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I'm getting quite sick of this Cinderhulk meta

Diananmen Square··2 votes·1,032 views

I'm getting sick of this Cinderhulk tank jungler thing.

Yes, I agree that it is good that teamfights are not full of assassins one-shotting squishies left and right, but it's really frustrating that the enemy jungler beats you simply because they buy Cinderhulk. Example, on Udyr it used to be Devourer, now it is Cinderhulk. Vi used Warrior, now it is Cinderhulk. Jarvan used Warrior , now it is Cinderhulk.

You tried to improve jungle variety, but instead you made jungle a tank-only role. Bruisers, mages and assassins can no longer compete with any tank at all. Maybe Diana is the only AP jungler that is relevant, but I don't encounter many. And when I do, they buy tanky items.

The other 3 jungle items are completely out of the table and outclassed by Cinderhulk. I want to be able to play Rengar more viably, instead of getting beaten simply because the enemy got Cinderhulk and I got Warrior.

21 Comments

AyRe CoNteMpT3 votes

well, i play shyvana and nocturne jungle and i play them both with devourer and i go and duel and punish every cinderhulk user easy no problem. cinderhulk really is a good item, but it isnt outstanding. there is like no "cinderhulk meta" right now, hell there isnt even a "tank meta". these are really just phrases made up by either LCS commentators but more likely noobs who just flat out disregard the fluid evolution of gameplay.

right now, its a pretty healthy state of the game with all sorts of builds and champion classes being equally viable. even tho the more champions riot releases, the less our current 6 bans cover all of the cancer they throw out, but its still the most balanced patch to the date.

khorney2 votes

{quoted}

well, i play shyvana and nocturne jungle and i play them both with devourer and i go and duel and punish every cinderhulk user easy no problem. cinderhulk really is a good item, but it isnt outstanding. there is like no "cinderhulk meta" right now, hell there isnt even a "tank meta". these are really just phrases made up by either LCS commentators but more likely noobs who just flat out disregard the fluid evolution of gameplay.

right now, its a pretty healthy state of the game with all sorts of builds and champion classes being equally viable. even tho the more champions riot releases, the less our current 6 bans cover all of the cancer they throw out, but its still the most balanced patch to the date.

Agreed

Provengreil1 votes

Better than assassins. Also no one uses devour because riot made it sub optimal in comparison to warrior/cinder (magus is being replaced and I think runeglaive will still not measure up to those two as a whole).

Diananmen Square1 votes

That is true. It is better than assassins in most aspects, but I feel like jungle lacks variety, which was Riot's goal for this season.

Everytime I watch LCS or play a match I always see a tank jungler on each team. Fighters are no longer a thing in the jungle, and to me i find that extremely unpleasant and boring to play against.

Provengreil1 votes

On the LCS, enh. The tanks have to go somewhere, and cho aside it's never mid. Support is slim pickings for tanks, they have to be able to function as tanks without gold and with sightstone, and the toplane ones have to be able to handle lane swaps, which limits options. But so long as you can make your first clear or two without falling too far behind, those weaknesses don't apply to jungle.

khorney1 votes

{quoted}

Better than assassins. Also no one uses devour because riot made it sub optimal in comparison to warrior/cinder (magus is being replaced and I think runeglaive will still not measure up to those two as a whole).

Runeglaive is crap your talking about a item that has half the ap and CD . and devorour is the same thing as cinderhaulk both are meant for late game

Provengreil1 votes

Ignoring fiddlesticks, who really doesn't need the help, name one AP champion in the jungle that will be slowed down in clear times by runeglaive. Honestly, aside from fiddles, I never even see magus.

I honestly expect this to bring a few builds or even entire champions into the meta, and make a few off picks though probably not optimal. It won't be overpowering and it SHOULDN'T be overpowering, but that's the point.

Vistha Kai1 votes

That doesn't mean they should just smite (ironic) an item.

Sure, it will bring new picks into the jungle but limit those already present.

I'd rather have +10% CDR than to have some wacky IBG on Diana.

khorney1 votes

Cinder hulk for 1 is over rated only sej truly does it work for . I for 1 like to use zac and I get magus and sunfire cape a lot better then cinderhaulk. I'll take the little bit of hp loss for armor

Provengreil1 votes

Rammus Nautilus Would like a word.

khorney1 votes

{quoted}

Rammus Nautilus Would like a word.

They can get magus enchantment not really needed to get cinderhaulk.

Provengreil1 votes

Nautilus does more damage with a shield that lasts, and it's strength is based on max HP. you can go damage....or go tank and get damage anyway. Plus damage over time for your longer stay in the fight to deal more damage with.

khorney1 votes

{quoted}

Nautilus does more damage with a shield that lasts, and it's strength is based on max HP. you can go damage....or go tank and get damage anyway. Plus damage over time for your longer stay in the fight to deal more damage with.

yes as i stated its meant for sej more so then anyone else in the game. how ever you can for go cinder hulk and get magus and sunfire cape . because the 20% cd and almost 100ap is pretty legit

Provengreil1 votes

leave magus at home, man. get cinderhulk, boots, get your CDR from a frozen heart, righteous glory for teamwide followup on your ult, I still like warmogs next, and round it off with an MR or another armor item as necessary. still usually second or third in damage and you just. don't. die. While you put down all of the peel in the world, because you're still there to do so.

Have you ever ever even PLAYED nautilus?

khorney1 votes

{quoted}

leave magus at home, man. get cinderhulk, boots, get your CDR from a frozen heart, righteous glory for teamwide followup on your ult, I still like warmogs next, and round it off with an MR or another armor item as necessary. still usually second or third in damage and you just. don't. die. While you put down all of the peel in the world, because you're still there to do so.

Have you ever ever even PLAYED nautilus?

i play zac so ......... have you played agiasnt a ap varus .... watch u get 100 -0 hp in 2 sec stack all the hp u want and get melted twice as fast

Provengreil1 votes

1: that wasn't a yes. Neither of these people are nautilus.

2: Varus is supposed to deal tons of damage, low CDs are typically good for that and AP has always been viable on him.

3: unlike zac, nautilus doesn't actually stop a whole team from acting for his entire engage, he just keeps everyone right where they are for, like, forever. The return damage will come in fast and hard. You need the shield up as long as possible, just stay alive and in their face, peel anyone trying to pass you, and let your team do the heavy lifting. Zac does a knock up followed by a knock back, followed by restoring chunks of health after the return damage begind, doing a weird sort of drain tanking and benefitting more heavily from AP than naut.

There's also build path to consider. Early CDR is useful on literally everyone, of course, but while naut needs to pump his shield with HP, zac can get away with the early CDR for stronger ganks(depending on blob pickups and lane partner cc, 3 unstable matters isn't out of the question). Naut is more binary in that most of the time the gank will fail or succeed in one rotation anyway, so he needs more shield for more damage for more, healthier clears.

Jeije1 votes

The thing is most Cinderhulk users fall prey to strong early game junglers (meaning high mobility and damage). Though Lee Sin and Nidalee have fallen out of favor, they are still more than capable of rushing Lv3 and hunting down a weak early game jungler, killing them, and removing them from the game for at least 15 minutes; however, if pressure is let up, and the Cinderhulk user is allowed to farm, gank, or whatever, the strong early jungler's weakness starts to show.

Before 20 minutes: Warrior/Magus > Cinderhulk After 30 minutes: Cinderhulk > Warrior/Magus

There's only a tank meta if you allow them to matter.

khorney1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is most Cinderhulk users fall prey to strong early game junglers (meaning high mobility and damage). Though Lee Sin and Nidalee have fallen out of favor, they are still more than capable of rushing Lv3 and hunting down a weak early game jungler, killing them, and removing them from the game for at least 15 minutes; however, if pressure is let up, and the Cinderhulk user is allowed to farm, gank, or whatever, the strong early jungler's weakness starts to show.

Before 20 minutes: Warrior/Magus > Cinderhulk After 30 minutes: Cinderhulk > Warrior/Magus

There's only a tank meta if you allow them to matter.

its only matters if you stack hp then you seen vayn on the enmy team and see her laugh maliciouly at your stupid foolish mistake for doing more harm then good on silver bolts

Erockandroll1 votes

Keep in mind that Cinderhulk Scales late while Warrior is an Early game Item. Vi and Jarven can pick Either one depending when he wants to get their powerspikes. And that's perfectly fine. The other thing is, Tanks stats are pretty catch 22 on anyone who isn't a Glass cannon. And Building Glass cannon as the Jungler Really doesn't work.

Devourer is just piss poor. BotRK provides pretty much always provides more damage on hit. At a 1000 health BotRK would do 80 damage on hit, which Devourer would require 60 stacks to match that. An AS Bruiser is better to get Cinderhulk as their Jungle Item and Use BotRK for sustain, dueling power, and main damage. Assuming that they don't already have plenty of damage in their kit. (hey Olaf, hey Voli)

BluePolarizer1 votes

I almost always get Devourer on AS bruisers because its cheaper to buy a big ticket tank item with devourer than it is to buy a relatively weak early game tank item then go damage.

For the gold of item 3709 item 3153 item 1001 which makes you very squishy in mid-game teamfights, you can get item 3710item 3143 item 3111 which gives you slightly lower damage but makes you way tankier (70 more armor, 150 more HP, 25 more MR, tenacity) and better able to use your base stats to snowball. If you get snowballing either through kills or assists, devourer starts getting extremely gold efficient (something like 200% gold efficiency with 30 stacks, which is very conservative; I usually end up with 60-80 stacks).

Once devourer doesn't do relevant damage anymore and you are tanky enough, go BoRK as your last item.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

im sick of only being able to play 4 "meta tanks" ( 11 total who are designed to always go tanky and require a higher skill level to play) whereas theres literaly every adc/mid laner /damage dealer top laner to worry and build around.

you people complain about only a handful of champions because it upsets your "i duel and 1v1 my laner 100% of the time because of OP mechanics riven/leblanc/zed/fizz whatever champ" abuse that they are a great duelist and a 1v1er and cry about team fights because they have AoE CC.

newsflash, the game is about destroying the enemy nexus, not hyper inflate KDA and farm gold.

so what if they pick a "cinderhulk" champion, they planned on focusing the late game, making it last beyond 20mins before its already 2 kills to 18kills, and coming back and winning the team fight scenario, they bank on their laners not falling too far behind and they decimate in the 5v5.

theres nothing wrong with the playstyle, you people only complain about things you dont like to see, its perfectly balanced, you have the early game ad, you are going to win early, and if you dont, that lee sin on your side doesn't seem so relevant when a sejuani lands her skill shot ultimate on your adc and midlaner while bodyblocking lee's Q so you cant dive our backline.

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