When Melee is using something better than ranged it gets changed immediately

Akali is SO HOT·Dec 5, 2017·173 votes·4,814 views

But when ranged uses everything else better than melee it's k and doesn't need changes.

106 Comments

oOBestEveNAOoDec 5, 201755 votes

Don't you just love the 4 marksman comp meta where every game is a siege fest at 15 minutes in one lane and the game is over at 20???

ISN'T THIS FUN BLAKE?!?!???

No really though, it's pretty stupid.

Akali is SO HOTDec 5, 20176 votes

Spank the FoxDec 6, 201712 votes

The last 4 AD comp I played against got rolled over by tanks and bruisers.

Why are the whiniest players also the ones who play the least/have the lowest levels?

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APV6Ntrl,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-12-06T02:50:00.308+0000)

The last 4 AD comp I played against got rolled over by tanks and bruisers.

Why are the whiniest players also the ones who play the least/have the lowest levels?

http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=spank+the+fox

Has played one season and is low elo. Says a bunch of silly nonsense to one of the boards oldest veterans like playing low elo players who don't know how to do anything means he has the knowledge after a single season to comment on the topic with authority.

Right....

Spank the FoxDec 6, 201712 votes

For a veteran player, you seem to forget how easy it is to create new accounts.

I can almost guarantee I’ve been playing longer than you, but you’re hiding behind what appears to be a permabanned account anyways.

Interesting how you still failed to refute my point.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APV6Ntrl,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-06T03:57:06.568+0000)

For a veteran player, you seem to forget how easy it is to create new accounts.

I can almost guarantee I’ve been playing longer than you, but you’re hiding behind what appears to be a permabanned account anyways.

Interesting how you still failed to refute my point.

I'm posting on an active account that's just a smurf. I like to make one trick accounts and play them up to diamond. Generally I only use it for one season before trying a new one trick challenge.

However many accounts you might have isn't relevant.

Your statement was. In a siege meta like what we are in currently good players will make that meta comp work more often than not. Generally speaking 4 and 3 adc comps aren't likely to win very many games. Unless the meta favors fast games heavily reliant on siege tactics and snowballing strategies.

There's no point to refute because you don't make one except that "poor players consistently underperform regardless of meta", to which all of us will say, "duh."

KaìjuDec 6, 20173 votes

What four ADC comps are you seeing? I haven't seen one.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

What four ADC comps are you seeing? I haven't seen one.

Not many, but tons of 3 adc comps. Anything more than 1 per comp is unhealthy for the game state and drastically limits the pool of viable champions.

KaìjuDec 6, 20177 votes

What 3 ADC comps are you seeing because I have not seen one.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

What 3 ADC comps are you seeing because I have not seen one.

Trist, twitch, and graves are all performing well in the jungle (even outperforming typical junglers in some scenarios) while all adcs are being played mid lane more often. Occasionally you get an mf or Ashe support in high level play (typically a niche counter pick for lane phase against aggressive poke oriented mage supports). And every so often one wanders to top lane like a vayne or Quinn.

KaìjuDec 6, 20175 votes

So, I get I'm only Silver. But my elo loves to copy high elo. I have not seen Trist or Twitch jungle, I haven't seen a single ADC mid (who is all of them, Ashe? Jinx? Cait? Sivir? Xayah? Because those five make up like a quarter of all ADCs) and I have yet to see Ashe or MF mid. Can you link me to some videos talking about it or showing it as a new meta?

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

So, I get I'm only Silver. But my elo loves to copy high elo. I have not seen Trist or Twitch jungle, I haven't seen a single ADC mid (who is all of them, Ashe? Jinx? Cait? Sivir? Xayah? Because those five make up like a quarter of all ADCs) and I have yet to see Ashe or MF mid. Can you link me to some videos talking about it or showing it as a new meta?

It usually takes some time for high level play to trickle down to low elo. Generally low level play is about 6 months behind the innovation in higher level play.

You can simply watch pro streamers if you would like to see how the meta is shaping up. Or ask your other high level friends how commonly certain things outside of the norm are occurring. Its still not the most common thing to have 3 adc comps, but it is occurring MUCH more often than at any point in the past aside from the month or two after graves' rework. How often it occurs doesn't mean much in the end, but how effective it is means quite a bit. As it stands its reasonably effective at the moment and this is a bad thing for the over all health of the game, but it is preseason and we often see more ranged comps in preseason as well so it won't be until probably February that we have a good idea if it's truly warping the meta as opposed to just shaping it.

It's fine to occasionally have a 2 adc comp for niche situations with one mid lane and one bot lane, but even this becoming commonplace is bad for the game health as it marginalizes mages and relegates them to top/support which, in turn, marginalizes top/supports (Malzahar right now any one? Top lane win rate wtf?). Range is one of the most compelling advantages in the game and has a huge impact early in games and in siege situations and the faster games go (and the more Riot buffs marksman early games) the bigger this inherent advantage is since ADC itemization is so strong and significantly cheaper (and more effective) than the itemization meant for classes intended to jump and destroy marksmen (bruisers and assassins).

Encouraging marksmen in any other role than duo lane encourages poor game health and stifles champion diversity all because of the inherent advantage of range in lane (or clearing jungle with kiting) early in games.

KaìjuDec 6, 20174 votes

My friends are mostly high plat low dia and they haven't had a single three marksman game. And you didn't answer my question about Ashe, Jinx, Sivir, Cait, Xayah, or the others going mid. Who are you seeing go mid that makes you use the term "all ADCs are being played mid lane..."

Succubús GFDec 6, 20172 votes

Tristana doesn't legitimately go jg. But a lot of boosters use her in the jungle because it can be really strong and if she snowballs, well you've seen a late game get early game power spike tristana. I have seen cait mid a few times, but only because she can be really oppressive for certain champions. Again more counterpick than anything. Pretty sure Lucian and ezreal mid are still a thing. Not too sure about varus since he isn't meta. Although I hope he doesn't go mid and become meta bc then they'll nerf syndra again [sg-shisa]

But if you go ahead and look at the roles in champ select Top lane has vayne in it Jg has twitch and graves in it. Graves ofc bc he doesn't go bot lol

KaìjuDec 6, 20172 votes

I've been seeing Vayne top since season 4 when I started, I hardly think that's new. I get Graves and Twitch but my general grievances (general Kenobi) are with his statement about "all adcs" when I'm not even seeing anyone besides Vayne, Draven, Ez, Jhin, and MF even played bot lane, but he words it like Xayah mid is new meta.

JayblaiDec 6, 20172 votes

ive seen a varus mid atleast 3 games out of every ten recently

Pierce The VealDec 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What 3 ADC comps are you seeing because I have not seen one.

Quinn, regular adc, graves is one that's not uncommon.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 5, 20179 votes

Because ranged abusing melee cases are generally not huge abuse cases. They're generally either minor or champion-specific, so they just change that champion.

Meanwhile, Phase Rush is actually useless on ranged champs. Literally every option is better for ranged champs. Every. Single. One. Buffing the MS to make it match melee champs isn't much when melee champions will still have the 75% slow resist isn't a huge buff.

IcyPepperDec 5, 201730 votes

item 3053 item 3156

then

lethality

DuskDaUmbreonDec 5, 20177 votes

Gage was rarely used by ranged champs. And, since OP is probably bitching specifically about ADCs getting to use it, what ADC actually buys Maw against anything but a 4 mage comp?

And the issue with lethality wasn't ADCs abusing it, but that Lethality was so strong that everyone that could use it was abusing it.

Akali is SO HOTDec 5, 201732 votes

Maybe you weren't here when basically every ADC was abusing the Gage + Maw combo

DuskDaUmbreonDec 5, 20175 votes

Apparently I wasn't.

But, generally, I've noticed that whenever an ADC is abusing something, it's because the item itself is broken (such as in Lethality's case). Or that ADC is Ezreal, because he abuses everything (champ-specific abuse).

And, let's not pretend you're complaining about cases like that. You're complaining that Phase Rush is being made not-useless for anyone ranged at all.

VerxintDec 5, 201734 votes

it's because the item itself is broken

Actually, what usually happens is the item is fine on the people it's intended to be used on but ADC's abuse it and ruin the fun for everyone.

Auz the RipperDec 5, 201720 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Scary Dario,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APV6Ntrl,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-05T23:38:06.642+0000)

Actually, what usually happens is the item is fine on the people it's intended to be used on but **ADC's **abuse it and ruin the fun for everyone.

Usually Ezreal to be specific.

iamthegoatofwarDec 6, 201712 votes

He does seem to break something every season... spirit of lizard elder...runglaive...kelpto I'm sure I'm missing some.

Faceroll TacticsDec 6, 20173 votes

Iceborn Gauntlet Muramana Blade of the Ruined King

He also breaks his own kit, his e is still bugged and his ultimate will never stop being cast unless he dies, no matter how much cc you put on him

Umbra IoniaDec 7, 20171 votes

The ult thing is because is not a real cast, just like Lux ult wich can't be stopped unless killing her.

Spank the FoxDec 6, 20172 votes

Every class was using it lmfao.

KennysDreamGirlDec 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APV6Ntrl,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-05T22:03:16.545+0000)

Maybe you weren't here when basically every ADC was abusing the Gage + Maw combo

I have played evey day since jhin release and I never saw this combo for adc. must be something from a older season

Faceroll TacticsDec 6, 20173 votes

Jhin was released in February 2016? It was actually around that time but you weren’t high enough level to see it consistently

KennysDreamGirlDec 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APV6Ntrl,comment-id=000200000000000000020000,timestamp=2017-12-06T13:30:06.955+0000)

Jhin was released in February 2016? It was actually around that time but you weren’t high enough level to see it consistently

well i started like 2-3 months before but i never really played pretty much everyday untill jhin was released so that probably explains it

Succubús GFDec 6, 20171 votes

Playing syndra in that time was HELL. R wouldn't do anything ever

HäxelDec 6, 20172 votes

since one made that thread on the boards it seems everyone believes that thing adn forgot how it actualy was. Again, here a reminder on the patchnotes how the statistics told riot who the abusers were: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-69-notes

"beefy champions". adcs are cleary the opposite of that. Beside graves adn maybe corki the most abusers were tanks, fighters, assassins.

CorvidDec 6, 20171 votes

Cant reason with them

IcyPepperDec 6, 20171 votes

You know, I kind of see why they get defensive. Even when your class is in a good spot or better, it's natural to be protective of it.

I understand it to a degree, but wish they would be reasonable as well. Sometimes, a class and certain itemization are not compatible for the sake of game balance. ADC is not the first, last, or unique example of this happening for any game.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 5, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Because ranged abusing melee cases are generally not huge abuse cases.

Tiamat.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 5, 20172 votes

Generally. But, then again, I wasn't around then.

I just assumed that that was because Titanic would just have a fucking massive range on a ranged champ. Like, effectively doubling their range.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 5, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Generally. But, then again, I wasn't around then.

Probably not a subject you should comment on then given your lack of experience in this regard. Leave it to those of us who have been top 1% players for several consecutive seasons. We have lots of experience.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 5, 20174 votes

Maybe your experience just isn't worthwhile, then?

Don't you just love the 4 marksman comp meta

In no universe does this happen as anything but a joke or ARAM. Marksmen top just aren't a thing that ever do well except against champions that are only countered by range, marksmen jungle generally don't happen (except for the rare time Twitch junglers, or when Ezreal was trying to be viable somewhere), the "marksmen" mid are closer to casters (I'd say AD casters, but Corki doesn't even build that much AD), marksmen support don't happen (with the rare exception of someone who tries Ashe support, or the ONE time Miss Fortune support worked)...

oOBestEveNAOoDec 5, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Maybe your experience just isn't worthwhile, then?

In no universe does this happen as anything but a joke or ARAM. Marksmen top just aren't a thing that ever do well except against champions that are only countered by range, marksmen jungle generally don't happen (except for the rare time Twitch junglers, or when Ezreal was trying to be viable somewhere), the "marksmen" mid are closer to casters (I'd say AD casters, but Corki doesn't even build that much AD), marksmen support don't happen (with the rare exception of someone who tries Ashe support, or the ONE time Miss Fortune support worked)...

Again...

You MISSED the meta where this already happened once, it was quickly rectified as graves had the top win rate at every position except for support for a whole month.

Please, if you don't understand the content you are commenting on then just don't comment on it. I'm aware you weren't around. This is why you should stop talking and perk open them ears.

There's a lot you can learn just by listening to some of the best and most experienced players on the boards.

BobaFlautistDec 6, 20171 votes

Graves isn't really a marksman in his current iteration. He has similar builds, and he does do repeated physical damage at range, but he functions very differently.

Graves is to Marksmen as mid-range battlemages ( Swain Vladimir Rumble ) are to pure dps mages ( Cassiopeia Karthus Azir )

I know the line is a little blurry (made more so by the fact that itemization plays a huge role in the distinction and mage itemization is a huge mess) but I think it's pretty clear what I'm going for.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Graves isn't really a marksman in his current iteration. He has similar builds, and he does do repeated physical damage at range, but he functions very differently.

Graves is to Marksmen as mid-range battlemages ( ) are to pure dps mages ( )

I know the line is a little blurry (made more so by the fact that itemization plays a huge role in the distinction and mage itemization is a huge mess) but I think it's pretty clear what I'm going for.

...

Just. No.

He's always been an AD burst caster. Always and forever. He's essentially an all in version of Ezreal while Ezreal is the siege version. Lucian is the in between.

StruggellsDec 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

...

Just. No.

He's always been an AD burst caster. Always and forever. He's essentially an all in version of Ezreal while Ezreal is the siege version. Lucian is the in between.

Actually, that's not true. He has not "always been an AD burst caster." He was designed as a marksman to begin with, and with his rework with the ammo system, then became a burst marksmen.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Actually, that's not true. He has not "always been an AD burst caster." He was designed as a marksman to begin with, and with his rework with the ammo system, then became a burst marksmen.

....

He was designed as an AD burst caster...

He has ALWAYS been an AD burst caster.

He will ALWAYS be an AD burst caster.

He was king of the AD burst caster's in season 2 when the holy trinity of burst casters was a thing with Corki, Ez, and Graves.

Sheez.

sddghyufjasdklhuDec 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Maybe your experience just isn't worthwhile, then?

In no universe does this happen as anything but a joke or ARAM. Marksmen top just aren't a thing that ever do well except against champions that are only countered by range, marksmen jungle generally don't happen (except for the rare time Twitch junglers, or when Ezreal was trying to be viable somewhere), the "marksmen" mid are closer to casters (I'd say AD casters, but Corki doesn't even build that much AD), marksmen support don't happen (with the rare exception of someone who tries Ashe support, or the ONE time Miss Fortune support worked)...

you have no clue what youre talking about and its hilarious. Top vayne is definitely a thing, the more common form of ranged top cancer includes but is not limited to: kennen, gnar, jayce, vayne, teemo. They counter almost any top lane champ that isnt also ranged, or isnt maokai. Theres few top laners that can deal wit hthem well, like pantheon (but who doesnt he counter in lane) and maybe 1 more im not thinking of right now.

And ezreal jg is still a thing, kindred is really powerful too if played correctly this pre-season.

Corki is a marksman - he abuses crit like the rest of them. Ive seen successful trist, jhin, ezreal, and varus mids recently. Some more so than others, but marksmen are going to every position now. Ever see a bruiser anywhere except top or jg recently? Nope. You see ezreal support recently? Yep. Vayne top? yep. Ezreal/twitch jg? yep. And anyone who wants to in mid? yep.

The cause of all of this is ADC ITEMS ARE SUPER CHEAP!!! FIX THIS SHIT RIOT! Games are decided at 15 minutes if not sooner, adc's end it around 20 minutes because they hit their 3 item spike faster than anyone else.

NineTailedMysticDec 6, 20171 votes

Leave it to those of us who have been top 1% players for several consecutive seasons. We have lots of experience.

Unranked. Wot.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Unranked. Wot.

I boycotted season 7. Preseason changes were very bad, game state was stagnant and not fun, lack of strategic diversity in favor of snowball meta, several items went the entire season without being properly balanced, etc, etc.

But yeah.

I guess, technically, I'm an unranked scrub now. OH MY THE HUMANITYYYYYY!!!!!!

Also, you get a name change?

NineTailedMysticDec 6, 20171 votes

Considering there's no games prior to season 6...

Also the fact that I still have my rank from s6, but you don't is interesting.

Also I haven't had a name change in quite a while, so I don't think I am who you think I am.

oOBestEveNAOoDec 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Considering there's no games prior to season 6...

Also the fact that I still have my rank from s6, but you don't is interesting.

Also I haven't had a name change in quite a while, so I don't think I am who you think I am.

NineTailedWaifu, student of mine from season 6. Mistaken identity, as that was a name change to get to NineTailedWaifu in the first place.

I'm JayMC btw. Nice to meet you! The prior 6 and a half years of posting was done on Jaymc1130. Most of the playing is done on more than a dozen different accounts, most like this one set up for One Trick Challenge Diamond runs.

NineTailedMysticDec 6, 20171 votes

Oh, the dude with the Spike icon.