninteractive piece of trash bullshit zero mechanic champion. Either CC and 100-0 her or she sucks the fun out of the game
DJ Di015 votes[{quoted}](name=magic pole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-26T05:49:47.341+0000)
meh at least with Yasuo i feel like i have a chance, And thats saying something.
sona is such an uninteractive piece of trash bullshit zero mechanic champion. Either CC and 100-0 her or she sucks the fun out of the game
Good luck doing literally anything when you're Ahri, TF, Orianna, Ziggs.
Quantum Lotus1 votesSona can still take an adc down to half health with just one q and her passive powered aa in the laning phase. She is a bitch. I don't want her buffed if that is what you are asking for.
Pika3106 votes[{quoted}](name=Nephilim Born,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2015-11-27T14:05:11.836+0000)
Sona can still take an adc down to half health with just one q and her passive powered aa in the laning phase. She is a bitch. I don't want her buffed if that is what you are asking for.
Base AD - 50
Hymn of Valor (Primary Active) - 40
Hymn of Valor (Secondary Active) - 20
Staccato - 18
Spelltheif's Edge - 10*3
Total = 158 Damage
Lowest ADC HP stat in the game = 484 HP
484/2 = 242 HP > 158 Damage
Lowest HP stat in the entire game = 468 HP
468/2 = 234 HP > 158 Damage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Doge%20Meme%202_zpstyytugm4.jpg
Quantum Lotus1 votesIt's not like there is such a thing as AP Runes...
