Just because a player has chosen support

TaoistMaster·Feb 23, 2016·53 votes·4,121 views

Doesn't mean that player has given up the right to choose their own champion.

ADC's seem to think they have the God given right to choose the champion their support plays as.

125 Comments

ZielmannFeb 23, 201611 votes

If I'm hovering Janna or Nami, but my ADC requests a tanky support, I'll gladly switch up to something else. If they're asking, I either assume they're more comfortable playing with that kind of support instead, or else the current team comp we have going just merits a tankier pick anyhow.

Reformed DunniFeb 23, 201614 votes

{quoted}

If I'm hovering Janna or Nami, but my ADC requests a tanky support, I'll gladly switch up to something else. If they're asking, I either assume they're more comfortable playing with that kind of support instead, or else the current team comp we have going just merits a tankier pick anyhow.

This, some ADC's are comfortable and have more success with tanky supports. Remember it isn't all about you either you and your ADC need to work together and make a compromise. I don't play support often, but I'm going to pick it up again and the support I pick factors by my ADC, their ADC, my team comp, the enemy team comp, and what my ADC is comfortable with.

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 24, 20166 votes

{quoted}

This, some ADC's are comfortable and have more success with tanky supports. **Remember it isn't all about you either **you and your ADC need to work together and make a compromise. I don't play support often, but I'm going to pick it up again and the support I pick factors by my ADC, their ADC, my team comp, the enemy team comp, and what my ADC is comfortable with.

Well, it might not be all about me, but at the end of the day, I'M playing that champion for 20+ minutes, and it's a game. If playing the type of support you'd want me to play is not fun to me, you're going to have to deal with the fact that I prefer poke/utility supports.

RocketRelmFeb 24, 20163 votes

So does that mean the support can say "nah, could you not play that ADC? Play this one, I work with it better" and expect it to work? It's not all about him, there needs to be a compromise.

Only Play DariusFeb 23, 20168 votes

They're asking for a tanky support because they don't have the skill necessary to last-hit minions item 3097

ZielmannFeb 23, 20162 votes

As the support, i wouldn't mind if they bought that themselves, too. Then we could use the execute twice as often!

Praetor NotoriasFeb 23, 20162 votes

You would end up constantly pushed into a tower which is a bad thing considering people don't know when to go back. But the base item will pay for itself relatively quickly.

AbyssphereFeb 23, 20167 votes

{quoted}

If I'm hovering Janna or Nami, but my ADC requests a tanky support, I'll gladly switch up to something else. If they're asking, I either assume they're more comfortable playing with that kind of support instead, or else the current team comp we have going just merits a tankier pick anyhow.

Have you ever told your ADC to pick an ADC that you work particularly well with? Obviously it's just sensible to try and create synergy in the bot lane but it's extremely one-sided when it's just "Pick a tank supp plz". I have never seen a support say "I'd like a pokey ADC if possible", for example.

ZielmannFeb 24, 20163 votes

Honestly, as a support main, I feel like there's a degree of selflessness required for the role. I need to be confident with several different supports, and comfortable playing with whatever ADC my lane mate wants to run. I cannot control whether or not the ADC I get placed with has a variety of champs in their pool, so it's my job to be ready for whatever the team or my adc (or both) needs.

AbyssphereFeb 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, as a support main, I feel like there's a degree of selflessness required for the role. I need to be confident with several different supports, and comfortable playing with whatever ADC my lane mate wants to run. I cannot control whether or not the ADC I get placed with has a variety of champs in their pool, so it's my job to be ready for whatever the team or my adc (or both) needs.

There's no reason you should think that, though. Obviously selflessness is necessary for a support but it's only essential for in-game decisions - buying supportive items, wasting gold on vision, sacrificing yourself to save a teammate worth more gold, etc. That's all stuff you need to be selfless for.

There's absolutely no reason that should extend to champion select, though. In terms of being as good at the game as possible, everyone should be comfortable playing a variety of champions and everyone should also be capable of playing well with a variety of champions. That applies to all roles though. You are absolutely right to have a diverse champion pool as a support because you have no control over your ADC, but the ADC should also try to have a diverse champion pool because they have no control over you.

Being a support main shouldn't instill a mindset of catering to the ADC at all times. There's no reason you should always be the one who has to compromise in champ select.

ZielmannFeb 24, 20161 votes

Who said I'm compromising, though? My four main picks for support would be Janna, Nami, Leona, or Taric. While I might be on a Janna kick as of late, it doesn't mean I'll selfishly take a support that my ADC isn't comfortable playing with, or leave the team without a tank, just because I feel like playing that support. I pick what the team needs.

If somebody tries to demand a repurposed mage support, like Annie or Brand, I'm not going to go out of my own comfort zone to accommodate them. What I'd do in that case is probably go with Nami since she's the most poke/damage oriented support in my pool.

Weasel KenseiFeb 25, 20162 votes

The support who is a tank will never be a real tank. Any team that leaves the tank role up to the support is dumb. There is no guarantee that bot lane wont be ganked stupid, or the enemy ADC/support wont have better coordination and turn it into a kill lane. Then, when the "tank support" is weak and way underfed, the team still dosnt have a tank.

Maybe the support will get enough gold to survive 3 hits from the enemy team and land some CC or cover for the carry... Any team that leaves their one tank up to the support though is just asking for it. Its a gamble, sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesnt.

A tank on support income probably is still going to get poped every fight if the enemy team has a solo lane tank top. Iv played tons of different supports, but there is a huge difference between solo top lane tank, and support tank in terms of being a front line.

ZielmannFeb 25, 20161 votes

I mean, the conversation is about switching to a tanky support, cause sometimes a team calls for that. Not sure where you see the claim that support tanks are equally as effective as tanks that get actual solo experience and income.

I do agree that it's risky to run with a support as your main tank, cause they're not going to have the same amount of raw tank stats as a regular tank. But dangit, if your team is loaded up with 4 high-damage threats, it certainly makes more sense to bring something in like a Leona who can take more of a hit than most of your allies, and also serve as a solid initiation tool so all your damage can follow up.

And really? If a tanky support can only "survive 3 hits from the enemy team and land some CC", then that person isn't playing that style of support properly at all...

Quackdratic DuckFeb 24, 20162 votes

The problem comes when it goes like this.

Sona "HI guys!"

Sona "Vayne, do you want something aggressive? Or tanky? What are your preferences? I can play Taric, Leona, Blitzcrank, Sona and Nami."

Vayne "TANK PLZ."

Vayne "PICK BRAUM."

Vayne "PLZ, OP STUN.

Sona "I dont have him."

Vayne "PICK BRAUM."

Sona "But-..."

Vayne "PICK BRAUM OR I FEED."

Sona "I-... Could take Ta-"

Vayne "PICK BRAUM."

"Im sorry. I dont know him. I'll just take Blitzcrank, because our team still needs a tank."

Vayne "N00B REPORTED USELESS KIDDD I %!$#^ YOUR MOM OMGGGG ITS GG SURR AT 20 REPORT SUPPORT I GO AP GO KILL YOURSELF"

KrigjerFeb 24, 201611 votes

Literally just had my adc tell me to play Soraka. I didn't even respond, just locked in what I had already intent-picked. He gave me a ... in chat. Proceeded to get him fed as hell and stomped myself.

It's not just support either- I'm sick and tired of other players telling strangers what to pick. 'No don't play that, this is better' 'No that champion sucks, play this instead'. Did we ask you what to play? No.

Hedgehog HustlerFeb 24, 20162 votes

I can't play anything except Poppy Nautilus Sion support because often there's no tank on my team and my adc is terrible at positioning, forcing me to peel for them every time I leave them unattended.

KillerKellFeb 24, 20161 votes

Umm... Braum. Leona. Thresh.

Hedgehog HustlerFeb 25, 20161 votes

I own none of those champions, because it excuses me from playing them at the request of others.

KillerKellFeb 26, 20161 votes

That's a rather flawed logic.

You don't own them simply so you don't have to play them when requested to?

You never have to play what is requested of you... so your point is already off base.
You know don't have those Champions when they would absolutely be the best pick for both yourself and the team.

Basically, you cut off your own nose to smite your face.

And then you complained you can 'only' play Poppy, Nautalus or Sion because there is no tank and your ADC can't position... well, you do that to yourself by not having the 3 Champions I already named. So it's only a problem because you created the problem.

KuboxFeb 24, 20162 votes

I'm having a similar problem. I'll start up a game thinking "I really feel like playing Sona/Zyra today" and then my whole team picks squishy champs and I'm just "Well, I guess Alistar's open".

I'm even using pick intent and even so no one bothers with a tank. I swear I need to learn to behave like a dick and just go through with my picks.

God of BagelsFeb 23, 20167 votes

I both ADC and Support a lot.

When I ADC I either go Corki or Kogmaw. Whenever i'm Corki I always ask for Leona/Blitz/Thresh just because I work well with them. I don't command or anything, just ask. If I'm Kogmaw I really don't care what they play, I'm going to win either way.

As support I pretty much only play Zilean tho. So my ADC can blow me if they dont like it.

charcharmunroFeb 23, 20161 votes

Zilean is the pretty general "I don't give a fuck" pick for anything, I find. S'why I play him mid whenever I get my secondary role and I'm not explicitly countered (IE, they have a Ziggs/Talon).

God of BagelsFeb 25, 20161 votes

Hmm, I really like Zilean because I feel he counters Udyr, who is OP in my elo right now. I see a wild Udyr charge from the bushes, I throw a slow on him, then stun, then slow again after he gets out of stun. Dead Udyr.

ModAttysu The PoroFeb 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=God of Bagels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJ2ERREA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-02-23T17:57:52.842+0000)

I both ADC and Support a lot.

When I ADC I either go Corki or Kogmaw. Whenever i'm Corki I always ask for Leona/Blitz/Thresh just because I work well with them. I don't command or anything, just ask. If I'm Kogmaw I really don't care what they play, I'm going to win either way.

As support I pretty much only play Zilean tho. So my ADC can blow me if they dont like it.

... what do you do on Kog. I can only play him mid but I wanna learn him ADC. >_< (I go full AP Kog mid)

No flash no lifeFeb 24, 20167 votes

The issue with going along with what the adc feels comfortable playing with or what the team needs, though, is that sometimes what the team's asking the support to play doesn't suit his/her playstyle. If the support has absolutely no idea how to play the type of champ his/her teammates prefer, then I'd think it's a better idea to let the support play something he/she knows how to play instead. Otherwise, you may end up seeing an alistar headbutting opponent adc to safety when your team's zed expensed everything to get to his target.

JbelsFeb 23, 20165 votes

Sorry dude, but on a team that has a not so tanky top, and a not so tanky jungle, we need a tank. Janna, Nami, Annie aren't going to cut it. Suck it up and play what the team needs. That's what ranked is about

RalanrFeb 23, 20169 votes

If the support won't play a tank then someone else should play a tank.

JbelsFeb 23, 20164 votes

{quoted}

If the support won't play a tank then someone else should play a tank.

I mean, I play a tank every game, sooo

RalanrFeb 23, 20162 votes

Same. Fun right?

ManiacalCoyoteFeb 24, 20162 votes

Nasus

God of BagelsFeb 23, 201611 votes

Uhhh, what? Why is it the support who has to be a tank. A tank is viable at every position besides ADC.

RalanrFeb 23, 20162 votes

Mid?

BetaDude40Feb 23, 20169 votes

Chogath

KnoyleFeb 23, 20162 votes

Blitzcrank I've seen this mofo work in mid too

AbyssphereFeb 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No. There are certain tanky mid laners but that doesn't mean that you can expect a mid laner to play one of them. The vast majority of the mid lane roster are squishy and you can't reliably expect your mid laner to play Cho'Gath or Vlad or Swain or whatever. In most situations asking for a tanky mid is asking for your mid laner to play a champion they're not experienced with and when that's the case you're better off with a full squishy team because at least then they'd know what they're doing.

You can expect a tank in top, jungle and support because if someone doesn't play a tank in any of those roles then they're probably a bit too specialised (personally I only play mage supports and that's a serious flaw in my champion pool) but in mid lane you're seriously gambling if you're relying on your mid being able to play a bulky mid laner.

BetaDude40Feb 24, 20166 votes

Dude, have you ever seen a Cho mid?

He just says "fuck you" to any assassin that attempts to bully him. Then he'll just sustain with his passive and stack armor to completely negate their purpose.

And if mid mains can only play one type of champion, then they are not people I want on my team regardless

TimewinderFeb 24, 20161 votes

ekko beats him

BetaDude40Feb 24, 20161 votes

That's because Ekko isn't an assassin anymore. And if anyone builds him glass cannon, then they will most likely lose

TimewinderFeb 24, 20161 votes

i build ekko glass cannon only when i play him except for ROA. it works really well in high platinum

God of BagelsFeb 25, 20161 votes

Yeah, Cho is very viable in mid with how he can punish assassins. Most mid laners laugh when I suggest they try Cho mid tho after they complain about there not being enough tanks on the team.

LintheFeb 23, 201612 votes

{quoted}

Sorry dude, but on a team that has a not so tanky top, and a not so tanky jungle, we need a tank. Janna, Nami, Annie aren't going to cut it. Suck it up and play what the team needs. That's what ranked is about

So only the support should "suck it up"?? But the not so tanky jungle need not "suck it up". And the not so tank top need not "suck it up".

Seems standard.

JbelsFeb 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So only the support should "suck it up"?? But the not so tanky jungle need not "suck it up". And the not so tank top need not "suck it up".

Seems standard.

If you read what I said, ranked is about picking what your team needs. From that, you can infer that if you notice that your team isn't going to have enough tankiness, you should pick a tank, top, jungle, support. It's not limited to the support role. But in a lot of cases, the support role can be the most important factor in deciding which team wins the game

XonraFeb 24, 20165 votes

{quoted}

If you read what I said, ranked is about picking what your team needs. From that, you can infer that if you notice that your team isn't going to have enough tankiness, you should pick a tank, top, jungle, support. It's not limited to the support role. But in a lot of cases, the support role can be the most important factor in deciding which team wins the game

If your team isn't picking what the team needs, then maybe they shouldn't expect someone else to.

You don't get to just pick whatever you want with complete and total disregard for what the team needs, then tell someone ELSE what they should be picking because you prefer to pick selfishly. That's when I would ignore you completely, and likely mute you in game, because I'm now assuming you are also one of those guys to flame me in game for "taking your kills".

It is the job of everyone the entire time to look for those roles, and that includes the first pick top or jungler picking a tank as well, and not picking your Lee sin and fiora, THEN getting annoyed someone else is also picking what they want to play. You don't get to tell last pick, regardless of role, to "be a team player" and "pick what the team needs" just to fill in the holes that everyone else ignored because they were selfish.

JbelsFeb 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If your team isn't picking what the team needs, then maybe they shouldn't expect someone else to.

You don't get to just pick whatever you want with complete and total disregard for what the team needs, then tell someone ELSE what they should be picking because you prefer to pick selfishly. That's when I would ignore you completely, and likely mute you in game, because I'm now assuming you are also one of those guys to flame me in game for "taking your kills".

It is the job of everyone the entire time to look for those roles, and that includes the first pick top or jungler picking a tank as well, and not picking your Lee sin and fiora, THEN getting annoyed someone else is also picking what they want to play. You don't get to tell last pick, regardless of role, to "be a team player" and "pick what the team needs" just to fill in the holes that everyone else ignored because they were selfish.

And guess what happens to those people who selfishly pick and think they can just carry games with those picks? They lose, they drag other people down, and they drag themselves down. If you want to actually climb, you need to pick something that benefits your team. If you can carry on it by just being a presence on the map, that's just fine. The people who don't do this are doomed to stay in low elo

XonraFeb 24, 20164 votes

{quoted}

And guess what happens to those people who selfishly pick and think they can just carry games with those picks? They lose, they drag other people down, and they drag themselves down. If you want to actually climb, you need to pick something that benefits your team. If you can carry on it by just being a presence on the map, that's just fine. The people who don't do this are doomed to stay in low elo

If 4 people picked selfishly, and they are expecting the one person to play as a "team player" then that isn't going to work, and expecting it is a bit ridiculous, is my point. You are preaching to the choir with the whole "teamwork op" line, but that isn't really the point I was making, because I don't disagree with that.

The point is, you can't pick nothing but carries (which is why happens rather often in ranked), then expect last pick, regardless of role, to play x way because they didn't want to.

also in "low elo" I'd say this whole conversation is irrelevant. Being a tank means nothing in bronze (as I'm learning this season for the first time, thanks to me not doing great in my promos). You have to carry and be a bit more selfish because people don't know how to play as a team. Going in as a tank means either you go in and people follow, or you go in and half the team recalls, or randomly focuses Volibear or something equally frustrating. it's why I play Sona support and go ham, because you can set up plays, but you can't expect it as most people aren't on the same page, and sometimes same book.

Around high gold, yeah I'd say team play starts becoming important, as people are less flailing apes (on both teams) and you have to do more than "k 1 tower is down, everyone group mid for the next 30 minutes".

Supreme Senpai69Feb 23, 20163 votes

I'd much rather have a Janna or a Nami on my team. Make the top laner or jungler go tank.

XonraFeb 24, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJ2ERREA,comment-id=00010005,timestamp=2016-02-23T23:40:58.108+0000)

I'd much rather have a Janna or a Nami on my team. Make the top laner or jungler go tank.

This is my thought as well. I'd much rather have a tank in a position that will get the gold to be tanky, and have a support that is able to peel and give some good utility. I don't want my main tank to be the guy who is 1-2 items behind everyone trying to be a main tank that will just be easy killed as a front liner because he simply doesn't have the gold as a support to get the stats they need.

Unlike a top laner who can get enough armor/mr/hp to matter, or a jungler who fits a similar set of criteria. I think having tank supports can be good if it is for a reason, but not if they reason is only "no one else wanted to tank, so you are our only tank, good luck" because you are setting yourself up for failure with that.

RogueWillFeb 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Sorry dude, but on a team that has a not so tanky top, and a not so tanky jungle, we need a tank. Janna, Nami, Annie aren't going to cut it. Suck it up and play what the team needs. That's what ranked is about

well why not the top or jungle pick a tanky character? Hell! Why don't you just play a tanky ADC and go Urgot for all I care.

XonraFeb 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

well why not the top or jungle pick a tanky character? Hell! Why don't you just play a tanky ADC and go Urgot for all I care.

Which is funny because last time I suggested "I'll just go Urgot, he can be tanky", my team was pooping babies as if I suggested I play adc Galio or something. Is why I don't ask people what they want or take advice (unless I know it to be honest and sincere and not telling me what to pick), because everyone has a different opinion of strong and weak that shifts to different sides.

LadyRenlyFeb 23, 20163 votes

If you are last pick, you can't really complain. Be a team player. If you're higher up on the list, then sure. At the end of the day you can play whatever, but let's be real here, if you have no real front line you're going to struggle against an enemy team that has Lee, Braum and Malphite lol