soft inting is seriously destroying the health of the game for high elo

Tychusfindlay918··69 votes·18,384 views

And it's an issue unique to high elo, because many times lower elo folks make dumb mistakes because they don't know better.

But soft inting is THE most toxic fucking thing about high elo. It's more toxic than flaming, and it's even more toxic than literally running it down mid. When someone runs it down mid, at least that's an easy identification for griefing.

But anyone in higher elo understands, and experiences, probably once every 3 games MINIMUM, that one fucker who for whatever reason happens to die early or something, and the first thing they say is "ff15" or "gg next" or whatever the fuck it is. And if ANYONE tries to tell him to hang in there or that the game is winnable, he'll say anything along the lines of either "please don't waste time" or "nah" or the subtle "ok."

And what happens after that moment? An ally has been slain, an ally has been slain.

"Hey man, why don't you play safer and stay closer to your turret instead of shoving out so far since you're behind?" - rational high elo player

"Nah he's too far ahead, I can't do anything, sorry man, but I need the cs" - soft inter

Now you're probably thinking, 'that's not too unreasonable.'

Well here's the fucking catch, he's refusing to try and freeze, he's blatantly overshoving, he is refusing to ward anything because he doesn't give a shit and he needs an excuse for when he gets ganked, and he clearly doesn't care to listen to his teammates who are trying to help him.

It's 15 minutes, and IMMEDIATELY the vote comes out by yours fucking truly. The rational people vote no, because there is reason to believe that the game can rebound since other lanes are doing fine if not potentially succeeding.

vote fails.

"wow" / "you people are wasting time" / "it's over" / what-fucking-ever

Soft inter just washes, rinses, and repeats. Purposefully shove, intentionally fight the opponent who has 3000 gold over him and "try" to beat that opponent even though he KNOWS for a fact he's going to lose simply from the exp and gold difference, never group with the team even after lane phase is clearly over and the enemy is knocking on an inhib turret or something.

etc. etc.

It's a fucking cancer, it is THE fucking cancer of high elo.


Riot could potentially try out something like what CSGO has where the community polices itself (its called overwatch or something, basically you're given footage of the game, and after watching it, you and several other judges anonymously and without knowing who voted what, vote on the fate of the player whose stream you were given).

Ways to eliminate bias and ensure the best judges which CSGO already has in place and which it might not (haven't played it in a while):

  1. When given the footage of the game, the names of all players are censored.

  2. Anyone who was in the game of interest is disqualified from judging it.

  3. Judges must be AT LEAST diamond 5, no one in a lower elo is allowed to judge a game (higher elo players better understand the game and what soft inters do)

  4. the footage must be AT LEAST 3 days old. This is a "Streamer" rule so to speak. As many high elo players stream, by having the footage age before being viewed, there is a MUCH less likely chance of people recognizing the game despite all the other measures being taken to avoid such a scenario. As soft inting is the hardest thing to spot, those who report may have to wait for up to 3-5 days before being given the satisfactory message about action being taken from their report, and all measures must be taken to ensure objectivity of the judges. But hey, late is better than never.

  5. For being a judge, you are given honor and a set amount of Blue Essence (or a key fragment or something).

  6. Judges must have the option to recuse themselves at any point, and a player will have the option, upon reaching AT LEAST diamond 5, of excusing themselves from even being selected as a potential judge (so if they don't want to be a part of the system at all then they don't have to be).

  7. Judges should be from the region of interest that the defendant is operating in, as different regions may have different playstyles.

  8. There should be NO LESS than 3 random judges viewing the exact same footage.

  9. NO ONE BELOW THE HONOR LEVEL OF 2 MAY ACT AS A JUDGE.

If you ask me, the offenses should be treated in the following manner:

The first offense is only a 24 hour ban (you never know if things go wrong and someone is wrongly accused). The second offense WITHIN A MONTH is a 3 day ban. The third offense WITHIN A MONTH OF THE SECOND OFFENSE is a week ban. the FOURTH offense WITHIN A MONTH OF THE THIRD OFFENSE is an indefinite ban.

While that may seem very lenient for what is essentially griefing, it would be important to recognize that something such as soft inting can still be potentially hard to recognize. Soft inters tend to repeat their behavior with pride. Someone accidentally accused even up to two times wouldn't suffer so severely. But chronic soft inters who get indicted more than two times within such a time period would suffer accordingly and potentially meet a rightful indefinite ban.

Just food for thought. Feel free to discuss.

102 Comments

Slythrin Umbreon7 votes

And now that you've posted this on boards, I can probably expect it in my Low Elo games.

You Monster. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Automated Riven30 votes

Already happens. What this guy is describing is Everytime someone loses lane.

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQvwHUbO,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-17T05:27:35.422+0000)

Already happens. What this guy is describing is Everytime someone loses lane.

Bullshit, what I'm describing is unique to high elo, not merely losing lanes.

DrCyanide5 votes

What's unique to high elo is doing it to that scale. Low elo has the exact same attitude issue, the difference between them trying to win and them "trying to win" is just lower.

TheSingularity6 votes

Not really man.

Most games I lose, same pattern. They lose lane and just sit in lane farming, they don't ward, communicate, mia or roam. They just farm, shove, die, repeat. Only they tend to stay quiet, while spamming FF when ever it comes up.

Nothing in a chat log to warrant review because they never speak. And they don't die frequently enough for riot to call it inting.

TempName548463 votes

the difference is that in low elo they are just bad at the game while in high elo they are inting.

TheSingularity4 votes

And you know this because? You're telling me... you can read the minds of 95% of the player base simultaneously and discern whether they're just having a bad game, or are dying over and over because they simply couldn't give 2 shits and want the game to end?

I'm telling you it happens because I did it once. And for every one person that does it, there are hundreds if not thousands more depending on the total population size. Losing streak, was in a horrid mindset and just wanted a game to end so I could go play something else. Was only 0/2 or something. But the team as a whole was like 3/17. So I went bot, pushed and farmed with donger. Got caught, died, rinsed and repeated. it wasn't a mistake at the time. It wasn't "oops let's just try that again". It was "I'm staying here until we lose, if you're going to drag out a lost game then good luck with it, I'll be down here" Forced my team to 4v5, didn't oppose barrons and the game ended way faster than if I was helping.

Do I regret? yes, I was a complete ass hat and who knows, the enemy team possibly could've thrown. It's low elo after all. But as I said above. If me, a pathetic low elo scrub can do it with intent. Every single one of us is. High elo isn't special in regard to behavior so stop acting like this issue is isolated to you. I guarantee you it's not

Automated Riven12 votes

Bullshit, it happenes everytime someone doesnt know how to actually conserve a lane. Shove up over and over again and die. cant ward because top bought a pink and jungle pinked, disregaurd the lack of info and die. ffs the last time I was top I was completly wrecking a kled. Up like 5 kills and had solo killed him several times. He randomly just all ins me by his krugs. After I killed him I was like "seriously why are you still fighting me?"

KlydeFrog6 votes

Its called griefing. And high elo players get butt hurt easy when another lane dies 2 times or they themselves die 1 time. And the ff @ 15 comes out

SugeMinPikk2 votes

Except low elo players who do it think they're right; high elo players who do it know they're wrong but want to go next.

Automated Riven1 votes

No, they dont. even in low elo they know that pushing up without wards is a bad descision. IT isnt inting (or soft inting or whatever) its playing poorly. low elo players know that fighting someone who is 3 kills up on them is a bad idea. it still isnt soft inting. Its making stupid decisions cause your tilted.

Roger Teh Alien3 votes

But high elo players are supposed to know better. Like if someone gets fed on your team in high elo (this applies to low elo too, but high elo players are usually more capable of carrying) you generally play safe and play around that fed person. People in high elo should also know that if they nearly die and have to use summoner 4 summoner 7 summoner 21 etc to escape a 1v1 they're most likely not going to win their lane or win until they're farmed up so they should be playing safe so they don't int.

Automated Riven7 votes

I agree. Permaban hashinshin.

I'm kidding I don't agree at all. (Sept the hashinshin part because he legit stops trying and flames) but you cannot ban people for playing poorly based on percieved malicious intent. Picking bad fights and making bad desisions happens across all elos and is not, and nor should it be, punishable. Everyone has bad games and at the end of the day it's just that, a game. So as long as the person tries and does not run it down mid, or top. Then they should not be banned. There is no way to prove it and a jury a piers is not only unrealistic considering there is gonna 1 0-3 player every game who get reported for 'soft inting' every damn game. Because that's what happens in a snowball meta.

Tbh I think your imagining things and are simply a victim of confirmation bias. (anything you see in your games is just gonna convince you that 'soft inting' is actually what's happening) when really people are just having bad games and are unable to buy wards, and best of all you get to blame everyone else for the games you don't win and the elo you don't achieve.

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQvwHUbO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-17T05:27:05.177+0000)

I agree. Permaban hashinshin.

I'm kidding I don't agree at all. (Sept the hashinshin part because he legit stops trying and flames) but you cannot ban people for playing poorly based on percieved malicious intent. Picking bad fights and making bad desisions happens across all elos and is not, and nor should it be, punishable. Everyone has bad games and at the end of the day it's just that, a game. So as long as the person tries and does not run it down mid, or top. Then they should not be banned. There is no way to prove it and a jury a piers is not only unrealistic considering there is gonna 1 0-3 player every game who get reported for 'soft inting' every damn game. Because that's what happens in a snowball meta.

Tbh I think your imagining things and are simply a victim of confirmation bias. (anything you see in your games is just gonna convince you that 'soft inting' is actually what's happening) when really people are just having bad games and are unable to buy wards, and best of all you get to blame everyone else for the games you don't win and the elo you don't achieve.

Unable to buy yellow trinket? Debatable.

Aptest6 votes

food for thought:

how do you differentiate playing bad from what you call "soft inting" ?

Tychusfindlay91824 votes

{quoted}

food for thought:

how do you differentiate playing bad from what you call "soft inting" ?

A very legitimate question, and the line can certainly be thin at times.

Soft inting is almost always accompanied with passive aggressive tones. Chat logs should be viewable by judges with the names censored (the defendant would be titled defendant, and everyone else would be titled merely witness. The word victim would be avoided to prevent potential sympathetic bias).

Otherwise, the best mechanism for fighting it is having judges who are also high elo review the game with the measures I listed above in place to best ensure objectivity.

People of a similarly high elo will understand what the average person should know, and will easily recognize when someone is being a douche bag and purposefully doing things such as trying to force duels with their lane opponent who they already died to 2-3 times or something like that.

Perfect system? No, nothing ever is when it comes to human behavior, but I reckon it'd be better than the current situation.

Aptest7 votes

{quoted}

A very legitimate question, and the line can certainly be thin at times.

Soft inting is almost always accompanied with passive aggressive tones. Chat logs should be viewable by judges with the names censored (the defendant would be titled defendant, and everyone else would be titled merely witness. The word victim would be avoided to prevent potential sympathetic bias).

Otherwise, the best mechanism for fighting it is having judges who are also high elo review the game with the measures I listed above in place to best ensure objectivity.

People of a similarly high elo will understand what the average person should know, and will easily recognize when someone is being a douche bag and purposefully doing things such as trying to force duels with their lane opponent who they already died to 2-3 times or something like that.

Perfect system? No, nothing ever is when it comes to human behavior, but I reckon it'd be better than the current situation.

When someone dies to a lane opponent 2-3 times, and then gets tilted and plays really bad. including forcing duels.

The "that person should know" idea can not apply. Because "he is playing bad, so actually he doesn't know" explains it perfectly.

In conclusion: does "soft inting" exist outside of your imagination?

wildfox995 votes

In conclusion: does "soft inting" exist outside of your imagination?

it does,at least in high elo

a diamond+ player knows that if he try to 1 vs 1 a fed enemy when behind he will die it doesn't matter what he does,he knows that if he doesn't freeze a lane (and everyone knows how to do it at this elo) his fed enemy will kill him and eventually enemy jungler will gank

so if he start to forcing duels,to shove his lane with an enemy laner and/or without vision and stuff like he's inting,that it's because he already knows what will happen and he's doing it on purpose (again while in low elo those are common mistakes there is no way a diamond+ player doesn't know that this will end up in him getting killed)

refusing to help your teammates or refusing to apply any type of pressure and impacting the game are the only things that a diamond+ player could do because he's tilted

Aptest3 votes

{quoted}

it does,at least in high elo

a diamond+ player knows that if he try to 1 vs 1 a fed enemy when behind he will die it doesn't matter what he does,he knows that if he doesn't freeze a lane (and everyone knows how to do it at this elo) his fed enemy will kill him and eventually enemy jungler will gank

so if he start to forcing duels,to shove his lane with an enemy laner and/or without vision he's inting and stuff like that it's because he already knows what will happen and he's doing it on purpose (again while in low elo those are common mistakes there is no way a diamond+ player doesn't know that this will end up in him getting killed)

refusing to help your teammates or refusing to apply any type of pressure and impacting the game are the only things that a diamond+ player could do because he's tilted

Ok, here is the counter argument: A diamond player, if he is having a bad day and is tilted or he's drunk or stoned or any other reason, loses his skill to the extent that he's low silver. Therefore, he does not know. He is a poor player at this point, not a diamond player.

wildfox994 votes

a tilted diamond should play like a low plat,in any case i'm not talking about the skills in game or about decision making but simply doing something that you already know it will end up with you getting killed

putting it in a silver-perspective how would you call someone that goes in enemy base in front of their nexus (enemies have all towers up) and starts to farm minion here? would you say it's just a bad game and he was legit trying to farm?

or what if someone 0/5 tries to dive alone his full HP 5/0 enemy ignoring the minion waves running down his tower? would you say he's just tilted and he's trying to 1vs1 his enemy?

in proportion it's the same thing

i mean,as nervous as you can be,as bad your day could be i guess if i ask you what happens if you jump from a window from the seventh floor you know the answer,right? it's kinda the same with soft inters,they know what happens when "they jump from this window" but they do it anyway

Jerry SeinfeId3 votes

putting it in a silver-perspective how would you call someone that goes in enemy base in front of their nexus (enemies have all towers up) and starts to farm minion here?

i'd call that a silver proxy singed.

Ph03n1xb1rd1 votes

{quoted}

When someone dies to a lane opponent 2-3 times, and then gets tilted and plays really bad. including forcing duels.

The "that person should know" idea can not apply. Because "he is playing bad, so actually he doesn't know" explains it perfectly.

In conclusion: does "soft inting" exist outside of your imagination?

And this is exactly why we would not let Silver 4 people be the judges.

Being tilted and forcing duels when you are faar behind might happen in lower ELO, if you are on higher elo, and have a minimal understanding of the game, you do NOT do this. Period. If you do this (while understanding how the game works), then you are soft inting.

Aptest1 votes

{quoted}

And this is exactly why we would not let Silver 4 people be the judges.

Being tilted and forcing duels when you are faar behind might happen in lower ELO, if you are on higher elo, and have a minimal understanding of the game, you do NOT do this. Period. If you do this (while understanding how the game works), then you are soft inting.

You lack understanding of how being tilted or having a bad game works. let me educate you: the part that is lost, is the player's skill. the "while understanding..." part goes away.

Ph03n1xb1rd1 votes

Having a bad game doesnt mean you keep constantly dueling with your enemy. Having a bad game means you fcked up once or twice in early and now you are forced to play defensive, hug your tower, lose CS and XP, because being zoned out.

Bad game != constantly dying to enemy with forcing duels. That is inting, not a "bad game".

And trust me, i was tilted a lot, but i never inted because of it. I had bad games because of it (see the description of a bad game above). So please do not try to use the "bad game" and "being tilted" excuse for anything.

EDIT: I just realized this is a dead thread, maybe we should stop gravedigging :D

Whisperwind232 votes

{quoted}

A very legitimate question, and the line can certainly be thin at times.

Soft inting is almost always accompanied with passive aggressive tones.

What would you consider passive aggressive tones when text chat is literally tone deaf. For example, in your post you seem to suggest saying "ok" is being passive aggressive.

The biggest problem with all your suggestions is that it is EXTREMELY easy to wrongfully punish people based off it because the system could perceive them of soft inting even when they are not.

Roger Teh Alien3 votes

They're not just gonna ban people because they say "ok". They're going to watch replays of the game to see if this person is actually soft inting. Someone in Diamond is not going to make the same mistakes over and over like someone in lower elo. (Even people in Platinum generally aren't going to make the same mistakes over and over.) So if they are continuing to consistently make mistake after mistake then they're obviously soft inting.

KlydeFrog2 votes

Being bad and playing bad is different. What the op said is very clear. Giving up after 2 min in

Jaygo414 votes

"Soft Inting" is a symptom of a heavy snowball meta, because both sides acknowledge that it's extremely difficult for a winning team to come back, so being behind is demoralizing. There's literally no way to punish soft inting without getting into the mind of everyone who's doing it/playing poorly. If you had reasonable comeback mechanics that people knew about or the winning team wasn't just running around one shotting everyone, then you'd have less people soft inting. You know how everyone's a little aggressive these days? The game is why. You can't filter peoples' thoughts.

LetMeCarry19831 votes

This so much. I've done this so called, "soft inting", mainly because my team mates never wanted to surrender lost games. In season 5, comebacks were common but today, it's extremely rare. You can't feed 10 kills in 10 minutes and expect to make a comeback in season 8. It's almost never going to happen.

I don't do it anymore. I just pad my KDA and see how well I can do before we lose the game. Most times it's just me trying my best not to die vs super fed enemies.

Herlgar3 votes

In my years of gaming I've come to the realisation that it's much easier to change your own perspective on the game and stop getting angry because of other people's behavior than to try to change every single other person to your liking.

Like it or not, it's simply impossible to cover every kind of annoying behavior in a way that is also fair to everyone that is playing nicely but might make mistakes. The closest we can get is with a manual review of every case which isn't easy to do (we used to have the Tribunal to get closer to this, but it was mostly for chat log reviewing. Judging in-game behavior is even harder).

iDarkWind3 votes

Yes, and that's the thing I hate the most. Since I've reached Diamond, and even in Platinum, people just tend to give up so easly wich makes me so mad sometimes, especially when the game is still on-going and we still have a good chance of winning. I can't blame the Riot tought, it isn't to identify who does it, unless he admits it on the chatlog. I would rather blame this community mindset, wich is trash.

RebeccaUCuber3 votes

I Think only Honor 5 judges would be better ^^

Ph03n1xb1rd1 votes

Being honoured and understanding the game has nothing in common.

If you said Honor 5 Diamond+ (or even higher) judges, then I would agree ;)

RebeccaUCuber1 votes

we are talking about high elo in mind, so yes...could be!

Frontline Fury3 votes

«Soft inting»? Is that what we call «tilt» or «not being good enough»?

You do realize one laner has to lose for the other to win, right? That’s the nature of competition.

EasternBladeStar2 votes

Ah, the mandatory guy who keeps claiming every feeding troll just has a bad game going.

Read the post before commenting. And read it with thought.

woodvsmurph3 votes

This is not a "high elo" exclusive problem. It is a problem at every elo.

"High elo" people really need to rethink what they say... because that is completely relative/subjective term. A gold might think... I'm in top 25% or better... I'm high elo. And compared to someone in mid bronze, they're right. Meanwhile the mid diamond looks at the gold 2 and says... they're low elo. And scoffs at them only to in turn be viewed as low elo noob by some upper master tier or challenger player. "High elo" is completely subjective, and there is no magical point at which players suddenly "become capable of understanding" the game in some new fashion.

People at every elo have something they understand and something they can improve on. The higher you climb, the more diverse your pool of things you are good at TENDS to be... however, there's still always people who might specialize at being really good at one or two things and others who are generalists... just ok at most or all things. But the AVERAGE of all their skills weighted together balances out among these players... which is why they are at the same elo.

What can be truthfully said though is that each elo has a "SKILL FLOOR". By this I mean that certain BASIC knowledge and skill in various areas must be achieved in order for a person to truthfully reach a certain elo. So what exactly might that look like?

Well if I"m in challenger, I sure as hell have had practice with 4-1 and 1-3-1 splitpushing, so I know how to fulfill my role in each position (the 1, the 4, the 1, the 3) in said scenario whether I'm the team trying to stop the enemy's split or whether I'm the team trying to force down towers with the split. I'll also know how to get the most out of wards, watch the map and predict where enemy jg and any mia laners are w/o team having to spam ping me. I'll cs well, have good micro on my champ compared with MOST players, and understand macro game... when do I rotate, when to I keep pushing, when do I concede...

Let's back up a step though. What if I'm actually a plat player put in challenger. Maybe I'm an OTP who actually has challenger level skill on my champ... but I'll still be severely lacking in other areas than micro. I might have bad map awareness and keep getting picked on by ganks in laning phase. I might cost teamfights by being slow to rotate. I might mess up on when to rotate or to keep splitting in a few scenarios or hesitate so that my team ends up coming out behind. But in a plat game, my opponents think at the same pace I do... so I look just fine.

And further down the elo ranks... silver. I will have heard of and even tried splitpushing here... but I might get punished for it more than a plat player would because I'm not as experienced at it and/or my team has minimal skill playing with a splitpushing teammate. My warding is worse still, but I made it out of low bronze, so I at least sometimes ward halfways decent. I might have a champ I'm "good" at or a few, but there's many others that I will be pretty weak at. My build is either a random collection of stuff I think will work playing reactive to my opponents or is stolen off some meta website and I likely don't understand WHY those items are good or bad in any great detail.

What I'm trying to say is... there's minimum basic skills a player has or should have if they are at a certain elo. They might/should EXCEED that skill floor in one or more areas... but they must AT LEAST meet the skill floor to have gotten to that elo w/o either buying the account, stealing it, or having been boosted to that elo. Some players will exceed that minimum in one area, but exceed it overwhelmingly. Others will exceed it minorly in many areas... or any combo in between.

Thus... there is no magic elo where you suddenly "UNDERSTAND" the game and "know better" than to do something. Inting is inting... at any elo. Sure the lower the elo you go, the more you can excuse. Until it's done too many times. You don't need to touch a hot burner only once if you're challenger, 3x if you're plat, and 10x if you are bronze to realize it's a bad idea. A splitpushing squishy should know after 2x of dying from the same mistake that they need to adjust their strategy... fewer times if they're high enough elo. Dying more than that in the same fashion... especially if teammate(s) are spelling out that it's a mistake and offering a valid solution you haven't even attempted... is inting.

Soft inting, hard inting... it doesn't matter. It's been excused for far too long. Anything "toxic" is witch hunted to the ground immediately, but all except the 0.1% worst cases of inting are completely written off and excused... and even rewarded further by hunting down the player(s) "toxic" enough to dare call it what it is (inting). This is what is destroying the game in part. The other half is arguably poor guiding philosophy in creating and balancing stuff. I've already made a few posts on the two things to consider with that (power curve balancing and the trinity of mobility, durability, and damage) so I won't say more about that here. Newer players might miss when someone soft ints in lower elo especially, but to someone who knows... it's pretty obvious. As a simple example, i had a vayne who had horrible kda from giving up after she fell behind in lane and didn't immediately get 24/7 jg camp to help her. Spent most of mid game afk farming side lane 1v0 w/o pressuring a single tower as our entire team payed for her being selfish over and over again. Then I got off one good engage, she snagged 2 kills and she started 2v5'ing the other team with me. She went from unable to dodge a SINGLE slow moving skillshot to dodging multiple at once. She didn't magically become that much better... she'd soft inted from the moment she fell behind until then because she didn't want to try winning from behind... no matter how well or ahead the rest of her team may have been.

Even if she hadn't flipped that switch to make it obvious she'd been soft inting before, I would have known. Why? Because she repeated the same "mistakes" over and over again which someone at my elo is too smart to make when the fix is so easy. Because she was underperforming in every metric by a LONG shot. Warding, cs, kda, micro, macro, etc. Everything was below excuse. Furthermore, she was unwilling to adjust ANYTHING to work with the team or enable us to help her. That behavior needs to stop being excused as "bad game" regardless of elo. Calling that "bad game"/unlucky is a disservice to people actually having a bad game.

Verxint2 votes

That one peeves the shit out of me. Whether it's "soft inting" or just stupidity, it can be either. But when someone is personally doing poorly, so they decide the game is unwinnable. Then they do stupid shit and say "we can't win anyway". Whether or not it's intentional in any given case, they make a self fulfilling prophecy. And then when you lose because it was basically 4v5 they toot their horn about how they were right.

Fucking aggravating

Noor Sakata2 votes

Honestly that happens in Gold Elo like 3 times a match , you get at least people in every match who are like this , sometimes everyone in the match does that..

Malak3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQvwHUbO,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-08-17T16:56:41.146+0000)

Honestly that happens in Gold Elo like 3 times a match , you get at least people in every match who are like this , sometimes everyone in the match does that..

Yea some high elo players tend to think if you’re not diamond then you’re in the same league as bronze but in reality gold already has the same issue

chipndip12 votes

I had to deal with this shit just yesterday. I had an Akali go 3/13/7, forcing me, my carry, and my jungler to hard carry her and our shitty top lane Riven. The ENTIRE time, I was begging this guy to just do what I was telling them to do, which was to stop running off and dying in side lanes so we have more bodies to protect Jinx, and potentially an opportunity for her to land gold, while Riven can do whatever in the side lanes. She literally ignored this singular plea ALL GAME. Why? "I'm sorry. I'm tilted". I won, but it's fucking unfair that this fucking bonobo gets to hard grief my game AND get lp for it and I can't do shit about it. Nothing about being "tilted" makes someone not follow simple instructions. This dude intentionally put us at risk at losing basic freelo because he got ganked a few times by a literally useless Shaco (Shaco did 6.6k damage, and I as a Nami did 8.2k damage...literally useless). I'm supposed to lose to a 6.6k damage Shaco in a 28 minute game because ONE SINGULAR DUDE can't hold his head longer than 5 minutes?

I absolutely despise this community for shit like this. It's a team game where it feels like half your own team is ALSO the fucking enemy, and it's not even the game's fault. No wonder this game's so unenjoyable for so many people. Dealing with this toxicity is just ridiculous, and it's game after freaking game. I'm SICK of my own teammates deciding when I get to lose games. I'm fucking sick of it.

Trollmanship2 votes

Counterpoint: If I'm down by 2 kills or 2 levels (sometimes even 1 kill or 1 level) there's no point in freezing the lane, because I will get straight up dove and 100-0'd before I can touch any of that farm and fall even further behind as a huge wave of previously frozen creeps crashes into my tower.

Gangstarr6662 votes

Wintrading needs to be addressed as well, which can also be done by soft inting. >.>

Add922 votes

I like that a lot .

And soft inting is a REAL THING lol .

anybody saying otherwise just needs to watch any high elo streamers .

I watch Dom , T1 , Tarzaned , Meta etc , and these guys get so many obvious griefers it tilts me even though I'm not playing .

And nobody does anything about it because RIOT is a small indie company that doesn't have the means to find a solution like the one you imagined . I've been saying for a while that if RIOT found a way to deal with the actual ROOT of toxicity , which is inters/griefers/afkers and wintraders high elo etc .

the playerbase that is trying hard to seriously climb and get toxic because of these guys would feel relieved to know that the trolls are getting punished and I can bet you that toxicity would go down incredibly fast .

I wouldn't feel frustrated and feel like lashing out at that guy running it down mid because he lost 1v1 twice , because I'd know that he's gonna get punished . I wouldn't even type at him .

Ash Lockheart2 votes

{quoted}

And it's an issue unique to high elo, because many times lower elo folks make dumb mistakes because they don't know better.

But soft inting is THE most toxic fucking thing about high elo. It's more toxic than flaming, and it's even more toxic than literally running it down mid. When someone runs it down mid, at least that's an easy identification for griefing.

But anyone in higher elo understands, and experiences, probably once every 3 games MINIMUM, that one fucker who for whatever reason happens to die early or something, and the first thing they say is "ff15" or "gg next" or whatever the fuck it is. And if ANYONE tries to tell him to hang in there or that the game is winnable, he'll say anything along the lines of either "please don't waste time" or "nah" or the subtle "ok."

And what happens after that moment? An ally has been slain, an ally has been slain.

"Hey man, why don't you play safer and stay closer to your turret instead of shoving out so far since you're behind?" - rational high elo player

"Nah he's too far ahead, I can't do anything, sorry man, but I need the cs" - soft inter

Now you're probably thinking, 'that's not too unreasonable.'

Well here's the fucking catch, he's refusing to try and freeze, he's blatantly overshoving, he is refusing to ward anything because he doesn't give a shit and he needs an excuse for when he gets ganked, and he clearly doesn't care to listen to his teammates who are trying to help him.

It's 15 minutes, and IMMEDIATELY the vote comes out by yours fucking truly. The rational people vote no, because there is reason to believe that the game can rebound since other lanes are doing fine if not potentially succeeding.

vote fails.

"wow" / "you people are wasting time" / "it's over" / what-fucking-ever

Soft inter just washes, rinses, and repeats. Purposefully shove, intentionally fight the opponent who has 3000 gold over him and "try" to beat that opponent even though he KNOWS for a fact he's going to lose simply from the exp and gold difference, never group with the team even after lane phase is clearly over and the enemy is knocking on an inhib turret or something.

etc. etc.

It's a fucking cancer, it is THE fucking cancer of high elo.


Riot could potentially try out something like what CSGO has where the community polices itself (its called overwatch or something, basically you're given footage of the game, and after watching it, you and several other judges anonymously and without knowing who voted what, vote on the fate of the player whose stream you were given).

Ways to eliminate bias and ensure the best judges which CSGO already has in place and which it might not (haven't played it in a while):

  1. When given the footage of the game, the names of all players are censored.

  2. Anyone who was in the game of interest is disqualified from judging it.

  3. Judges must be AT LEAST diamond 5, no one in a lower elo is allowed to judge a game (higher elo players better understand the game and what soft inters do)

  4. the footage must be AT LEAST 3 days old. This is a "Streamer" rule so to speak. As many high elo players stream, by having the footage age before being viewed, there is a MUCH less likely chance of people recognizing the game despite all the other measures being taken to avoid such a scenario. As soft inting is the hardest thing to spot, those who report may have to wait for up to 3-5 days before being given the satisfactory message about action being taken from their report, and all measures must be taken to ensure objectivity of the judges. But hey, late is better than never.

  5. For being a judge, you are given honor and a set amount of Blue Essence (or a key fragment or something).

  6. Judges must have the option to recuse themselves at any point, and a player will have the option, upon reaching AT LEAST diamond 5, of excusing themselves from even being selected as a potential judge (so if they don't want to be a part of the system at all then they don't have to be).

  7. Judges should be from the region of interest that the defendant is operating in, as different regions may have different playstyles.

  8. There should be NO LESS than 3 random judges viewing the exact same footage.

  9. NO ONE BELOW THE HONOR LEVEL OF 2 MAY ACT AS A JUDGE.

If you ask me, the offenses should be treated in the following manner:

The first offense is only a 24 hour ban (you never know if things go wrong and someone is wrongly accused). The second offense WITHIN A MONTH is a 3 day ban. The third offense WITHIN A MONTH OF THE SECOND OFFENSE is a week ban. the FOURTH offense WITHIN A MONTH OF THE THIRD OFFENSE is an indefinite ban.

While that may seem very lenient for what is essentially griefing, it would be important to recognize that something such as soft inting can still be potentially hard to recognize. Soft inters tend to repeat their behavior with pride. Someone accidentally accused even up to two times wouldn't suffer so severely. But chronic soft inters who get indicted more than two times within such a time period would suffer accordingly and potentially meet a rightful indefinite ban.

Just food for thought. Feel free to discuss.

games are very easy to tell the outcome after a few mins regardless of how hard people play. The reason for this is because defense was nerfed after the ruins got removed. So comebacks are less likely to happen. Riot has stated that they wanted the lead to keep going instead of it being a back and forth kind of gameplay. I know this for a fact because I have seen enough post, and videos of them explaining to us why they did whatever change to last me a lifetime. Who ever screws up the most will cost the game, and that's just the way it is. The lasted video they posted stated they are going to change some power, and up a very very little bit of defense. Witch means they will tune a few things, and then leave it at that.

The reality is team fights that lasted long are no more. It's all about which team can burst the most. That's the new game. No more tanks being tough. No more taking your time in a teamfight to get to the back line. People didn't like long games, and got there wish to have short games with alot of burst. At the end of the day. You got what you wanted.

Tundra Hunter1 votes

Tychusfindlay918 (NA) is, obviously, unranked. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Tychusfindlay918

why do people claiming to be "high elo" (btw, what is high elo owing to you?) always hiding using "alternative bronze account"? Just use your high elo account if you have one, it improves your credibility.

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tundra Hunter,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQvwHUbO,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2018-08-18T02:04:24.745+0000)

Tychusfindlay918 (NA) is, obviously, unranked. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Tychusfindlay918

why do people claiming to be "high elo" (btw, what is high elo owing to you?) always hiding using "alternative bronze account"? Just use your high elo account if you have one, it improves your credibility.

Tychusfindlay918 was banned.

My new account is Reformedfindlay. I peaked at D4 then fell down to P3 where I'm at right now. And that has what exactly to do with the topic at hand? There's no need for credibility. Anyone beyond gold understands the issue at hand, hence why my thread resonates with enough people to reach the views and upvotes it has. Anyone else could have made this same thread and it would still be valid.

Tundra Hunter1 votes

It would've help me if you said directly "high elo = gold +" and "my main account is P3, name is Reformedfindlay"

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tundra Hunter,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQvwHUbO,comment-id=002500000000,timestamp=2018-08-18T02:48:50.816+0000)

It would've help me if you said directly "high elo = gold +" and "my main account is P3, name is Reformedfindlay"

High elo is not gold+.

I fell out of high elo IMO because I consider high elo diamond+.

Riot's official stance is that plat 5 is the beginning of high elo IIRC.

Tundra Hunter1 votes

OK. Well I can relate. I've been platinum (around plat 3) since season 4. http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=tundra+hunter I decayed to gold for inactivity last season. And this season............. I got demoted to gold after behing hard stuck in plat 5 for ages. This is a typical game like I had throughout this season (this one from yesterday): https://matchhistory.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/OC1/216356769/200842675?tab=overview

Note how I am leading in CS despite being the jungler. I do not steal lane cs. I grab lane cs when a teammates dies (often 1v1), or when a lane needs to be pushed. I believe me leading in cs (this happens in most of my games) is because I am not in my elo. I've been plat 3 since season 4, and I have to play with Silvers at the moment. Laners cs is so bad that I am ahead from min 1 to end of the game. And because of the "anti gold funneling", I get less cs gold as a jungler.... it really, really sucks. Note how I am 10/2/11 68% kill participation (the highest) - I am not just playing safe for KDA.

I have games like that all the time this season. Games where I am 1st in damage dealt, 1st in damage taken, 1st in kill participation, I bring tons of CC, I get all drakes, the rift herald, secure or steal baron nashor, I try to boost the team motivation.......... and meanwhile, my team is like 3/32/5, crazy behind in gold and experience, etc. I've been personally thinking that there is something really weird going on with match-making, somehow. Anyway. I take it as an opportunity to learn to carry silvers.

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