I will just say it: Ekko is borderline broken. His kit is completely overloaded.

iTaLenTZ··105 votes·10,187 views

Can someone from Riot get over here and explain to me why Ekko is allowed to be a high mobility tank assasin???? His kit is the combination of Riven+Zed+Ahri+Oriana. He deals too much damage while being able to build too tanky, has way too much ways to stick to his target and too many ways to survive a fight. There are very few windows of opportunity against him and they aren't even that great because he can still counter them.

Lets sum it up: -His passive slows, deals damage, gives movement speed and applies spell effects. I really had to read that a couple of times. Some champs get 1 tool from their passive and other ones like Zyra and Kog have useless passives and this guy gets 2 utility and 2 damaging tools and he even has another great passive on his W! -His Q slows and can strike twice. -His W either AoE stuns for 2.25s and gives a shield or slows. And the passive makes his autoattacks deal bonus magic damage based on missing %HP -His E has a dash and a blink and increases basic attack range and applies spell effects. -His R makes him untargetable, dash and heal and tons of base damage and is the reason why he is so difficult to punish

You see the tendency. Too much and...and.....and So we end up with 2 passives, 3 slows, 2 additional ways to trigger spell effects, ms boost, AoE stun, huge shield, 2 dashes, blink, increase in basic attack range, basic attacks deal bonus magic damage based on missing %HP (mini BotK), heal, overall tons of base damage because of passives and spells and spell effects. It is too much!

  • Ekko can make quadra kills with only 120AP and rest tank build
  • Ekko gains a huge shield that by definition makes him pseudo tank/assasin
  • The only way to kill Ekko is when you can OS him after a hard cc spell. So you have like on avarage 1.5-2 seconds to kill him or he will just ult away. In other words if he buys QSS it becomes impossible to kill him.
  • His passives are insane with Runeglaive/Lichbane and combined with his W passive these are in fact his 7th-8th items and the reason why he can 'sacrifice' AP items for tank items.
  • His passive slows and gives movement speed, his Q slows, his W slows or stuns (and gives him a shield). Then his E has a dash and a blink! So you know for sure you can't outrun him.
  • His passive and E both trigger spell effects.
  • His basic attacks have a build-in mini BotK.
  • Ekko can do everything by himself. He covers every aspect of the game. He has engage and disengage, tons of mobility and slows, he can absosb damage, he can heal, he blows people up etc etc. He goes in with his W+E and goes out with his R and is very hard to punish.

This champ is not about numbers alone. His kit is so completely overloaded and especially those passives are the reason why he will always remain a high mobility tank assasin until you start removing abundant parts from his kit to make him either a squishy high mobility assasin or a utility tank but with way less damage.

146 Comments

Matezoide72 votes

Ekko is an assassin with enough utility to be played as a tank to some success.

Try saying that without laughing.

Kingsgrave12 votes

{quoted}

Ekko is an assassin with enough utility to be played as a tank to some success.

Try saying that without laughing.

As long as he isn't doing both at once I really don't see the problem.

He isn't better at being an assassin than others nor is he better at being a tank than others. I'd say that qualifies as balanced.

Having a lot of tools doesn't make them broken.

Terchio7 votes

It's because he can do both at the same time. His utility doesn't just poof disappear when he goes assassin, and that isn't even his most successful build because his assassin doesn't disappear when he tanks, either. Base damages are sick, and abundant. Nobody's scared of a tank Kha or Akali, but apparently Ekko can get away with every utility weapon in the book while killing fast.

Lord OwlBear3 votes

Going to have to agree, he can build tank and with high base damages gets away with it to an amazing degree. I have no idea how he can get away with is high mobility, base damages, and utility in a single kit. Tank jungle ekko works way too efficiently.

Kingsgrave5 votes

{quoted}

It's because he can do both at the same time. His utility doesn't just poof disappear when he goes assassin, and that isn't even his most successful build because his assassin doesn't disappear when he tanks, either. Base damages are sick, and abundant. Nobody's scared of a tank Kha or Akali, but apparently Ekko can get away with every utility weapon in the book while killing fast.

Doing both at the same time isn't a problem as long as he doesn't excel at either while doing both

Class hybrids exist. Irelia is a Fighter/Assassin. Nasus is a Pusher and a Tank. Are they broken? Ofc not.

For Carthage4 votes

Fizz.

He did both jobs simultaneously while doing above average in both. Your point is invalid since Ekko can hardly damage without scaling and can hardly survive without bulk unless you really feel like blowing his safety net and the vast majority of his damage.

iTaLenTZ3 votes

This post is from 7 months ago and still very relevant. How sad and pathetic

DJ Di021 votes

Honestly I'd be fine with that if his W didn't stun you for so long. Seriously, Sona's is only 1.5 seconds. And yes, I understand that Ekko's is a lot harder to land, but he's not a support like she is and he has a lot more utility.

I think they should reduce the stun time and have it stun for more as you get more people.

TTUPhoenix7 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AKriA6N2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-05T22:50:39.203+0000)

Honestly I'd be fine with that if his W didn't stun you for so long. Seriously, Sona's is only 1.5 seconds. And yes, I understand that Ekko's is a lot harder to land, but he's not a support like she is and he has a lot more utility.

I think they should reduce the stun time and have it stun for more as you get more people.

It's not so much the duration that bothers me, it's the fact that it's that long at level 1. I feel like if it started at 1.25 seconds and scaled at .25s per rank or something it'd be a lot better - it's still a giant presence in a late game teamfight, but it significantly reduces the threat of "dodge this in lane or there's a good chance you die."

Divewing2 votes

1.25 would be too short, he maxes it last so take into account that it'd stay at whatever duration until level 14

Anidan3 votes

Would it really be too short? Many assassins don't even get CC anymore; some have even had them actively removed.

Terchio10 votes

It's an AoE stun with a shield. 1.25 seconds is plenty, especially with the crap-ton of slows he can hit you with.

One thing about assassins: The basic counter is to run away, and run away fast. Ekko actually punishes you for running away by making his W all the easier to land. They made a "shepherd champion" who is meant to corral enemies into corners and punish, but they made him strong enough to work without the corral, too. If he were weaker, I'd consider his 1.25 seconds a bit small maybe, but he doesn't need that long, for sure.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

GASP Having to make a trade off for maxing one thing over the other?! What an outrage!!!

Madra2 votes

So he maxes it last? Deal. That doesn't seem to bother Riot with Elise.

Narasimha18 votes

I'll give it a shot.

Ekko can make quadra kills with only 120AP and rest tank build

Unless your team sucks that much, he hasn't been able to do this for a while. All of his power is in his ratios now. 120 AP isn't even going to make a dent on anyone with MR, and lets face it, EVERYTHING kills squishies.

Ekko gains a huge shield that by definition makes him pseudo tank/assasin

Contrasts with your previous statement. If he builds tanky, then his shield is TINY. Barely over 300 health at max value, which is worth... what, one critical autoattack or a spell come late game?

The only way to kill Ekko is when you can OS him after a hard cc spell. So you have like on avarage 1.5-2 seconds to kill him or he will just ult away. In other words if he buys QSS it becomes impossible to kill him.

I have yet to see Ekko build QSS. Ever. Also, if he blows his ult to heal, then congrats! He just used most of his burst for safety. That's entirely fair.

His passives are insane with Runeglaive/Lichbane and combined with his W passive these are in fact his 7th-8th items and the reason why he can 'sacrifice' AP items for tank items.

Lichbane alone doesn't help. Not enough raw AP to make up for his low bases.

His passive slows and gives movement speed, his Q slows, his W slows or stuns (and gives him a shield). Then his E has a dash and a blink! So you know for sure you can't outrun him.

Not uncommon among assassins. Akali has multiple gap closers, Kha has his jump and ult, Zed has double gap closers, etc.

His passive and E both trigger spell effects.

Ok....?

His basic attacks have a build-in mini BotK.

Since when...?

Ekko can do everything by himself. He covers every aspect of the game. He has engage and disengage, tons of mobility and slows, he can absosb damage, he can heal, he blows people up etc etc. He goes in with his W+E and goes out with his R and is very hard to punish.

So can Kayle. And aside from the whole Devourer nonsense (which is another matter entirely), you don't hear people complaining about her. Hence the term 'Jack of all, master of none."

And to finish, Ekko might have more utility than other assassins, hell, other champions. But he's also the assassin with one of the lowest burst potentials. Just try to compare him to Rengar, Fizz, or even Ahri.

MAN OF INTELLECT6 votes

Give this man a cookie item 2054

Hard Penetrator3 votes

I dislike his cheap long range wave clear that can push waves even at very early lvls. 120 dmg for 50 mana that hits ALL MINONS? Lux is doing 60 dmg for 70mana Xerath 80dmg for 80 mana (granted he has mana granting passive). Still this kind of skill on melle assasin is nuts. I would even say, Ekko has better early waveclear and pushing power than Zed. That's nuts.

I dislike that his 3hit mechanic is tied with his passive and not with any of his skills like other champions. Vayne or Vi have to actually make a decision if they want more mobility, kiting/ganking potential (max Q) or more raw dmg (Max W). Ekko simply do not have to think or make any decisions because he will always max R>Q>E>W and still have really powerful punch on his 3rd hit. It is weird that they didn't switch up W passive with actual one. Maybe they were scared of ppl crying about similarity to zed passive on boards?

Davy Crockett2 votes

Agreed. I don't like playing full AP glass cannon ekko because his burst is really low compared to others. But in terms of a mini-bork, his W deals %health missing below 30% (something like that), so thats what he brings against tanks.

Håppy13 votes

I went against him top lane as Udyr, another overloaded champion. So it was Cheese vs Cheese. Holy shit, that was the most frustrating lane ever, I didn't kill him a SINGLE FUCKING TIME. He build tank. He bought a zhonyas to negate my tiger and then went tanky. Often times I'd stun him as he's ulting, and by the time the ult animation was over, he was moving again. Are you kidding me? Why does the duration continue through his animation? So much counterplay is available. Oh, fuck running away, that's impossible. He slows, he nukes your health with that 3-hit proc, he dashes and then blinks, he does everything Udyr can do but better.

I haven't found a champion besides Annie that can beat him. ANNIE. The point-and-click cc nuker. That's his counter. You need point-and-click nuke CC, and that's mostly been removed from the game. Ekko is fucking garbage, and he makes games unfun, on the level of Katarina and Nasus.

Lugg12 votes

I knew he was broken before he ever went live. You can't give a champion that many abilities and expect to be able to balance him.

General Murica10 votes

Another dumb thread upvoted on Gold5 & Below.

Orangesilk4 votes

Meanwhile Morde ADC has a 65% winrate on plat+ and the boards keep insisting he's balanced.

Messaiga8 votes

The problem of Ekko is that they tried designing him to be relevant, even when behind (by tacking on CC + tankiness). This is similar to the approach Yasuo was designed with (a melee carry that can be relevant when behind). He has a kit packed to the brink with CC, which frankly shouldn't really be there as an assassin. I'm ok with him being really difficult to kill from W and his R, but does he really need an AOE stun? His passive on-target CD is also quite short (3 seconds, and when Ekko is level 11 the duration of CC from his passive also lasts 3 seconds).

Ekko was a really, really cool concept but I feel like they gave him way too many tools to use, and then had to weaken his kit as a whole to compensate.

Guy Fox Teemo3 votes

Where did you get the fact that you think Yasuo is good when behind LOL, thats some bs right there.

AL0007 votes

~~same designer that designed darius, thresh, kal, zyra, etc..

yeah... pretty bad designer... should not create that kind of champion imho...~~

thank you very much for down-voting without reading below... ct would be very proud of you...

Only Play Darius25 votes

CT didn't design Ekko (although considering Ekko's kit, I don't blame you for thinking it was him).

It was actually Gypsylord Vi Jinx Gnar

AL0003 votes

i misunderstood... i thought it was ekko but actually it was yaso... my post is wrong...

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Bradford_'CertainlyT'_Wenban

Jbels4 votes

That's why he's more popular as a tank right? He's one of the shittiest AP assassins ever, dude.

WarlockLaw4 votes

He would probably be fairly balanced if they removed the passive portion of his w. His tank build gets by because it can keep smacking somebody for garunteed damage based on missing health

Salidfingers4 votes

His ultimate shouldn't do damage with a shield or shield with damage.

If he gets a second life from his ult he can continue to do damage and doesn't need it to do additional damage.

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

His ultimate shouldn't do damage with a shield or shield with damage.

If he gets a second life from his ult he can continue to do damage and doesn't need it to do additional damage.

I'd rather them completely shave the damage off his ult, put it into his basic ability AP scalings, and make the heal on his ult higher. I don't think an assassin should have an ultimate ability that can either get them out of a situation completely safe AND be able to nuke anyone that he chooses to dive and/or stun.

BroLane3 votes

Upvote because I want Nunu to be viable

ZzEslIolZQ3 votes

He's a gypsylord champ. People complain about certainlyT and rightfully so fuck that guy but gypsylord is basically certainlyT minus the mechanics. I don't think this idiot is capable of making a champion with just one passive or not have stacking as a mechanic.

Divewing3 votes

Ekko doesn't have enough damage to 100-0 reliably, hence the reason he is given all this. I've tried several builds/orders, including starting items, and I've given up trying to make a build that stacks huge AP numbers, I go Lich Bane into a 20% cdr mana item (normally Athenes), he just doesn't have damage before 5 items to really 100-0 anyone on equal footing. Without a rather hefty lead, I cannot 100-0 anyone with common sense, I have to land my ult and that never happens outside of skirmishes and team fights and even then it usually ends up on the tanks.

Landing the stun is also a pain because unless you're in brush, you probably have to start it off screen, which 9 times out of 10 involves using E to dash to a minion to enter the field before they leave it.

If Ekko is causing you such grief, there's at least 1 of several things happening.

  1. you don't have adequate vision
  2. you aren't respecting where his stun-field COULD come in from
  3. you aren't respecting his ultimate
  4. you're wasting cooldowns in lane that he can use as an opening for a brutal trade

Playing against Ekko is more your game to lose than his to win, it is so incredibly difficult to assassinate targets, and EVERY other assassin does it significantly easier. Ekko is a melee champion with enough burst to leave someone really low, but rarely enough to 100-0.

In my opinion, he should never have been labelled as an assassin, and instead a skirmisher, because that is what he is, he chips someone down by jumping on them with E, and throwing Q through them, using his passive MS bonus or his ultimate if necessary to then reset his fight, or just zhonyas, while he waits for cooldowns.

As for tank Ekko, it cuts most of the threat of sticking around after he has gone in. Ekko sticking around after he's thrown Q usually results in CC chaining (or even just 1 cc ability) into death, naturally though if he's tanky that's not exactly a problem (basically, I agree tank Ekko is stupid, albeit for likely different reasons).

No TL;DR, either read it all or downvote and move on, I don't care which

Cosmic Warper1 votes

{quoted}

Ekko doesn't have enough damage to 100-0 reliably, hence the reason he is given all this. I've tried several builds/orders, including starting items, and I've given up trying to make a build that stacks huge AP numbers, I go Lich Bane into a 20% cdr mana item (normally Athenes), he just doesn't have damage before 5 items to really 100-0 anyone on equal footing. Without a rather hefty lead, I cannot 100-0 anyone with common sense, I have to land my ult and that never happens outside of skirmishes and team fights and even then it usually ends up on the tanks.

Landing the stun is also a pain because unless you're in brush, you probably have to start it off screen, which 9 times out of 10 involves using E to dash to a minion to enter the field before they leave it.

If Ekko is causing you such grief, there's at least 1 of several things happening.

  1. you don't have adequate vision
  2. you aren't respecting where his stun-field COULD come in from
  3. you aren't respecting his ultimate
  4. you're wasting cooldowns in lane that he can use as an opening for a brutal trade

Playing against Ekko is more your game to lose than his to win, it is so incredibly difficult to assassinate targets, and EVERY other assassin does it significantly easier. Ekko is a melee champion with enough burst to leave someone really low, but rarely enough to 100-0.

In my opinion, he should never have been labelled as an assassin, and instead a skirmisher, because that is what he is, he chips someone down by jumping on them with E, and throwing Q through them, using his passive MS bonus or his ultimate if necessary to then reset his fight, or just zhonyas, while he waits for cooldowns.

As for tank Ekko, it cuts most of the threat of sticking around after he has gone in. Ekko sticking around after he's thrown Q usually results in CC chaining (or even just 1 cc ability) into death, naturally though if he's tanky that's not exactly a problem (basically, I agree tank Ekko is stupid, albeit for likely different reasons).

No TL;DR, either read it all or downvote and move on, I don't care which

I love how you got downvoted because people on the forums don't have any clue as to how playing against a champion works and mindlessly downvote and end up playing against said champion without actually thinking about HOW to play against them.

Divewing2 votes

I'm not bothered by it, I used to play him assassin style but I got ccd once and died, ignite doesn't give him enough to snowball reliably, so I just run TP to respond to fights elsewhere and help my team where I can. I get the impression these people haven't played Ekko, if so not very much.

Drakylon3 votes

Right now I think Ekko's shield is the only overbearing part of him. It has over a 100% AP ratio, and you can guarantee it to hit on you with minimal risk by just Zhonya's-ing inside the circle. Tune it down to something reasonable and he'll be at a decent spot. Although ult from fog is kind of annoying, since the ghost is invisible.

Crossette3 votes

If you don't like Ekko, play Lux.

Fucking snare him and ult him. He's gone.

Baron Perenolde3 votes

Gypsylord's champs are just as, if not more, annoying as any of CertainlyT's. Vi dominated the jungle FOREVER, Gnar is an overloaded piece of garbage who has everything in his kit, and Jinx... I don't want to talk about Jinx. I agree with an above poster too, do all of his champs have to have a stacking mechanic?

Sasogwa3 votes

Tbh, Ekko's kit is not one of an assassin. Delayed spells, crowd control,etc. He's an excellent peeler and provides a whole lot of defensive utility. Ekko doesn't really dive in that much, but he shits on people who try to do that on his team.

A Miss Fortune3 votes

I've said it a lot, but I don't think Ekko will ever live as a healthy, balanced champion. Riot failed at the start by releasing him with basically everything they could give him. Now that they nerfed a lot of his abilities, he significantly weaker, but he'll never be in the position he should be. Riot needs to flat out remove parts of his kit like his dash, or shield, or maybe the heal on his ultimate if they ever want him to be balanced, simply because his kit is so overloaded. Just nerfing Ekko by nerfing his abilities themselves will do nothing but slowly push him into a trash-tier champion, since his main problem is that he's overloaded.

TacoTheKitten3 votes

Let's face it. Ekko has more fucking CC than Leona. If someone has more cc than Leona while simultaneously being an assassin/tank, we have a major fucking issue XD. I'm not saying he's OP (his numbers have been nerfed down) but his kit is fundementally flawed and broken. To me, ekko is a sad reminder of a great champion concept that was completely ruined by the overloading of his kit. Good job Riot. Good job.

OJWasGuilty3 votes

Can confirm, almost 2 years later and you've earned my upvote.

MilfHuntUnitXJ92 votes

All I have to say is, when I am playing my main man Brand this shit Ekko champ makes me wanna cry molten tears. Its ridiculous how his kit works, I mean sure he probably counters Brand but... Come on.. wtf is that poke and ult ridiculous Dmg + instant HP regain. I agree with OP, his kit is a near flawless combination of Zed, Ori, Riven and Ahri

evpat2 votes

his q is easy to dodge man, i've eaten ekkos alive in lane. but, i do hate bruiser ekko. i saw that in top once and it wrecked in lane

iainB852 votes

LC$ Flashy Playz.

iTaLenTZ2 votes

Sad after a year this thread is still relevant

Darius Strada1 votes

All you say us true, just wanted to point out that his W stuns for 1.75 and not 2.25. He was nerfed long a go

iTaLenTZ2 votes

That is exactly the problem. Everything i said OVER 1 YEAR AGO is still true except some minor differences.

3K Zero2 votes

now 2 years still same bulls***

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