Yi is worthless when he is behind

Subject 5·Mar 2, 2016·10 votes·1,790 views

He proceeds to build Sated, rageblade and then full tank when he is 0/3/6 and ends the game with 9/6/7

I get it, he does damage. But what the fuck. Is with the Sated devour. And melee carries.

4 Bans for Sated, 2 bans for like, you know, real bans.

"Just cc him!" Yeah, we did. But guess what he built tank and still did double the amount of damage that Lucian ever did, and when we did focus him we got slapped by Garen who also does significant damage. Then we have to worry about Lux, Why in the fuck is Yi building tank + 2 hp items, and somehow cuts through me like a hot knife through butter?

http://puu.sh/nsc66/e59e4d10e0.jpg

Level 15 and this dude killed me in under 3 seconds with Thornmail, Ninja Tabi and a wardens mail.

"CC The Yi" Doesn't work when his team is killing us and he builds tank but is still able to do more damage than his ADC.

37 Comments

Critmaster GarenMar 2, 20167 votes

its fervor.

the mastery is the real reason why tanky on hit builds are so strong this season. i mean its a 112 physical on hit damage at lvl 18.

MunchCrunchLunchMar 2, 20161 votes

which means twice as much as that. with devoure every 2nd hit. but honestly. frevor makes it worse. its just every auto attack mele carry now. not just yi.

Sire HippingtonMar 2, 20161 votes

what has melee to do with that? Ferovor is the main reason kogmaw endedt up that insane with the small powershift last patch. It literally gives more on-hit damage than sated+guinsoo's(save for the ohantom hit ofc), and it's not that hard to stack up.

MunchCrunchLunchMar 3, 20161 votes

I mean. guinsoo is the bigger problem here.

Sir YamazukiMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-02T17:10:14.500+0000)

its fervor.

the mastery is the real reason why tanky on hit builds are so strong this season. i mean its a 112 physical on hit damage at lvl 18.

Bruiser Yi was already effective in the previous season and was more successful than glass Yi.

Critmaster GarenMar 2, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-03-02T17:58:43.276+0000)

Bruiser Yi was already effective in the previous season and was more successful than glass Yi.

yes, he was effective. but you can see how fervor stacked on top of it all really buffed the shit out of that build. its a crapload of extra damage without having to build additional offensive items.

SohleksMar 3, 20161 votes

Fervors OP I agree.

Fervor scales way beyond other mastery potential. Especially on those high hit rate builds.

The gating of the damage was toned down to be more accessible so more champions could use it, but the superbly high potential of the mastery leaves it broken for the best users.

It is good though that the mastery is now attractive to most adcs and more casual on-hit builds like Nashor's Fizz. It just gets oughta line on sated devourer users.

Lowering the maximum output potential a little bit (60 sumthing per hit at level 9 is... quite a bonus!) could help soften the worst cases without making the average user give it up.

Slamurai JackMar 2, 20163 votes

0/3/6 really isn't behind on a farming jungler. Those 6 assists means he was able to help his team and get some extra gold for himself as well.

SP DodgecityMar 2, 20162 votes

Its because Yi's E gives him true damage, his items give him AOE damage, magic damage, huge attack speed, double and triple hitting with one single hit, with attack damage. So With all that power right there, he'll beat anyone... so no need to really build that much more damage based items, he does so much with just BORK, Devourer, and rageblade, that he can build tank and out damage anyone.. which is super broken haha

Critmaster GarenMar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Its because Yi's E gives him true damage, his items give him AOE damage, magic damage, huge attack speed, double and triple hitting with one single hit, with attack damage. So With all that power right there, he'll beat anyone... so no need to really build that much more damage based items, he does so much with just BORK, Devourer, and rageblade, that he can build tank and out damage anyone.. which is super broken haha

but his true damage actually scales with ad, even though it has a halfway decent base value.

bruiser yi was viable before season 6, but not problematic since he traded in damage for reliability. the main change that buffed his tanky on hit build are the addition of fervor as a LOT of item independent on hit damage that synergizes with his passive and devourer, and the rageblade changes.

though even rageblade is not much of an issue in that regard, since it is a pure offensive item that he has to dedicate an item slot for. and the on hit damage on the item scales with ad/ap.

HongChongDongMar 2, 20161 votes

Some things aren't meant to be countered. In high elo he's still more of a 50/50 sort of deal so unless the high elo players decide that he's become too strong then the only hope you have is by waiting for a work around to be discovered or to perma ban him in your games.

Subject 5Mar 2, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Some things aren't meant to be countered. In high elo he's still more of a 50/50 sort of deal so unless the high elo players decide that he's become too strong then the only hope you have is by waiting for a work around to be discovered or to perma ban him in your games.

Literally I need to perma ban either him or Ez and when I don't pick either one, one of them gets into the game. We don't have enough bans to make up for the shitty balancing team -_-"

HongChongDongMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T16:12:14.992+0000)

Literally I need to perma ban either him or Ez and when I don't pick either one, one of them gets into the game. We don't have enough bans to make up for the shitty balancing team -_-"

I keep explaining these things to people but things are balanced in the game, it's just mainly about perspective.

Lower elo people don't have knowledge and experience to properly fight against certain champions so they call it broken. This is why all balancing decisions are based off of high elo play because they're the only ones who'll truly know if something is unbalanced or not.

Subject 5Mar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I keep explaining these things to people but things are balanced in the game, it's just mainly about perspective.

Lower elo people don't have knowledge and experience to properly fight against certain champions so they call it broken. This is why all balancing decisions are based off of high elo play because they're the only ones who'll truly know if something is unbalanced or not.

The realistic approach of dealing with Yi is to CC him, that doesn't work when he is 5-6 hitting my team with 4 tank items at 4500 HP and running at the speed of sound. We can't focus him AND the other carries in the game. He was like 0/3 he shouldn't just get sated at 20 minutes and start creaming people because he farmed the entire game and didn't even help his team. Not like you can build against him because you know, true damage.

HongChongDongMar 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T16:19:14.059+0000)

The realistic approach of dealing with Yi is to CC him, that doesn't work when he is 5-6 hitting my team with 4 tank items at 4500 HP and running at the speed of sound. We can't focus him AND the other carries in the game. He was like 0/3 he shouldn't just get sated at 20 minutes and start creaming people because he farmed the entire game and didn't even help his team. Not like you can build against him because you know, true damage.

There are more ways to fight champions like this than brute force.

Not exactly a popular tactic in lower elo's where experienced junglers don't exist but high elo junglers will tend to counter pick with champions made to make the Yi's jungling a live hell through constant invading, constantly taking camps, and counter ganking him 24/7.

Yi's goal is to farm so if you let him farm instead of stopping him then you can only blame yourself.

Subject 5Mar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There are more ways to fight champions like this than brute force.

Not exactly a popular tactic in lower elo's where experienced junglers don't exist but high elo junglers will tend to counter pick with champions made to make the Yi's jungling a live hell through constant invading, constantly taking camps, and counter ganking him 24/7.

Yi's goal is to farm so if you let him farm instead of stopping him then you can only blame yourself.

We killed him 3 times while he was farming, he was last pick. So all of those don't seem to suggest anything credible atm.

HongChongDongMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T16:28:46.373+0000)

We killed him 3 times while he was farming, he was last pick. So all of those don't seem to suggest anything credible atm.

It's the go to strategy that allows high elo players to counter him so I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Perhaps go online and start reading up on strategies from guides or possibly even go look at a few jungle mains streaming.

Subject 5Mar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's the go to strategy that allows high elo players to counter him so I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Perhaps go online and start reading up on strategies from guides or possibly even go look at a few jungle mains streaming.

Well if a "High elo player" doesn't have an answer other than that I don't know what to tell you.

HongChongDongMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-02T16:37:44.658+0000)

Well if a "High elo player" doesn't have an answer other than that I don't know what to tell you.

There's nothing saying that they don't have an answer but I'm not personally that high up so if you want in depth tips you'll have to go looking for them on your own. I can only offer so much advice from my limited experience.

Sire HippingtonMar 2, 20162 votes

it's not 50/50 because yi isnn't shitty designed and horribly borken right now, it's 50/50 because the concept of devourer blows at higher elos since earlygame junglers like lee or nida will totally own the game way befor you ever get sated. As soon as yi gets online, he also is a problem in high elos, it's just that the game will be nearly over already befor that happens vs strong early junglers.

He's a horrible champ that either does nothing at all for his team or prettymuch wins all on his own, and depending on the elo, one of the two is more likely, but both are horrible for the game. Getting srewed the first 20 min and probably loosing of that because u basically play 4vs5 is horrible, and getting sloughtered 5vs1 past 30 min just because you didn't end the game fast enough feels horrible aswell, while his teammates mostly feel like bystanders rather than actively makeing a comeback.

HongChongDongMar 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AR1ewRsF,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-03-02T23:07:26.971+0000)

it's not 50/50 because yi isnn't shitty designed and horribly borken right now, it's 50/50 because the concept of devourer blows at higher elos since earlygame junglers like lee or nida will totally own the game way befor you ever get sated. As soon as yi gets onlyine, he also is a problem in high elos, it's just that the game will be nearly over already befor that happens vs strong early junglers.

Exactly as I suggested which the OP denied as a possibility.

DrehirthMar 3, 20161 votes

You can reliably beat him by denying him rift herald and dragon, and out pressuring him on the map... I do it all the time when I'm jungle and enemy team always rages at their Yi. When I'm ADC I can do fuck all though sadly I really hate this champion

Unskilled BronzeMar 2, 20161 votes

Need nerf rageblade. Again.

AttackOnTeemosMar 2, 20163 votes

You can have a score 20/0 but if you can't take towers or inhibs you wasting your time.

SasogwaMar 2, 20161 votes

This set of runes sucks. 0 mr and 0 attackspeed. I run armor/lvl all the time but its only on yellows that it's worth and that makes 27 at lvl 18.

Ps : killing him isn't enough, get freaking objectives, end the goddamn game. A Yi as behind as he is shouldn't have devourer + rageblade until approximately 20 minutes, he's still not tanky at that moment and you should already have nearly gotten an inhibitor.

Subject 5Mar 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This set of runes sucks. 0 mr and 0 attackspeed. I run armor/lvl all the time but its only on yellows that it's worth and that makes 27 at lvl 18.

Ps : killing him isn't enough, get freaking objectives, end the goddamn game. A Yi as behind as he is shouldn't have devourer + rageblade until approximately 20 minutes, he's still not tanky at that moment and you should already have nearly gotten an inhibitor.

It is called AM for a reason, it is only for armor. It served me well and always has served me well. He did have rageblade + Sated, he is Yi. All you need to do is grab camps, a dragon and he got 2 purple dinosaurs for Garen while instead we got objective towers and kills. So we did do what you said but we couldn't end because of tank Yi doing a billion damage.

MEMEME670Mar 2, 20161 votes

Wait a second. You let a behind Yi get a dragon and two Rift Herald's?

You weren't getting objectives. You weren't pushing your advantage nearly as hard as you should have been in order to actually punish him, and that's why you lost.

Not because yi is overpowered, because he isn't.

KanzermanMar 2, 20161 votes

Pretty much this, if you let Yi get a drake and two Heralds, you pretty much gave him a free Sated Devourer, at 5 stacks per monster and 2 extra/each if he took the Scuttlers too. Towers are not the only objectives. Ward up, fight for drakes, and if you're a laner and are winning, ganks other lanes too. Get too fed and you have room to maneauver. But you actually gave YI room to maneauver with so many juicy objectives, and he capitalized.

I hate Yi because with just two items he can make up for 15 minutes of shitty play (like Yasuo can), but if you don't give any breathing room you can just end before he can get the ball rolling again.

WadeWilson1337Mar 2, 20161 votes

Yi is a late game scaling champion, like Vayne. Devourer is a late game scaling item that takes alot of risk to buy as it takes time to stack assuming you even have control of the jungle. Late game scaling stat and itemwise...hm...its almost as if they are supposed to do good early game to compensate for subpar early game?

UF DanMar 4, 20161 votes

You think devourer is a late game item? This is Season 6. Sated is achieved before 15 minutes and games end at 20 mins. Everyone has full build by 30 minutes (if the game is still going) because of the Gold Generators Turrets are now.

Either you got the wrong definition of what late game is, or your definition of late game is 20 mins, which would be correct for the current balance of League.

WadeWilson1337Mar 4, 20161 votes

Uhm, the only champion i have ever seen get Devourer at 15 minutes is Shyvana, and typically its really more like 16 minutes. The more REALISTIC time for most champions to get sated is 20 minutes if their team is doing well. If a devourer champion is enabled to get 30 stacks by the 15-18 minute mark, it means your team and jungler was already behind. But instead of saying, "Oh they have more map pressure and are securing objectives and basically 4v5ing while their jungler powerfarms", everyone overeacts and says "WTF OP?!?!?!" without realizing the risks and weaknesses of getting sated. Really? Full build at 30 minutes? Maybe thats the case for laners, but as i only play jungle and support, i can be powerfarming the entire game (most cs in entire game as the jungler), be 13/2/6 and the fastest i hit full build was 34 minutes, so yet another exaggeration you have made.

TLDR; Devourer has drawbacks, and quite frankly from what you said you seem tilted. I checked your match history and saw you play alot of Lee Sin, which might explain your hatred of these champions. You have to invade, counterjungle, and constantly gank to keep the early pressure up on him. If you want to keep control against a devourer jungler, you basically have to force a forfeit on Lee Sin, because around the 20-25 minute; where most of the time the enemy would be sated, is when you fall off. And if you cant close the game by the 30 minute mark, you will be as useless as the devourer jungler was in the first 5 minutes. Long story short, drop Lee Sin, pick up Nidalee/Elise, or dont adapt and continue to overestimate the meta.

DealthMar 2, 20161 votes

You think that's bad.. Wait until you see a Yi buy wits end instead of rageblade.. now THAT is some damage with a ton defense..

PeachsPropertyMar 2, 20161 votes

reworked Yi = Irelia version 2.0.

better gap closer(its aoe even!) better healing (also adds defensive stats!) better true damage(it scales!) That Steroid R

People hated on Irelia back in the day for her true damage and healing.

Only Play DariusMar 2, 20161 votes

His previous itemization got hit hard. BOTRK is weaker, Hydra's lifesteal component got slashed, and he lost Last Whisper. A lot of the physical damage he used to get from his old builds got diffused into Giant Slayer/LDR which doesn't work well on him.

On top of this ADC's are doing much more damage than before. Don't forget that limited wards, free home guards, and extended death timers make it much harder for him to split push now, so he is forced to teamfight.

The problem is the current meta where glass melee simply doesn't work anymore .

Also 0/3 isn't too bad of a score for a champion with such a weak early game, and 6 assists isn't too shabby either considering how bad his early ganks are

InHaruhiWeTrustMar 3, 20161 votes

i had a yi that was one of the most brain dead players i've ever played against. i was akali mid and winning my lane vs a lux pretty easily. the yi just runs straight at me lvl 4 and gives me a double kill, and i proceed to get even more fed. the entire game he just right clicked on EVERYONE he saw. literally never tried to dodge skill shots or anything. at around 16-18 min or so i was roaming bot i was 10/0 at the time and i ran into yi who was 0/8 and guess what he did? he ran straight at me like he had all freaking game, but this time he absolutely destroyed me. needless to say we ended up losing the game with master yi goin 18/10 still doing nothing but running straight at people.

Captain AishiMar 3, 20161 votes

they need to realize sated devourer is a completely broken item, and remove it from the game, then they can look at champions and see how to balance them properly... but as long as you have an item that once completed gives you a bunch of AS, 90 onhit damage on top of boosting all other on-hit damage sources by 50%... game won't be balanced