@Meddler Can we please change how Luden's works with Karthus's ult?

D2Vincent·Jul 18, 2017·54 votes·2,194 views

At this point in time, people STILL don't know whether or not how the proc on Luden's Echo works with Karthus and his ult. Some people say it's the closest enemy to you, some people say you can change the target through scoreboard shenanigans. Some people just don't know.

Regardless of what one is truly the correct way that it procs, I'm asking if You and Riot can at least create some sort of way for it to work every time that can unify all users of the item on Karthus to make things less confusing?

I dunno, make a video or statement about it, make an official way to actually target an enemy with the proc and the ult, I dunno. I'm just asking for a better way to know who's getting hit by this when I ult, that's all.

17 Comments

ZielmannJul 18, 201726 votes

I'm fairly certain that the priority goes based on pick order for the opposing team. So you couldn't shuffle around the scoreboard to force it to prioritize certain champs over others. It's a lot more clear this way, because the pick order from champ select was the same for everybody in the game, whereas anybody can shuffle around the Tab screen however they want.

And it's not just Karthus who deals with this (though he's the poster child of the issue, really). Anybody that can apply damage to multiple targets simultaneously with the same spell will run into this. Lux E or R hitting multiple targets, for instance.

I feel like it would be better to base it off of something like percent remaining health of the targets. Whoever has the lowest will take the proc. This makes it work in favor of the Luden's carrier, without putting any specific person on the other team at an inherent disadvantage (like if the ADC was first pick against a karthus).

sir d wreckJul 19, 20172 votes

If Luden's proc is based off of the scoreboard or champ select order, etc... I'm very curious how something that has to do with game balance is influenced by the players order chosen in champ select like people are saying here. Seems like an extremely weird interaction. I don't have a good solution, getting 'outplayed' by a Luden's proc because you had a certain pick order just doesn't seem right.

TwitchInMyPantsJul 19, 20177 votes

Frankly that makes fuckall sense, why does pick order matter after we're in game, it's randomized to begin with. Wouldn't the closest target to you be a lot more sane of a way to handle it? It'd be clear for allies and enemies who's going to take bonus burst and it gives you time to walk away from each other. Instead of "Uh who was first pick, was it our jungler or adc? Oh wait it was the support theres the ludens proc"

aspects1Jul 19, 20171 votes

you can shuffle the scoreboard to get prioritization

Fear the KaynJul 18, 20177 votes

It should just proc on everyone.

Zer0HikuJul 19, 20178 votes

thats called a horrible ludens volcano that garuntees a penta on any grouped up team item 2050

Brownie ElfieJul 19, 20171 votes

While that would be obscenely unbalanced, it would be pretty cool to have that be your penta lol

PrinceOfStormsJul 19, 20171 votes

Not if it can only damage any given champion once.

yıffJul 19, 20171 votes

no way

FantasySniperJul 19, 20176 votes

I vote that it doesn't proc at all and we resist the temptation of giving Karthus' ult a power budget reliance on Luden's.

VumzucesJul 18, 20172 votes

Well heres something i do know..

if you have thunderlords on morgana and your W on the ground happens to hit 2 people at the same time.. thunderlords only activates on the person you have higher up on the scoreboard which you can see by pressing TAB.

I read this somewhere.. it was written by a rioter iirc I think karthus ult and ludens might work the same way..

Morgan le FeyJul 19, 20171 votes

Fun fact: Thunderlords has a tiny little AoE. If you position everyone carefully as a support Morg, you can hit both enemy laners with it. It's tough to pull off, mind, as the aoe is ridiculously small.

Blu3JayJul 19, 20172 votes

TFW people forget thunderlords is a AoE.

aspects1Jul 19, 20172 votes

it works based on who is at the top of your scoreboard if you want it to hit a certain person, but them at the top of your scoreboard (top laner by default unless they swapped roles)

crippler38Jul 19, 20171 votes

I vote it procs on the highest health champion, or the lowest to help secure kills (but highest makes more sense to me, even if lowest is stronger.)

I mean the item is pretty OK on Karthus thanks to how his Q works, but really it could stand to be more consistent on his ultimate.

MiraweaveJul 19, 20171 votes

Honestly, Luden's should just apply to every target hit by the spell that procced it, and just not be able to damage the same target twice.

TotalJerkJul 19, 20171 votes

It's been tested by the Karthus mains sub recently. Riot has actually frequently changed how it works without mentioning anything in the patch notes. At the current moment he procs Luden's on the closest enemy champion.