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Still can't believe they're going through with Morgana damage nerfs.

Illabethe··8 votes·2,799 views

You know..... today..... I'm outside building my new Greenhouse.... and I come in and see 9.7 official notes.... and what do I see?

Yup. Morg nerfs going into effect.

I pride myself as a decent Morgana player. A REALLY good one. Who can counter most counters.

You know what I find particularly funny? My damage per game about averages out to what everyone else's does. If my game's went long enough for an adc or top to do 27,000 damage, that's about the damage I'm doing on Morgana, even if I have a massive lead, and am hitting multiple targets with R and W.

And then I get on Zyra, and don't even build her full AP, but rather some build like item 1402 item 2065 item 3100 item 3905 item 3135 item 3020 ..... and pull 68,000 damage in a 17-21k damage game.

On both champs I score 50-120 CC scores. But I sure as hell don't win on Morgana because of damage. I win because her Q lasts 3 seconds, and sets up fish in a barrel for my teammates.

I wish they'd actually address the real strength of Morgana, and not take away her damage over and over.

(And yes; I've been on the receiving end of an almost killing Q/W from Morg when I have no Resist. I know it sucks. But it sucks more because of Q than the actual soil)

You know what's even funnier? Even Ornn can mid lane and win vs Morgana. His % Max HP damage counters her E, and after that he just controls the lane. In fact, a lot of mids counter Morgana, or at least win the matchup. Zed Ziggs Zilean all win outright, and about half the roster can outplay her.

27 Comments

VoraciousX2 votes

You're not building much damage on Morgana when you play her, so building less damage and dealing the same damage as your ADC by the end of the game is a little on the strong side. In addition to this, Morgana was already one of the top supports before the "mini rework" where they literally just buffed her. Her losing some damage isn't going to kill her off, and here's the thing about Morgana's extra power that they added. It does more damage the lower the enemy's health is. This means that you're not gonna do more damage unless their health is lower. You can't be building a Frozen Heart and expecting the same damage as your ADC late game. As for the Zyra complaint, Zyra is built for burst damage, not sustained damage like Morgana. To reach the levels of damage where you can just outright kill someone with Morgana, you need to have item 3027 item 3116item 3020 item 3151 item 3916. At this point most people will die with one Q>W, and the first tick of R damage if you don't finish them off with a Q>W.

Another thing to note is you generally go for late game items like tear, or RoA. The fact that you're ending the game with same damage as your ADC without even being level 16 in most games with items like item 3003 or item 3027 is concerning.

Illabethe2 votes

You do realize Transcendence creates a lot of AP? Without Death Cap that "no AP build" has 470 AP at 4 items.

I also build differently per game.

Furthermore, tanky builds let you stay around to fight longer.

Your build literally has NO CDR. And you're trying to tell me how to play or that I'm wrong? lmfao.

And most games not being 16? What? Maybe in a game where my team is int feeding so I have to give up my farm/role to try to prevent their complete collapse? Most games I am the first to 18. By like 4-5 minutes.

If anything I build less AP on Zyra than I do on Morg.

item 3135 item 3100 item 2065 item 3905 item 1402 . < This build does 68k damage.

And lmfao.... Zyra is the definition of sustained damage lol.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

You do realize Transcendence creates a lot of AP? Without Death Cap that "no AP build" has 470 AP at 4 items.

I also build differently per game.

Furthermore, tanky builds let you stay around to fight longer.

Your build literally has NO CDR. And you're trying to tell me how to play or that I'm wrong? lmfao.

And most games not being 16? What? Maybe in a game where my team is int feeding so I have to give up my farm/role to try to prevent their complete collapse? Most games I am the first to 18. By like 4-5 minutes.

If anything I build less AP on Zyra than I do on Morg.

item 3135 item 3100 item 2065 item 3905 item 1402 . < This build does 68k damage.

And lmfao.... Zyra is the definition of sustained damage lol.

Most of your games end before you're level 16, or the ones I see do. On your profile page you have only 2 games where you reached level 18 on Morgana. You don't even have 4 items most of the time on your Morg games. Also Transcendence does NOT give a ton of AP. Think about how much you're getting out of this build that you had for example: item 3174 10% CDR item 3040 10% CDR item 3157 10% CDRitem 3111 No CDR item 3916 No CDR item 3065 10% CDR(Wait when did Spirit Visage lose 10% CDR? I was expecting you to AT LEAST get 20 AP from Transcendence). So in total you got 0 AP from Transcendence. As for the AP out of those items being 470 AP...let's look at these 4 items again:item 3174 50 APitem 3040 132 AP(assuming Morgana is level 18)item 3157 75 APitem 3165 70AP(assuming this is what you mean by 4 items, not counting boots). You get...327 AP from those 4 items. You seem to be off quite a bit. Guess how much AP I would have by 4 items? 335. I would also have more health, my level wouldn't be factored in with my AP(meaning I wouldn't need level 18 to even get to 327 AP like you had), and my target selection wouldn't matter as much due to having rylai's and liandry's.

As for the items I built not having CDR in them, why do I need CDR? Morgana has relatively short cooldowns, and her W is back up by the time it ends when you Q>W someone. The only reason I would need CDR would be for E and R, but R is up enough as it is and I don't need to use it that often, and E is only needed when I mess up, or if I wanna go in on someone without worrying about CC. What MY items offer is protection. I have a lot more health than you do, meaning I die less, my mana never runs out, and I don't have to stack a tear. In addition, your build gives you AP for your mana, and AP for your mana regen, but you don't build any mana or mana regen outside of the items that are made to be synergistic with other items. If you want defense that would synergize with your items, you'd be much better off with item 3001. It at least gives you some mana which is converted to AP through item 3040. If you're building item 3174, you should also be building mana regen like item 2065(This item would give you 60 AP)item 3107 (This item would give you 30 AP)item 3504 (this item would give you 70 AP). If you're building item 3040 you should be building more mana like item 3285 (This item would give you 108 AP)item 3001 (This would be good all around, you'd only get 9 AP for it but all of your damage is increased by 15% when you're going in on them with ult, you'd be more tanky, it'd work with transcendence assuming you still want to use that, etc)item 3027 (This item only gets better with Archangel's Staff. You get 112 AP from it, you're tankier, have some extra sustain, etc).

And as for the Zyra being sustained damage thing, she isn't. She spawns plants, roots you, and Qs you, and you die. At least when you build her full AP. Her ult even makes her burstier.

Illabethe2 votes
  1. Seraph's gives 20% CDR
  2. The total on that is 60% CDR. Or, 40 AP.

Also, it's not what I always build. And we were talking about item 3110 , which when added brings it up to 80 AP.

LMFAO and Morgana Q not having a long cooldown with no CDR. E has a low cooldown? Lmfao. P.S. You try to escape a fed Draven with your build. He can literally chase you right over your W with Rylai's.

You're missing Eyeball Collection, Base AP, and Gathering Storm, btw.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Seraph's gives 20% CDR
  2. The total on that is 60% CDR. Or, 40 AP.

Also, it's not what I always build. And we were talking about item 3110 , which when added brings it up to 80 AP.

LMFAO and Morgana Q not having a long cooldown with no CDR. E has a low cooldown? Lmfao. P.S. You try to escape a fed Draven with your build. He can literally chase you right over your W with Rylai's.

You're missing Eyeball Collection, Base AP, and Gathering Storm, btw.

Oh right, forgot Transcendence gives 10% CDR. Still isn't going to help you much damage wise when you're building items that don't give AP. Also if you swapped Spirit Visage for Frozen Heart you'd only reach 60% CDR, meaning 40 AP. That's still much less than you'd get from an actual AP item, and it gives no health and only armor. If you're playing her support, you're not going for damage, and you're definitely not going for target agnostic damage, and that's fine, but you shouldn't be expecting to do tons of damage with less of a focus on actual damage. The items you build matter, not JUST the AP you get from them. You're still wasting your synergistic items.

As for escaping a fed Draven, it'd be about the same as a non-fed one. Sure he might walk right over my Rylai's, but think about it. Once he gets hit by a Rylai's slow, he's then an even easier target for your Q. He just lost movement speed.

As for the cooldown complaint, I remember saying her E would be the only problematic cooldown. You don't need to throw out a Q every 6 seconds, and if her lowest cooldown outside of ultimate is 15 seconds on a defensive ability that negates CC and can be used on anyone, I'd say she has it pretty easy. Fiora's W for example is 16 seconds and she actually has to be in the middle of a fight, Yasuo's Wind Wall is 18 seconds, etc etc.

QaphsieI1 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Morgana/Middle/

look at her win rate vs game length. She loses win rate every minute the game is played.

And yeah. She doesn't do much damage.

Azadethe1 votes

Spoken for truth.

Ahri Baka1 votes

You can't compare Zyra to Morgana , Morgana is completely a better champion and You know that Morgana full AP kills any squishy with Q + W only?

  • Morgana has her black shield that is almost a counter play to everything , and her stats when it comes to Winrate and Pick rate and Ban rate are huge , and a nerf is a MUST

Thought what's really strong about her is her black shield but they can't nerf that because it's her Identity

Illabethe1 votes

Read my post. I've been on the receiving end. And, you just said one very important think: Squishy.

Btw, it also requires her to be fed to do so, and usually to pop off at least one hit of her R, or an Ignite. It also only happens because said Squishy buys Berserker Greaves and has 0 Tenacity vs a 3 second Root.

I'm all for reducing the duration of her root, or increasing Q's cooldown. What I'm NOT for is reducing W's damage, which is already trivial unless fronted by a Q and R.

E was only her "identity" after Season 6. And even then, R is more of an identity than E. E has just been overbuffed. I also endorsed them reducing the per tier shield on E from 70 to 60, so the scaling would be 60/120/180/210/240 instead of 70/140/210/280/350. That would be a huge E nerf in reality, but would still block CC and soak a lot of damage.

Comparing Zyra to Morgana isn't appropriate? lmfao. Ever hit an entire team Zyra's R after you have 30+ stacks of Dark Harvest? Lmfao. There's no competitive who influences the game more.

The only thing Zyra lacks is Defensive capability, which is precisely why I run her on move speed items. Ever try to kill a Zyra running at 527 move speed who has item 2065 item 3905 ? Good luck catching me...... while I just turn around and kill you in .25 seconds as I predict where you're going to run next, and force you to run in that path.

There is no competition in their damage. I can do nearly 68 k champ damage with Zyra in the same time I do 27-30 k with Morg.

Zyra's CC is also FAR more reliable, since E can hit whole teams, where Morg can only hit one (The only times I die on Morgana is when I have 4 people chasing me and I can only Q one)

vgamedude1 votes

Typical riot garbage. Don't nerf vayne or overtuned adcs right clicking people and killing them in three shots. Nerf the mage who was in the sidelines for so long because she's finally useful.

So glad I don't play this game anymore. They don't care about anything besides esport trash, streamers and "right click outplay".

Morgana Deus1 votes

I've been a Morgana OTP since season 1. Before the rework I was a few hundred games into the season at a 60% win rate. About 2/3rds of my game were support, and 1/3rd mid. Since the update I've played another hundred games or so. I'm still at a 60% win rate.

If these buffs were really that strong shouldn't my win rate have spiked considerably? I have about 10000 Morgana games played over the years. I would say I've mastered every aspect of the champion. Why am I not seeing a significant increase in win rate if she's "overpowered"?

She's in a good place right now, but frankly if they didn't buff her at all I'd still be doing just as well. I'd say the nerf is idiotic, but the buffs were idiotic anyway.

Illabethe2 votes

That's another thing; Among pros, Morgana's best players have a win rate average of 58%. How many champs do we loathe so much that have 65-70% win rates when played well by pros? Her win rate average may be high right now, but the deviation from that win rate is usually only 4%? That means..... in her current build, she's inflexible, and generally can't control games beyond a point.

hrooza dota 1 votes

so you guys expected riot to change their mind of morgana change because 2 morgana mains on the boards told them its a bad change?

[sg-lux-2]

Illabethe1 votes

Nah. I expect them to actually dig deeper and explore more alternatives, and comparatively evaluate her versus the strengths of OTHER champions, different types of nerfs, etc.

How many champions do we complain about on a daily basis are more powerful than Morg?

Why do players ban Morg? Is it because of her weak W, or is it because they don't like dealing with a 3 Second Root? Or is it because they like relying on their CC and Morg mitigates that?

And then.... you have to look at Neeko's Root, Zyra's Root, and say...... they can hit entire teams. Morgana can only hit 1. They also have far more up front damage, control games to a greater degree (Zyra is far more anti-engage than Morgana is; Morgana = make her miss Q and all in. Zyra = If we all go in, there's a chance we're going to die, even if we kill her)

hrooza dota 1 votes

i mean they dont nerf based on this place complains (and a lot of complained champions are not really weak..)

and the nerfs dont always hit the strongest part of champion (remember lucian last nerf? it was not to his strong abilitys but it effected him)

you cant compare morgana to zyra or neeko because (both sides have roots) and say morgana is weaker because she have less damage, morgana have more defensive abilitys (a shield that says fuck cc is pretty pretty powerfull) she have better wave clear, she have more range on her root (at least comparing it to neeko root which is way to easy to dodge if you not behind minions)

and for the zyra anti engage part zyra missing her E pretty much open her to death and she completely get destroyed if she miss it, and she is a champion that only support at this point because she cant mid at all these days unless she face multi melee champions comp if anything zyra anti engage is weaker then morgana one and i would say its the main reason she only support at this point.

Illabethe1 votes

You fix what will line the champ up with your performance expectations. If they want to drive her down to 50-52%, hitting W isn't going to achieve that. A hit to Q or E would.

You do realize Zyra has a completely unused passive or W? They (Both Zyra and Morgana) BOTH have 3 damage abilities. Plant spawning is comparable to Morg E when used correctly.

I frequently block skill shots on Zyra by spawning plants, for example.

And yes. I can compare them, because I play all three. There is NO COMPETITION. Zyra is #1. Neeko is #2. Morgana is #3. (I have over 7 million combined Morgana Mastery, 5.3 million Zyra Mastery, and 1.1 million Neeko Mastery).

You're also wrong on the roots.

  1. Morgana gets blocked in nearly 60% of occasions simply by minions being nearby. I've literally not been able to save a teammate, because he ganked a Kayn clearing Raptors. I couldn't get a line on the Kayn because the raptor kept pathing the only actual angle I could reach him. If it was Zyra, I would have saved my ally.

  2. Dark Binding: 1175 range Tangle Barbs: 1000 range Grasping Roots 1100 range. Hardly much difference, and Morgana's is the only one with conditions to hit.

Morg Speed: 1200 Neeko Speed: 1300 Zyra Speed: 1150 - Morgana not only has conditions to hit, but also has comparative speed/slower move speed on her root.

I never miss roots on ANY of these champs. EVER.

Please don't talk about Zyra to me. You're not on my level playing her if you think I'm going to miss E, and that I'm going to die even if I miss E. I literally have 528-700 move speed on Zyra, never miss, can cast while walking, and average 35 DH stacks a game or more. Get on my level.

P.S. I Jungle and Top Zyra more than I Support her. Jungle has over a 70% win rate. I also never lose with her mid, as unlike Morg, she has a competitive attack range.

P.P.S I'd love to know how you think 1 target root is more anti engage than a team hitting Root, and a Knockup that you don't have to stay back to commit to. If you Ult while "running" as Morgana, you're almost always going to die. Zyra can just pop it and go.

hrooza dota 1 votes

i think they just want to weaken mid morg without hitting support one thats why they hit W and not Q/E.

zyra W and passive both deal damage in a sense (zyra damage is not high without the plants smacking you tbh

no you cant compare them and no your ranking is not true just because you said so, morgana is a better midlaner then mage neeko (on hit neeko is something else and that was hit hard so hey ho) and mid lane zyra because she simple have better wave clearing (i think another reason for the nerf is her W wave and leave play style)

ok im little wrong on roots but im still right that you cant just compare champions based on one ability, does not matter if you play the 3 or not they have different styles and whatever.

and for your p.s : where is the 70% jungle winrate on zyra? i would like to see the pick rate/elo and not some random personal stat .

and for your p.s.s : morgana have both a single long ass target root and ulti stun (granted its deleyed, just like zyra knockup btw) and most importantly a (no fuck CC) ability.

im saying she is more anti engage as a champion not as an ability.

Illabethe1 votes

W and Passive do damage that was taken out of her base damage for Q/E. Zyra has some of the lowest initial AP ratios in the game for a mage. 50-70% AP low. Most mages are 70-90 with upscales of 190% in Ultimates. The point is, her passive and W are basically placeholder parts of her Q/E.

hrooza dota 1 votes

that did not change my point of zyra W and passive being damage dealing abilitys unabled by her Q/E.

The thigh guy1 votes

Because she counters all this damage flying around with a shield and makes all these ap burst mages worse. So obviously if riot wants to keep the game exciting for the 12 year olds, Morgana has to take a hit.

BobaFlautist1 votes

I don't really have any thoughts about the rest of your post but I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what you meant about Ornn's W's max hp damage countering Morgana's shield. There's nothing about it being max HP damage that makes it counter her shield more than any other damage ability, and I have no idea what would make you think otherwise.

We're you just trying to say that poke can knock off her shield and his w is poke...?

Illabethe1 votes

No..... literally.... his W does enough damage at any point in the game to completely destroy her shield, allowing him to Brittle anyways. He can miss his entire ult and kill Morgana, no holds barred.

BobaFlautist1 votes

I mean this is clearly assuming Morgana consistently stands in the full duration of his w, which she shouldn't, and is stupid enough to keep using e before he Ws, which shouldn't happen more than once, but my point still stands: the fact that it's % hp is completely irrellevant, it's just as good against her e as any other moderately powerful magic damage poke in the game. That's why Morg has never been particularly great against poke mages.

Illabethe1 votes

You do realize the duration of W is substantially lower, and he can generally get it off easy simply by R-ing one direction, forcing Morg to stay in its path?

BobaFlautist1 votes

I'll concede that it's lower duration than I think of it.

It still doesn't have great range and Morg can still hold her E until she doesn't need to worry about being hit by his w, as well as consistently land her Q on any all-in attempt - unless you're telling me that he can kill her before she hits the ground.

Illabethe1 votes

He doesn't have to hit her with R at all (or E if that's what you're implying.

Here's how it works:

Ornn R's directly at Morgana. Morgana sidesteps R. Ornn goes in and Q/W's Morg, forcing her to either E or take the slow from Q. Return R can still miss at this point, or hit. Doesn't matter. If Morgana E'd to mitigate W/Q slow, she no longer has it for Ornn's E. Ornn E's the pillar W's Morgana again Dead Morgana.

Q has extremely little impact on this fight, especially if item 3111

Andrex25001 votes

Vayne Riven Overtuned for several patches.No nerfs Morgana Viable mid for once. Instant nerf.

Guess she doesn t do flashy $LCS$ plays.

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