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Quinn and Valor

Valor Bot··2 votes·738 views

Hi everyone,

Here is a list of gameplay changes I’ve brainstormed for Quinn and Valor. Please note that I do not think all these changes should be implemented in tandem, as that would make them ridiculously overpowered. They are just some ideas that I think could help them stay competitive given the fact there are so many other Champions way better suited for the roles they fulfill.

HARRIER (PASSIVE)

  1. Make Harrier procs visible only to Quinn and her allies
  2. Allow Quinn more direct control over Harrier procs (i.e., apply Harrier upon every third auto attack)
  3. Allow Harrier procs to persist through Tag Team

BLINDING ASSAULT (Q)

  1. Remove the blind from her Blinding Assault and give it an obscuring effect a la Graves
  2. Remove the blind from her Blinding Assault and give it increased damage
  3. Increase the radius of Blinding Assault’s area of effect
  4. Make Blinding Assault launch through all enemies in its path rather than colliding with the first
  5. Increase the duration of Quinn's blind per rank of Blinding Assault

HEIGHTENED SENSES (W)

  1. Allow Quinn to reveal any area of the map with her Heightened Senses
  2. Give Quinn multiple charges of her Heightened Senses
  3. Reduce the cooldown of Quinn’s Heightened Senses
  4. Give Quinn lingering vision of any Champions revealed through Heightened Senses

VAULT (E)

  1. Make Quinn untargetable during her Vault
  2. Make Quinn immune to crowd control effects during her Vault
  3. Allow Quinn to choose where she lands with her Vault
  4. Allow Quinn to “stack" Harrier procs by Vaulting off of a Vulnerable target for increased damage output
  5. Increase the slow duration and/or effect on Quinn’s Vault
  6. Remove the blind from her Blinding Assault and give her Vault an obscuring effect a la Graves
  7. Remove the Harrier proc that follows Vault and have Quinn automatically deal that damage mid-flip
  8. Remove the self-stun that occurs every now and then when Quinn uses her Vault on an enemy Champion

TAG TEAM/SKYSTRIKE (R)

  1. Reduce the cooldown on Tag Team
  2. Begin the cooldown timer on Tag Team as soon as it is active rather than after
  3. Refresh some or all of Quinn's cooldowns upon activation of Tag Team
  4. Remove Tag Team’s cooldown, allowing Quinn to switch freely between herself and Valor
  5. Remove Valor's in-combat movement speed decay
  6. Replace the attack speed steroid on Tag Team with an attack damage steroid
  7. Allow Valor to fly over obstacles such as walls during Tag Team
  8. Allow Harrier procs to persist through Tag Team
  9. Make Valor undying, allowing him to chew through his enemies before switching back
  10. Give Quinn and Valor separate health and/or mana bars
  11. Automatically proc Skystrike upon Valor's death
  12. Give Valor some sort of defense/sustain during Tag Team

OTHER

  1. Increase Quinn’s range from 520 to 550
  2. Increase Quinn’s base stats
  3. Give Quinn a smoother auto-attack animation
  4. Give Quinn a texture update
  5. Give Quinn a definitive place in the meta and allow her kit to shine - is she an AD carry, assassin, or fighter?

Please let me know if there’s anything else you guys would like to add to this list, I'm open to other suggestions!

Zelardo

12 Comments

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Make Harrier procs visible only to Quinn and her allies

The first one is something I've always wanted for her. With her short range, when you mark the enemy in lane they just back off until it fades.

Valor Bot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AYYhTt8p,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-02T05:37:37.898+0000)

The first one is something I've always wanted for her. With her short range, when you mark the enemy in lane they just back off until it fades.

This, along with the clunky auto attack animation and buggy Harrier prioritization is what irks me the most about playing Quinn. If Harrier marks were invisible to enemies, it would be much easier for her to dish out some surprise burst damage every now and again. But I suppose it's only fair given the fact other Champions also share similar disadvantages with respect to their abilities: Varus' Blighted Quiver, Twitch's Deadly Venom, Vel'Koz's Organic Deconstruction, etc.

Then again, their burst damage isn't reliant upon a semi-random passive, so I think this could justify hiding Harrier marks from enemies altogether.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Quinn has the worst of those imo. Twitch has a huge range to Expunge, more than Kalista's Rend I think, and Varus can proc at 1 or 2 stacks, has no CD between putting more on and nobody is outranging Q without outranging their own experience :3

Zyorhist2 votes

I play Quinn a lot and very few of these actually fit into her theme and feel. I disagree but I'm still upvoting because you put a lot of thought into it.

Valor Bot1 votes

Thanks! I think some of the suggestions would change her in-game feel by a little bit, but would improve her gameplay some as well.

kJs1 votes

Quinn Is in a perfectly fine position at this moment and will be for many coming months. She doesn't need any buffs or mechanical changes to any of her abilities and passives.

Quinn's mix of high mobility and Blind is the only reason why she is a hard counter against any Yasuos. She's also one of the only two champions that can blind; the other being Teemo.

I might welcome the ability for Quinn to switch from Valor at any time removing the cooldowns, but I am afraid Riot will have to tone down her Assassination potential or else she will be the most OP ADC/Top laner in the game. So I'd rather keep the cooldown on.

Valor = Assassin Quinn = ADC

Check this out. Try it for yourself even.

http://boards.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-strategy/bubgu2En-quinn-is-really-strong

1000angrybees1 votes

A compromise on the enemy seeing harrier's mark: Let the enemy see harrier on minions, pets and monsters but not champs. Keeps them guessing in who she's aiming for outside of minions.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Here's a list of changes I want for Quinn and Valor

All bugs fixed Smoother auto animation

Boom, 110% viable. I say 110 because I honestly think she'd be on the strong side after those.

Valor Bot1 votes

There were some pretty neat ideas posted up on the Quinn ACTUAL Champion Spotlight thread yesterday, so I've decided to include a few of them here:

• Increase the duration of Quinn's blind per rank of Blinding Assault • Give Quinn lingering vision of any Champions revealed through Heightened Senses • Remove the Harrier proc that follows Vault and have Quinn automatically deal that damage mid-flip • Automatically proc Skystrike upon Valor's death

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Allow Quinn more direct control over Harrier procs (i.e., apply Harrier upon every third auto attack)

No. It marks them as vulnerable. You aren't vulnerable after 3 attacks, and if you are, you'd be vulnerable for every attack after. The Harrier marks are supposed to be random or triggered by her abilities.

  1. Remove the blind from her Blinding Assault and give it an obscuring effect a la Graves

No. Graves' blind you can walk out of. With this, you wouldn't, you would be stuck not seeing anything as if Nocturne ulted and only you got blinded. Would be so BS because you couldn't even run.

  1. Make Blinding Assault launch through all enemies in its path rather than colliding with the first

Ew no. AD team = null(except casters like Renekton)

  1. Allow Quinn to reveal any area of the map with her Heightened Senses
  2. Give Quinn multiple charges of her Heightened Senses
  3. Reduce the cooldown of Quinn’s Heightened Senses
  4. Give Quinn lingering vision of any Champions revealed through Heightened Senses

So basically you want Quinn to have a 2x better Ashe Hawkshot? More sight, charges just like, less cooldown, and vision as if you used an orb or clairvoyance.

  1. Make Quinn untargetable during her Vault

What, you want a ranged Fizz?

  1. Make Quinn immune to crowd control effects during her Vault

no.

  1. Allow Quinn to choose where she lands with her Vault

The whole idea of Vault is to use skill to land where you want, bait out melee's to follow her until she vaults away, and possibly land to safety. With this, it wouldn't be as fast and more clunky, as well as a bit unfair as they wouldn't even know where you'd move.

  1. Allow Quinn to “stack" Harrier procs by Vaulting off of a Vulnerable target for increased damage output

A target can't be double vulnerable, it doesn't work.

  1. Remove the blind from her Blinding Assault and give her Vault an obscuring effect a la Graves

Why would vaulting off somebody blind them?

  1. Remove the Harrier proc that follows Vault and have Quinn automatically deal that damage mid-flip

No. Vault is used defensively or offensively to get into position for an attack, not an extra damage dealer which she honestly doesn't need.

  1. Begin the cooldown timer on Tag Team as soon as it is active rather than after

Pretty sure it is, it just doesn't show it until you end. So if its 60 seconds, if you're Valor for 10 seconds it'll still be 50 seconds by the time you end.

  1. Remove Tag Team’s cooldown, allowing Quinn to switch freely between herself and Valor

Super AD Nidalee no She might as well have free however-fast-Valor-is movement speed.

  1. Replace the attack speed steroid on Tag Team with an attack damage steroid

So wait, bird claws are supposed to do more damage than getting impaled with a cross bow arrow?

  1. Make Valor undying, allowing him to chew through his enemies before switching back

duh no "Hey lets go gank Quinn she's all alone!" woops just valor'd and t-t-t-triplleee killll or heck just run the heck away and nobody gets you.

  1. Give Quinn and Valor separate health and/or mana bars

Too big of an advantage. Quinn until you're almost dead then Valor with Guardian Angel and wham you're ranged-to-melee Aatrox without the lifesteal.

Valor Bot1 votes

No. It marks them as vulnerable. You aren't vulnerable after 3 attacks, and if you are, you'd be vulnerable for every attack after. The Harrier marks are supposed to be random or triggered by her abilities.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're trying to say here is that the change would be too unrealistic. That is, you're arguing that it is more believable for Valor to swoop down every now and then and mark someone as Vulnerable than for him to do it upon Quinn's every third basic attack, and so it follows that the change shouldn't take place.

But this is a video game. If the designers want a fair, even game, then they will prioritize gameplay balance over realism. Keep in mind that this sort of thing happens in other areas of League of Legends anyway, such as when Baron Nashor miraculously comes back to life every seven minutes after his death.

I'm not suggesting we should just throw away Quinn's thematics for the sake of her kit. I don't think that's what this change to her passive calls for; honestly, if we really wanted to excuse this change to Harrier from a lore standpoint, we could say Quinn has trained Valor to mark enemies upon every third strike.

No. Graves' blind you can walk out of. With this, you wouldn't, you would be stuck not seeing anything as if Nocturne ulted and only you got blinded. Would be so BS because you couldn't even run.

There are a few ways this could be balanced; namely, the "blind" could be made to last a very short amount of time (i.e., 0.5 second). I didn't consider the fact that Graves' blind is localized, though, so you make a good point :)

Ew no. AD team = null(except casters like Renekton)

I agree that they would need to nerf her in other areas to excuse this change. Maybe decreasing the range of Blinding Assault, or making the skillshot more difficult to land.

So basically you want Quinn to have a 2x better Ashe Hawkshot? More sight, charges just like, less cooldown, and vision as if you used an orb or clairvoyance.

Like I said in my opening post, I don't want all of the changes to be implemented together. Each one is a different and separate idea to be taken into consideration. Of course giving Quinn all of these buffs would make her stupidly overpowered.

What, you want a ranged Fizz?

Fizz's dash does not require an enemy target for it to take place and, if I'm not mistaken, lasts longer than Quinn's.

The whole idea of Vault is to use skill to land where you want, bait out melee's to follow her until she vaults away, and possibly land to safety. With this, it wouldn't be as fast and more clunky, as well as a bit unfair as they wouldn't even know where you'd move.

Pulling off a successful Vault would still require skill, the problem is how to design it so that it doesn't become a clunky ability to use. I don't think this change would be unfair though; even without it, Quinn's enemies still can't be sure of where she is going to move anyway since she can hop backwards at any given direction assuming she positions herself correctly.

A target can't be double vulnerable, it doesn't work.

I know it doesn't work, that's why I'm suggesting the change.

Why would vaulting off somebody blind them?

Maybe she kicks them in the eyes?

No. Vault is used defensively or offensively to get into position for an attack, not an extra damage dealer which she honestly doesn't need.

Vault, in its current state, is the only ability that gives Quinn a certain Harrier proc. But sometimes, her enemies move out of range after she has Vaulted them, so she is unable to consume the proc and deal the bonus damage, making the entire maneuver a waste of time and mana. Not only that, but a person who knows how to play against Quinn will always avoid her when Harrier marks them. This leaves very little room for Quinn to deal any of the burst damage that she is required to dish out.

Removing the automatic Harrier proc from Vault and instead attaching that damage to Vault itself would help avoid some of the awkwardness that results from her enemies moving out of her short, 525 range.

Pretty sure it is, it just doesn't show it until you end. So if its 60 seconds, if you're Valor for 10 seconds it'll still be 50 seconds by the time you end.

It isn't; the cooldown begins once Skystrike takes place, or upon death if Tag Team is still active.

Super AD Nidalee no She might as well have free however-fast-Valor-is movement speed.

Yes, buffing her in this way would require some nerfing in other areas.

So wait, bird claws are supposed to do more damage than getting impaled with a cross bow arrow?

Again, gameplay balance vs. believability.

duh no "Hey lets go gank Quinn she's all alone!" woops just valor'd and t-t-t-triplleee killll or heck just run the heck away and nobody gets you.

Too big of an advantage. Quinn until you're almost dead then Valor with Guardian Angel and wham you're ranged-to-melee Aatrox without the lifesteal.

Haha, this would need to be balanced :) maybe reducing the duration of and decreasing the buffs she gets from her Ultimate. I just feel Valor should have some degree of survivability if he's going to be in melee range.

Thanks for the feedback.

Valor Bot1 votes

Added a new idea to the list, but it's more of a bug fix than a kit suggestion (assuming this is in fact a bug):

• Remove the self-stun that occurs every now and then when Quinn uses her Vault on an enemy Champion

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