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On akali and built in healing through damage/applications of damage available to top lane champions

Tychusfindlay918··16 votes·1,372 views

Darius Dodgeable, must interact with enemy laner and hit a specific region with his decimate to gain the heal. Missing % (Strong at low hp and non existent at high hp)

Vladimir undodgeable, inclined to interact with enemy laner with empowered Q, otherwise healing gutted to 35% efficacy when used on a minion. Empowered Q requires charges from previous uses of Q and only lasts for 2 seconds (can be elongated through use of E and W).

Maokai undodgeable (procs on hit), no need for interaction with enemy laner, full heal is available on anything he auto attacks.

Akali undodgeable (procs on hit), no need for interaction with enemy laner, full heal is available on anything she auto attacks.

Camille dodgeable, must interact with enemy laner and hit a specific region with her W to gain the heal. Heals based on damage dealt.

Fiora dodgeable, must interact with enemy laner and hit a specific region with an auto or parry to gain the heal. Heals based on her AD along with a base heal.

Irelia undodgeable (procs on hit), no need for interaction with enemy laner, full heal is available on anything she auto attacks.

Nasus undodgeable (procs on hit), no need for interaction with enemy laner, full heal is available on anything he auto attacks.

Mordekaiser Dodgeable, must interact with enemy laner for effective heal, severely reduced healing is available for use on minions.

Yorick undodgeable (procs on hit), no need for interaction with enemy laner, full heal is available on anything he Qs.

Trundle technically shouldn't be on the list, but most definitely worth mentioning. His healing is 100% bullshit and relies merely on being somewhat near things that die (regardless of whether he damages or kills said things). Were he not on the weak side, people wouldn't turn a blind eye. Thankfully, trundle is a troll pick right now (LUL).

Aatrox undodgeable (procs on hit every 3rd auto), no need for interaction with enemy laner, full heal is available on anything he auto attacks.

Illaoi dodgeable, must interact with enemy laner for heal by hitting a tentacle slam. Missing % (Strong at low hp and non existent at high hp).

Conclusion: the healthiest methods of healing would logically seem to be the ones that mandate or at least incline champions towards interacting with the enemy laner. Champions like akali and maokai prove incredibly frustrating as their sustain has very few drawbacks and no "Weaknesses" in the sense that they don't have to land a skill shot or have to attack an enemy champion to gain access to the full heal. Chogath left out (I got lazy). Nasus is bareable only in the sense that his healing is tied to his damage, and his damage early game is rather pitiful. Post sheen however his sustain methods are just as unhealthy as akali and maokai's.

16 Comments

I am Pacman13 votes

We already know this.

Riot already knows this.

They don't care.

Rootlo4 votes

Maokai has to wait 20 seconds, or get smacked with spells to be able to use his though. Its not Akali levels where she gets it every 4 seconds. And it also procs on towers for her, where Maokai's dosent.

Tychusfindlay9184 votes

{quoted}

Maokai has to wait 20 seconds, or get smacked with spells to be able to use his though. Its not Akali levels where she gets it every 4 seconds. And it also procs on towers for her, where Maokai's dosent.

Omission noted, he can lower the cooldown through the use of his own spells as well.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Not to be "That guy", but Akali's only gonna heal every 6-8 seconds in lane. It won't reach 4 seconds in laning phase. Barring Gunblade, of course, but we're ignoring that, because theoretically anyone can buy it (and its heal isn't gonna be that much that early on).

Teridax683 votes

Looking through this list, I think it's apparent that there's a lot of progress to still be had with sustain on champions. While more gameplay-laden heals aren't exempt from their own issues (Illaoi's heal in particular tends to make her even more binary relative to the situations she's in), their problems usually boil down to balance rather than fundamental design. This also goes to show that Akali isn't the only one with "free" healing, as a great deal many other champions also get sustain that acts as extra health regen in lane, with all of the associated gameplay issues that healing generates.

Because healing operates by negating damage, I agree with the OP that any source of healing needs to entail a legitimate cost or risk, and should encourage interaction rather than enforce passivity. Because of this, I think a baseline rule that should be applied to healing is that it should not trigger on minions. Champions are obviously fine, assuming the amount of interaction is proportionate to the amount of healing received, and large monsters are also usually fine on most (but not all) champions, but whenever healing gets to be applied indiscriminately on anything smaller, it tends to feel cheap and unfair as a result. Being forced out of lane purely because the enemy champion got to out-sustain you on just minions is a shitty feeling, and generally wars of attrition and noodle fights are situations Riot has tried very hard to move past.

I also think that, to some extent, the excessive reliance of many top laners on reliable self-healing is a major reason why many of them can't duo lane: in top lane, where your opponent is usually (hopefully) melee, healing from minions typically involves little risk, and as a result champions with self-healing tend to have their staying power in lane balanced around it. When it comes to laning bot, however, where suddenly you end up against at least one ranged opponent capable of zoning you from the creep wave, those champions suffer tremendously as a result, because they become incapable of sustaining themselves without losing even more health to harass in the process. This is also why ranged top laners tend to feel bad to play against, because their ability to deal damage without approaching their target counters even the cheapest of minion-based sustain. It's a bit like an arms race, where champions who lack free self-sustain suffer against those who have it (especially if they're manaless too), and where both suffer even more against champions who have access to cheap poke in lane. Making self-sustain more conditional, and thereby potentially more apt at sustaining melee champions in proper PvP combat, would break at least one level of that arms race, and thereby potentially make top lane a much more interactive (and overall just more active) place.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

A few points I'd like to make:

Akali's healing was intended for midlane. There, it's necessary, because it's the only way for her to survive in mid. Although I'm thinking Akali might be a bit healthier toplane, if she was slightly balanced for it.

I believe Aatrox's healing is based on missing health.

Mordekaiser's W heal isn't truly dodgeable. It's more technically dodgeable. But his W is a lot like a Lux E in terms of dodgeability. I can just wait until you get near a minion, and quickly double-tap it on said minion for a heal. Unless I'm forgetting how it works, that is.

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

{quoted}

A few points I'd like to make:

Akali's healing was intended for midlane. There, it's necessary, because it's the only way for her to survive in mid. Although I'm thinking Akali might be a bit healthier toplane, if she was slightly balanced for it.

I believe Aatrox's healing is based on missing health.

Mordekaiser's W heal isn't truly dodgeable. It's more technically dodgeable. But his W is a lot like a Lux E in terms of dodgeability. I can just wait until you get near a minion, and quickly double-tap it on said minion for a heal. Unless I'm forgetting how it works, that is.

you could argue vlad's healing was intended for mid lane as well, and yet it manages to maintain a healthier design regardless of where he is.

youre right on aatrox, i forgot as that was a recent change.

mordekaiser's w heal truly IS dodgeable, do not be biased.

Iceember2 votes

But Vlad is ranged. He can interact with his lane opponent to gain his sustain. That 25-30 hp Akali is gaining every 6-9s is the only thing keeping her viable as a midlaner. If this was before the changes in 6.22 I'd agree that removing her sustain would be okay. Right now it isn't.

no to toxic2 votes

Yorick heals 30 health from minions in late game ** heh nothing personal kid**

Dead flag blues1 votes

The thing is, Fiora is a skirmisher, she's supposed to be allowed to sustain during fight and able to proc her ult. Illaoi is a juggernaut, she has no mobility and without sustain and harass, she'd die in a few seconds without being able to do anything, same for Darius. Akali is an assassin with point and click abilities, with an insane mobility and a free blink on her W.

Iceember1 votes

Are we talking with Gunblade or without? Because Gunblade is a whole different story. Fizz can have great sustain with Gunblade and Ravenous Hunter...

Akalis passive gives between 20 -120 HP on a single auto based on level with a small AP scaling and a somewhat decent bonus AD scaling (altho Gunblade is your only bonus AD typically so 20 is gained with that..)

Although she's mobile Akali has the lowest burst in a single rotation when compared to other assassins. Her sustain is really the only thing keeping her viable as a midlaner... Shroud blink, while useful, also means I can't throw my shroud to use as a zoning tool, or for vision, or really any of the nice utilities I once had. Now I can use it to jump small walls and dodge a skilshot/displacement here or there. The lockput on shroud blink also means i cant use it to extend my R or flash ranges either. And in the .5s it takes to throw a q my opponent has the opportunity to get out of range. All in all Akali players have alot of hoops to jump through just to play as a midlaner, where you could have just as much success with Katarina or Zed if you are willing to learn their mechanics.

A1laku1 votes

Except Akali needs that heal in the mid lane where she gets poked into oblivion by all the mages.

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

{quoted}

Except Akali needs that heal in the mid lane where she gets poked into oblivion by all the mages.

Doesnt matter, she is for all purposes now a top laner.

http://www.op.gg/champion/akali/statistics/top

Over 3/4 of her games are top lane

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Your conclusion is sound though I'll toss some thoughts in; nasus's healing is unavoidable sure but melee range only, chogath's healing only kicks in when he kills something which is difficult when being poked.

However you overlooked the biggest contenders to damage amplifiers and sustain, marksmen. Lifesteal is boosted by critical hits, and is tripled in teamfights with a hurricane; the only auto-attacks that are avoidable are kalista's but only if she looses vision of you, or if you have intangibility in your kit. Mage's lost the will of the ancients because 'burst healing is unhealthy and frustrating' to paraphrase riot on that change; only they turned around and added death's dance, the physical counterpart, that also includes anti-burst ontop of this. Never mind the fact mages were gated by cooldowns and mana, meanwhile marksmen can auto-attack more frequently for free at comparable range.

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVKTyLHz,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-02-06T00:42:50.070+0000)

Your conclusion is sound though I'll toss some thoughts in; nasus's healing is unavoidable sure but melee range only, chogath's healing only kicks in when he kills something which is difficult when being poked.

However you overlooked the biggest contenders to this damage amplifiers and sustain, marksmen. Lifesteal is boosted by critical hits, and is tripled in teamfights with a hurricane; the only auto-attacks that are avoidable are kalista's but only if she looses vision of you, or if you have intangibility in your kit. Mage's lost the will of the ancients because 'burst healing is unhealthy and frustrating' to paraphrase riot on that change; only they turned around and added death's dance, the physical counterpart, that also includes anti-burst ontop of this. Never mind the fact mages were gated by cooldowns and mana, meanwhile marksmen can auto-attack more frequently for free at comparable range.

I didn't overlook marksman because there isn't a single marksman with built in sustain in their kit, and with the exception of quinn who is a psuedo marksman, no marksman goes top lane.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Kindred does with her ultimate, being a stationary kayle zone followed up with a heal. As far as I'm concerned a marksmen is such by three things; noticeably ranged auto-attacks, primarily physical damage, and squishy. Quinn, vayne, and kindred play like assassins but still function like marksmen; ezreal, corki, and lucian play like mages but still function like marksmen. Azir, gnar, and urgot I wouldn't consider either of these three to be a marksman, they could be played like marksmen but it'd be more of struggle than anything because their kits aren't designed for it; azir would run out of mana, gnar is inadvertently a bruiser thanks to his Jekyll & Hyde mechanic, and urgot is practically melee range.

You did forget something recent however; the rune reworked masteries. Precision has; fleet footwork giving a periodic heal, triumph giving you health back for killing, and finally bloodline which is a stacking lifesteal for every kill and assist you get. Domination has; taste of blood as another periodic heal, and ravenous hunter giving a stacking spellvamp on physical abilities from kills you get. Any marksman can get sustain for free without ever building for it, sure other classes can to, but since most of these rely on auto-attacks or physical damage, they benefit the most by far.

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