Why do tank items have horrible cost efficiency?

Dasdi96··10 votes·1,314 views

Look at this: item 3068 for 2900 425 hp = 1133 60 armor = 1200 Total = 2333 = 80% cost efficient item 3742 for 2900 425 hp = 1133 60 armor = 1200 Total = 2333 = 80% cost efficient item 3143 for 2900 350 hp = 933 60 armor = 1200 Total = 2133 = 74% cost efficient (that's just pathetic) item 3194 for 2800 300 hp = 800 55 mr = 990 100% hp regen = 300 10% cdr = 300 Total = 2390 = 85% item 3001 for 2800 300 hp = 800 65 mr = 1170 100% hp regen = 300 10% cdr = 300 Total = 2570 = 92% item 3190 for 2100 30 armor = 600 60 mr = 1080 Total = 1680 = 80% item 3110 for 2700 400 mana= 560 90 armor = 1800 20% cdr = 600 Total = 2960 = 110%, but mana is usually not useful for a tank, so in actuality, total = 2400 = 89% item 1409 for 2625, 400 hp = 1067, 15% hp = 300 hp = 800, lets say you have 2000 bonus hp Total = 1867 = 71% (seriously wtf) item 3065 for 2800 450 hp = 1200 55 mr = 990 100% hp regen = 300 10% cdr = 300 Total = 2790 = 100% item 3075 for 2350 100 armor = 2000 Total = 2000 = 85%

Seriously, armor items for tanks are so cost inefficient but they need them to survive adcs and ad assassins. What makes it worse is items like item 3153 item 3036 item 3071 devalue tank items even more making them even more cost inefficient. If the enemy adc has a last whisper, item 3143 becomes 59% gold efficient against him. Not to mention tanks don't have much to mitigate burst ad damage, so if a zed gets fed and gets some %shred, well lets just say you won't last long. Seriously, I am better off stacking item 1011 and item 1031 to try to tank instead of investing in horribly inefficient items. I suggest we buff the base stats on them so that tanks can actually feel good about buying them.

27 Comments

Joseph Gladstone5 votes

the question im always asking is why is item 3107 so god damn cheap for how good it is

Annoxis4 votes

Because it is a support item.

Really, there is no other particular reason.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

Because they balance for LCS and the best strategy is to have tanks on your team.

IcyPepper3 votes

Because they balance for LCS and the best strategy is to have an ADC on your team.

fixed

Junglerz Fault3 votes

Riot wants to nerf all tanks, they don't want long games with strategy. The crybabies have taken over and they want 20 minute games with 100 kills on each team. It's pretty obvious.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

are you not including any passives ?

Dasdi967 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZvBlVYJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-22T06:15:12.616+0000)

are you not including any passives ?

There is a problem with that argment, that is that most damage items have decent gold efficiency without passive: item 3812 for 3500 80 ad = 2800 15% vamp = 562 (comes from 10% = 375) 10% cdr = 300 Total = 3662 = 105% item 3814 for 3100 55 ad = 1925 35 mr = 630 15 lethality = 337 Total = 2892 = 93% item 1408 for 2625 60 ad = 2100 10% cdr = 300 Total = 2400 = 91% item 3508 for 3400 70 ad = 2450 20% crit = 800 10% cdr = 300 Total = 3550 = 104% item 3022 for 3100 700 hp = 1867 30 ad = 1080 Total = 2947 = 95% item 3030 for 300 300 hp = 800 400 mana = 560 80 ap = 1740 Total = 3100 = 103% item 3146 for 3400 40 ad = 1400 80 ap = 1740 15% vamp = 562 Total = 3702 = 109% item 3152 for 2500 300 hp = 800 60 ap = 1305 10% cdr = 300 Total = 2405 = 96% item 3156 for 3250 50 ad = 1750 45 mr = 810 10% cdr = 300 Total = 2860 = 88% Lifegrip activated: 20 ad = 700 10% life steal = 375 Total with lifegrip = 3935 = 121% item 3139 for 3600 65 ad = 2340 35 mr = 630 10% life steal = 375 Total = 3345 = 93% item 3165 for 2900 100 ap = 2175 400 mana = 560 20% cdr = 600 Total = 3335 = 115% (holy shit) item 3046 for 2600 45% as = 1125 30% crit = 1200 5% speed = 195 Total = 2520 = 93% item 3071 for 3000 400 hp = 1067 40 ad = 1400 20% cdr = 600 Total = 3067 = 102% item 3072 for 3700 80 ad = 2800 20% life steal = 750 Total = 3550 = 96% item 3078 for 3733 250 hp = 667 250 mana = 350 25 ad = 900 40% as = 1000 20% cdr = 600 5% speed = 195 Total = 3713 = 99% item 3142 for 2900 60 ad = 2100 10% cdr = 300 15 lethality = 337 Total = 2737 = 94%

FireDrizzle2 votes

Gold effiecency is flawed, according to gold effiecency vamp sceptor is only 25 g better than pickaxe. Another example is 75 hp has the same "gold value" as 10 armour but hp is a better stat so swapping the stats on the tank items was actually a nerf. I saw that coming and made a thread before the change went through. I usually only build Ninja tabi for armour on Warwick and im really tanky from hp stacking.

Still this thread makes a point item 3075 for 2350 100 armor = 2000 Total = 2000 = 85%

85% "gold effiecent" before black cleaver stacks and a last whisper item!

Aptest1 votes

"gold efficiency" is a flawed concept because it takes zero account the actual value of a stat: it is simply a measure of how much stats an item grants based on the baseline.

for instance if cloth armor gets 20g cheaper the "efficiency" of all it's recipes goes up. However their actual desirability / value does not.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

You do realize those items have other abilities you need to account for right?

Paroe3 votes

{quoted}

You do realize those items have other abilities you need to account for right?

An item should be gold efficient on its stats (at least 90%) with the passive icing on the cake, unless the passive is REALLY good.

@thread Tanks arent meant to scale into the late game and are only meant to be useful as initiators/meatshields/CCbots in the mid game. A tank who does their job in the lategame is a tank to strong in riots eyes. The only exception is "raid bosses" and "hyper tanks"; champions which are meant to scale infinitely and champions who have built in powerful tank which allows them the purchase of a item 3748 without sacrificing anything.

MrHaZeYo2 votes

That's not true at all, most items aren't cost efficient with just there raw stats.

Durzaka3 votes

Actually it is true in almost every case.

Go look at OPs other post in this thread. Almost every offensive item in the game is at 90%+ efficiency before you even factor in any of the passives or active portions of the item.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Tank items have horrible cost efficiency because their component items, namely cloth armor and ruby crystal, are super efficient. Defensive stats are simply much more gold efficient than offensive stats up until the completed items at which point they take a dip to compensate for their low cost.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Tanks naturally make the game longer.

Junglerz Fault1 votes

Which means more strategy and isn't just a smashing your keys affair.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

longer games means more strategy

This is factually incorrect. Look at fighting games.

Ralanr3 votes

Fighting games don't have abilities that can take you down from 0-100 in one combo.

Or snowballing.

This isn't a fighting game. The strategy is more than mechanics.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Fighting games don't have abilities that can take you down from 0-100 in one combo.

They literally do.

snowballing

THEY LITERALLY DO!

And yeah, I'd agree that League has more room for strategic play but that is in no way connected to how long a game goes. Hence my example of fighting games. Tons of strategy in a single match but on a much shorter timer.

A more close comparison would also be Rainbow 6: Siege. Shittons of strategy, short timer.

Ralanr2 votes

Fair enough. I assumed we were over glorifying mechanics again.

Junglerz Fault1 votes

Did you play league when the games were longer? It doesn't sound like it.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Yeah I did.

It was awful because people would just dance around. In tournaments people who pick whole teams w/o hard engage. Early game would be full of people who refuse to try and harass in lane, preferring to passively farm, even if they wereLucian Pantheon etc.

Junglerz Fault1 votes

There was actually strategy back then. Maybe you just had some bad games.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Strategy available is in no way connected to how long a game goes. Hence my example of fighting games. Tons of strategy in a single match but on a much shorter timer.

A more close comparison would also be Rainbow 6: Siege. Shittons of strategy, short timer.

Meep Man1 votes

Not sure entirely. Tanks usually have good base kits to compensate, but not sure.

Sohleks1 votes

Cloth armor now costs 400g.

bam they are now more gold efficient

great metric

Gold efficiency doesn't directly translate to combat effectiveness. Acquiring one stat can change the combat effectiveness of another stat. If everyone started the game with max attack speed it changes the practical value of AD but doesn't change the gold efficiency which they measured from basic components. "Gold efficiency" is kind of arbitrary.

Tank items got nerfed because they felt it was necessary... However. I'm not sure about the direction.

Gold efficiency IS saying tanks are getting less from their money as they complete items compared to offensive classes. And on top of that tank items being less slot efficient. Is no wonder they shrivel into pawns end game. In my opinion tanks or at least some of them should have end game fantasies too. And if their items are cheaper and less efficient how the heck can that be possible..?

What if tank items had more stats but more cost? Would carries start to poach them end game.?

Ahristocats1 votes

dafuq?

solari is insane and doesn't need buffs

i agree for the others

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