Utility supports need buffs

Diananmen Square·Aug 8, 2015·87 votes·5,786 views

TL;DR: Title.

It's getting boring in bot lane that it's either , , , or ( too) that are getting picked.

There were new meta supports rising, such as and , but they share a thing in common.

They are tanky supports. Of those 8 supports I listed, only Janna is a utility support. The other 7 are tank-supports that are just good because of their CC and tankiness.

Utility supports such as Sona show to be pretty weak compared to these, and I believe they should get buffed alongside in some way.

169 Comments

OperationDEEZ1Aug 8, 201569 votes

Thresh is crowding out pretty much every utility support in the game right now.

FiskAug 8, 20157 votes

Honestly, I don't think thresh really is crowding the meta honestly. I think utility supports really just have a couple of major issues that makes them pretty bad. First, they aren't tanky. This makes their lanes pretty vulnerable to all in champions or jungler ganks. And once they fall behind they get instantly burst by fed champs so they tend to fall even further behind (unlike something like alistair who can be tanky almost no matter what). Second most lack easy to land accessible cc (like a thresh hook or flay). Nami, janna and bard actually do have this type of cc which is why you see them occasionally. But sona has no hard cc except her ult. Same with soraka and a lot of the others. They are getting better because itemization buffs (hello ardent censer/zekes/banner) but their lane remains undeniably weak, especially to ganks and the ap support item is relatively bad (especially the fully upgraded version in comparison to the other support items). Tl;dr squishy supports suck when they are behind and most of them lack quick, easy cc outside ults.

IcyPepperAug 8, 201519 votes

I dunno, his 39% pickrate seems to suggest he's a real top-tier pick.

Maybe that's not quite crowding out, but he's certainly dominating pick-wise.

Rew711Aug 8, 20152 votes

Well, I wish that Zilean could get some buffs to his kit. All he does is:

[P] I give you (a small) bonus EXP if you gain some and I'm near.

[Q] I deal tons of damage. (+W: I deal way more damage and stun to show I can support somehow)

[W] I take 10 seconds of one of my abilities rather than just make them usable again.

[E] I can speed you up, slow them down, or just speed myself up for 2 and a half seconds. (+W: I can raise the time I use my E)

[R] I can revive you if you die

meanwhile...

Bard I'm technically a utility support. I do give back life but only have one damage spell. My passive though gives my bonus damage, bonus slow, and area effect (and faster leveling and faster mana regen).

Leona I'm just like a utility support, yet I'm a tank. I can give bonus damage to my allies if I land a spell. I have stuns, and slows all in my kit.

Lulu I'm of great utility. I also allow bonus damage, slows and stuff. But my ultimate can slow those melees or tanks near me and can knock them up. I also give a bunch of health to my ally.

Zilean Hi, I can stun every once in a while. I can speed you up and slow down nearby enemies. Did I mention I could revive?

(Anybody notice how Zilean's kit can be summed up in this small amount of time while every other support has way more I left out?)

Zilean can have a longer stun; like make it 1/1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8 seconds long. And his W should at least for now reduce nearby allies cool downs by a little bit; by 2/4/6/8/10 seconds. And his E should work on both him and the ally while making the case on allies last 3 seconds long. This isn't complicated and its not OP.

PinkieAug 8, 20157 votes

Zilean can have a longer stun; like make it 1/1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8 seconds long. And his W should at least for now reduce nearby allies cool downs by a little bit; by 2/4/6/8/10 seconds. And his E should work on both him and the ally while making the case on allies last 3 seconds long. This isn't complicated and its not OP.

Annie Burst is increased by nearly 50% and can chain stuns. Morgana Can chain 3 snares together; 4 if Zilean has sufficient cdr and adds his stun to the mix. Jayce Can fire 2 accelerated Qs. Ashe Warwick Malphite Lissandra Now all have a 20 second cooldown on their ults when with Zilean .

Zilean is pretty balanced but underwhelming. The only change he needs is to his passive.

Bouncemaster ZacAug 8, 201517 votes

{quoted}

is crowding out pretty much every utility support in the game right now.

He crowds out basically every support, as he's almost (almost) objectively the best support in any and every composition.

Mandang0Aug 8, 201526 votes

Honestly, I think item 3302 is the problem.

Consider the rock/paper/scissors of support types: all-in beats sustain, sustain beats poke, poke beats all-in. However, when the all-in supports buy relic shield, they provide sustain via the procs, sustain that counters to the class that counters all-in: poke. Just think about how hard it is to get poke to stick to anyone in bottom lane - the ADC can lifesteal back up easily and the support just buys pots if they need it. This not only devalues poke support, but it also devalues sustain supports (beyond the obvious fact that all-in supports make their lives hard too).

Utility ratios being a complete failure didn't help much either.

UPfreelyAug 9, 20152 votes

honestly i see alot of tanky supports picking up item 3301 as it's better in alot of situations and scales better into lategame teamfighting. also generally offers more gold/sustain though more selfish early.

It Hertz When IPAug 8, 201511 votes

I'd like to see Soraka get some love, ever since Riot decided that sustain supports aren't fun she hasn't had that great a time.

Fashion MageAug 9, 20153 votes

I'd rather Soraka be left the way she is. I'm pretty sure Riot is eager to nerf her into oblivion at the slightest chance; I don't want to give them any incentive. :>

TheI3igDaddyAug 8, 201511 votes

You know who REALLY needs buffs as a utility support?

Zilean. Zilean

Lulu could also use some buffs, but she's very fickle to balance because nobody wants her in a solo lane.

I feel bad that Sona's been nerfed repeatedly, but at the same time I'm wary about giving her buffs. Maybe if they actually made her heal and speed boost decent spells, and took off some of her Q damage, maybe that can work.

TheRainInSpainAug 9, 20154 votes

At this point, Zilean needs a Sion-level rework. His kit is very outdated and frankly plain stupid. You get a pathetic experience buff, get to play a minigame with the CD of his spells, and the only thing that makes him fantastic also makes him a one trick pony. His bomb got neutered in the wake of Rito's Targeted Ability Tiericide, and though the stun is kinda cool, it feels like a band aid solution.

TheI3igDaddyAug 9, 20153 votes

While the ability got neutered, it needed to lose the targeted aspect of it. Not solely for just a single Q on an enemy, but his old QWQ could be applied very quickly. The problem is that it worked because it was his only damaging spell.

Now, he's just extremely unreliable to do anything other than speed / slow and ult allies.

He needs a moderate rework, but probably not Sion / Poppy level. The time bombs are cool, Rewind is cool (well, it was when it could reduce his ult's CD), and his E and R are pretty damn obvious for a time mage. He has serious POTENTIAL, but currently he's weak as fuck everywhere. He's squishy, he has little damage, and his unreliable utility doesn't make up for it. Oh yeah, and the passive. He needs a new one.

Other than that, he can keep his skills. Maybe he gets a cap on his bombs, like Corki's ultimate, and his bombs can be thrown down faster.

ShadowParkerAug 9, 20152 votes

Zilean only needs his targeting on his q fixed and a new passive. After that he'd be totally fine. He does not need that much of a rework.

KarlyrAug 8, 20158 votes

You forgot Nami and Bard in your list mate. They are both used quite a lot.

Reason why you don't see them in LCS is just becasue they don't doesn't bring an "hard" engage. Janna is played because of her "Free B.F. Sword".

Nami is pure disengage, Bard is a double edge sword. I'm playing Nami quite a bit and bard I've seen a few half gods in solo queue.

Aeolian MelodiesAug 8, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You forgot Nami and Bard in your list mate. They are both used quite a lot.

Reason why you don't see them in LCS is just becasue they don't doesn't bring an "hard" engage. Janna is played because of her "Free B.F. Sword".

Nami is pure disengage, Bard is a double edge sword. I'm playing Nami quite a bit and bard I've seen a few half gods in solo queue.

Janna is played for her ability to peel, interrupt dashes, and reset a teamfight
The champ with double AoE knock up is pure disengage??? LOL

Aeolian MelodiesAug 8, 20157 votes

All the support you listed are utility-oriented. Just because they're tanky (which Thresh isn't really by nature, it's just the builds) doesn't mean their utility and CC isn't their bread and butter.

ZephyrDrakeAug 8, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hlJ4v56L,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-08T16:21:13.863+0000)

All the support you listed are utility-oriented. Just because they're tanky (which Thresh isn't really by nature, it's just the builds) doesn't mean their utility and CC isn't their bread and butter.

they are tank supports, tanks have utility. Supports like Sona Soraka Nami Bard are also utility based (to varying degrees) but they don't offer much when compared to all the tank ones who just rush in your face CC you to death while being tanky enough to survive long enough to do what they need to do and just bully the hell out of sustain and poke supports. I have used my entire mana bar as Karma on some of these tank supports and they just shrug it off like it was nothing.

Match-ups between sustain/poke supports and tank ones is heavily tilted towards the tank ones no matter what, something needs to change so that sustain/poke supports at least stand a chance against tank ones without them needing to get an early lead

TheRainInSpainAug 9, 20151 votes

The farthest you can probably break things down is healer, poke, and tank supports, with a secondary attribute of none or one of the others not picked as a primary attribute. Thresh would be a pure tank support with a kit focused around blocking enemy engages and disengaging if the fight is bad.

Aeolian MelodiesAug 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The farthest you can probably break things down is healer, poke, and tank supports, with a secondary attribute of none or one of the others not picked as a primary attribute. Thresh would be a pure tank support with a kit focused around blocking enemy engages and disengaging if the fight is bad.

"pure tank support"

has no natural armor/MR growth

Ariel the CruelAug 9, 20152 votes

has no natural armor/MR growth

At 123 souls, Thresh surpasses Taric in passive Armor. This is reasonably attainable in a game.

FistOfSharkieshaAug 8, 20156 votes

It's odd because mage supports such as Karma, Lulu, and Zyra have higher winrates in a solo lane (mid, top). Their utility is appreciated but they need several items to function.

The reason is that nearly all tanks rely on their base damage or CC, while mages have scaling CC and utility, and rely on AP to do any damage at all. Karma's self heal is effected by AP and she needs CDR items to be effective because she's not a 1 hit wonder like Thresh or Blitzcrank. Lulu's utility directly scales with AP. She needs to be fed to function, which is impossible as a support. Sona, Nami, Soraka healing is all effected by AP, and gated by mana regen and CDR.

Tanks perform an action once or twice and it results in a kill or saving your carry. Mage supports have to try over and over again. They poke, slow, shield repeatedly until they're either oom or dead.

tl;dr Tanks don't really sacrifice anything for their utility and survivability except maybe a bit of poke. Their engages are almost universally better, and they don't explode in seconds without accomplishing anything like mage supports do.

Soda PopkillskiAug 8, 20154 votes

Thing is: Their scalings are so pathetic that taking damage items (even though they need them due to how it makes their healing/shielding etc useful in the late-game) is next to nothing, thus supports that DONT need damage items do much better.

Monsta MooAug 8, 20154 votes

Doesn't help much that item 3092 is currently disabled

ZephyrDrakeAug 8, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't help much that is currently disabled

wouldn't matter, that item is bad. Just save money for better AP items while keeping it a item 3303 instead

MatezoideAug 8, 20154 votes

It is funny because Thresh has just as much utility as the actual ''Utility Supports''

manbearswineAug 8, 201514 votes

{quoted}

It is funny because Thresh has just as much utility as the actual ''Utility Supports''

Not really.

He has more.

PokladnicaZlaAug 9, 20154 votes

Honestly I don't understand RIOT.They don't want Utility support to be annoying/OP in other lanes(such as Lulu top),so why not cut the damage scaling and buff their utility scaling(heals/shields,AA amplifier/MS boosts..). ?

Take Nami as example.Why not cut the scaling on her Q&R,but buff her heal,damage buff on E or Passive scaling? More utility,less damage on utility abilities.Utility scaling should be a thing,it should be the identity of utility supports.

CrazedPorcupineAug 9, 20152 votes

They tried to do that, which is why Nami's Passive MS scales with AP, why kayle, Lulu MS buffs scale with AP, and why pre-rework soraka's heal's bonus armorscaled with AP as well as Janna's E bonus AD scales with AP.

The problem is, the utility scaling isn't high enough to feel good.

PokladnicaZlaAug 9, 20152 votes

How about further decreasing damage scaling and increasing utility scaling?

CrazedPorcupineAug 9, 20153 votes

The problem is, if Utility scaling is too strong (Ala Janna's W snare when she hits 100% slow) then you get crazy abuse cases where they either are picked to solo lane so they can get lots of AP (Lulu when the Utility scalings were really high on her and pre-rework soraka and her AP scaling MR shred) or never picked at all because providing lots of damage is also really desirable.

Penguin EclipseAug 9, 20154 votes

The biggest buff they could make to utility supports right now is nerfing item 3302 relic shield. It is supposed to be a gold item. So why is a tier-1 item providing health to laning partners? The Talisman does not affect teammates until tier 3. Frostqueen never does.

Braum isn't supposed to be a healer. He shouldn't be able to become one by spending 365 gold.

Silents429Aug 8, 20153 votes

What utility supports do we actually have? You also forgot Nami and Bard get played often to.

But utility supports naturally don't work that well in a role where they get less gold, tanks excel at this so naturally they will be the preferred choice.

We also shouldn't buff other supports just because of popularity all the champions with a main role as support can support just fine right now.

CasterGilgameshAug 8, 20153 votes

he means Soraka Sona and Nami since these supports were reworked(nerfed to the ground) hard minus nami she's just nerfed lucky for nami players shes getting some buffs to her utility

Silents429Aug 8, 20151 votes

Soraka has an AOE silence that turns into a root, as well as tons of healing, Sona has a heal, whatever her ult is, movement speed buff and shield.

They aren't suffering. They can still freely use their utility.

only zhuleAug 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Soraka has an AOE silence that turns into a root, as well as tons of healing, Sona has a heal, whatever her ult is, movement speed buff and shield.

They aren't suffering. They can still freely use their utility.

Have you seen Sona's heal? the thing is a joke early game. Assuming you look at rank 1, 30 hp (+20% ap) heal on you and 1 ally for 80 mana. Taric gives double the heal for 20 less mana. I'd love to argue the shield makes it worthwhile but the thing lasts for such a short time that it's often fallen off by the time an enemy would have targeted your ally. As for her movement speed bonus 10% movement speed buff for 1.5 seconds (Allies) on a 12 second cooldown is VERY weak.

Silents429Aug 9, 20151 votes

Not every single support in the game does or should be good early on, late Soraka is such a menace to deal with some teams actually have to focus her or she causes so many issues for whoever she is against.

Why is it fair to make her strong all throughout the game? Tank supports run the issue of simply not being tanky, and having to be sparing with their CC

only zhuleAug 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not every single support in the game does or should be good early on, late Soraka is such a menace to deal with some teams actually have to focus her or she causes so many issues for whoever she is against.

Why is it fair to make her strong all throughout the game? Tank supports run the issue of simply not being tanky, and having to be sparing with their CC

I don't need her to be strong through out the entire game, i would however like her to have a reasonable cost on her heal in the early game. 80 mana is insanely high for a spell that heals for 30-40 hp, and provides a shield that disappears often before you notice it was there to begin with.

The issue with comparing it to the hard CC that most tanks has is that you often don't have to land those more then twice. If your playing a tanky support and you land a stun, provided your ADC doesn't totally miss the chance, you are going to get a lot of damage in maybe even a kill. But let's assume you don't get the kill, your target is super damaged and has to either use up all their healing stuff or play super passive for the next couple mins. If you land a second CC chances are you just secured a kill or two. Basically land a spell twice in less then 3 mins and you get a kill. With champions like Sona, you have to keep popping in and out of combat doing little ticks of damage each time. You are likely looking at having to hit the enemy champions a dozen plus times to really have a lasting effect. So basically i need to land 3 to 8 times as many spells on you to have the same effect that you get from one ability.

Silents429Aug 9, 20152 votes

Her heal scales off of the missing HP of whoever she heals, it's use shines during fights where it matters most anyway, because she hits a point where she is out healing other supports.

And the minimum about of health she heals is low, that isn't the total though. It's a base +20% AP + 0.5% missing HP on a 10 second cooldown, I will budge and say the mana costs are unreasonable at all stages of the game, but her heal is very effective, especially when tied with a small shield to take an extra hit for no cost.

Tanks do have an easier time in lane because they are designed to work well with small budgets, it really shouldn't come off as a shock to people that most supports are tanks, and complaining that that's the case is ridiculous, If a tank support misses their CC this is an ample 10-15 second window for the enemy laner to engage or get safe harass off.

ZephyrDrakeAug 9, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Her heal scales off of the missing HP of whoever she heals, it's use shines during fights where it matters most anyway, because she hits a point where she is out healing other supports.

And the minimum about of health she heals is low, that isn't the total though. It's a base +20% AP + 0.5% missing HP on a 10 second cooldown, I will budge and say the mana costs are unreasonable at all stages of the game, but her heal is very effective, especially when tied with a small shield to take an extra hit for no cost.

Tanks do have an easier time in lane because they are designed to work well with small budgets, it really shouldn't come off as a shock to people that most supports are tanks, and complaining that that's the case is ridiculous, If a tank support misses their CC this is an ample 10-15 second window for the enemy laner to engage or get safe harass off.

yes it's ridiculous that tank supports completely outshine every single other support not named Janna right now. They miss their CC and they get slightly annoyed by some harass sometimes but yet when they hit a single one it's more often than not (assuming the ADC is not braindead and actually follows) it's a flash out of the enemy, maybe a kill or leaving the enemy completely zoned out due to how low that one CC took them.

Sona's heal doesn't get all that much stronger, it's at most a 165 + 0.3 AP ratio so while ok it's not that great, specially with the mana costs attached to it. The shield doesn't even last 2 seconds and is very weak until lvl 16 in which it turns out to be ok

only zhuleAug 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Her heal scales off of the missing HP of whoever she heals, it's use shines during fights where it matters most anyway, because she hits a point where she is out healing other supports.

And the minimum about of health she heals is low, that isn't the total though. It's a base +20% AP + 0.5% missing HP on a 10 second cooldown, I will budge and say the mana costs are unreasonable at all stages of the game, but her heal is very effective, especially when tied with a small shield to take an extra hit for no cost.

Tanks do have an easier time in lane because they are designed to work well with small budgets, it really shouldn't come off as a shock to people that most supports are tanks, and complaining that that's the case is ridiculous, If a tank support misses their CC this is an ample 10-15 second window for the enemy laner to engage or get safe harass off.

Missing health is a horrible thing to scale off of, also remember that it's .5% per 1% missing. So assuming i heal an ally that's at 50% health my heal will do 25% more healing. So at rank 1 i will now be healing for 44 health on my ally up for the 35 if they were at full health (this assumes 20 AP from masteries and runes). Also the shield would be fine to compensate for that, except that it's on a very very short timer when compared to any of the other shield based effects in game, they average about 4-5 seconds... Sona's is 1.5.

I don't even have in issue with her heal in the late game, because by that point i've likely picked up some AP, and have 30-40% CDR. At that point it's actually quite impressive and the mana cost isn't all that oppressive (100 mana at rank 5.... when i should have a proper mana regen item built)

I still hold that she would be more viable, but not overpowered, if the rank one cost of her heal was reduced by 20 but the mana increase per rank was up to 10 per rank from its current 5 per rank. Also double the length of her shield (maybe make it last .5 seconds longer for each ally tagged if you don't want to straight up double the length). The shield isn't super strong as is, i might eat 1 basic attack from an ADC or a low ranked spell from a caster. Also remember that her shield doesn't offer any bonuses like say Janna's does. I figure that at 3 seconds of shield you can't keep it up 100% of the time, but it does make it so that their is a much higher chance of the shield actually blocking attacks instead of just popping on then off before doing any real good.

Silents429Aug 9, 20151 votes

Missing health is a horrible thing to scale off of

Is, is their any other time you'd heal someone? How is it a horrible thing to scale off of, the only time you would heal is if they are missing health.

Gunslinger744Aug 8, 20151 votes

Trundle support, ex fucking scuse me? "His E and Q are utility!" Please don't. I'm Silver and I don't even see that shit. Trundle is an anti-tank jungler or top laner. I'm open to most "out of meta picks" but this is just retarded and honestly report-worthy.

Monsta MooAug 8, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Trundle support, ex fucking scuse me? "His E and Q are utility!" Please don't. I'm Silver and I don't even see that shit. Trundle is an anti-tank jungler or top laner. I'm open to most "out of meta picks" but this is just retarded and honestly report-worthy.

Well it was working in higher elo games so...

Gunslinger744Aug 8, 20152 votes

Alright, I'll bite. I have absolutely no idea in what situation this would work, so please tell me. I'm genuinely interested right now. Maybe against Draven/Leona, or Jinx. But anything with a dash will make Trundle live up to his title as the King of trolls.

His GoatlinessAug 8, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Alright, I'll bite. I have absolutely no idea in what situation this would work, so please tell me. I'm genuinely interested right now. Maybe against Draven/Leona, or Jinx. But anything with a dash will make Trundle live up to his title as the King of trolls.

He adds a lot of damage, and can take a decent bit. Plus his slow/wall is pretty nice, and has a long range. It can also stop backs from a long distance.

The LovelessAug 8, 20153 votes

How can someone be okay with showcasing this amount of ignorance?

Gunslinger744Aug 8, 20151 votes

Please don't start this right now, I'm not in the mood for a forum ban and I doubt you can take what I've got stored at the moment. If you think you can tell me why support Trundle can work go ahead, I'll read it later.

The LovelessAug 8, 20151 votes

Feels like you're baiting me, but I'm not here to provoke you.

I don't play support trundle but I know his kit well enough to know he can steal ad, block enemy pathing with pillar, steal 40 something % of a tank's armor and MR to use as his own for several seconds, and has tremendous sustain from his passive + w field + ult (not to mention certain sustain items make him unkillable). He has so many ways to debilitate enemies while surviving for large chunks of any kind of fight that he's a very good person to fill the support role.

I'm not trying to convince you to play it - like I said, I don't play it, and in fact I haven't played a game in a month or two - but these are the reasons why he works. He's a debuffer and his ult turns tanks into squishies. I played Nasus not long ago and he seriously screwed me over, but I was laning and he was the jungler. Once he gets enough items to be tanky on is own, all he has to do is press r and you can never 1v1 him. Not to mention, his ult has a considerably short cool down.

Gunslinger744Aug 9, 20154 votes

Thank you for heeding my warning, the last thing I need right now is to get more pissed off at this game and its players. Seriously, thank you.

The points you bring up are all valid ways in which I hadn't considered Trundle yet. Since I'm so used to "obvious" supports like Tahm, Leona, Thresh and Braum I didn't see the very real support potential Trundle has. I usually play Trundle top or jungle, and because of the attack speed heavy tank-shredder build I generally use I guess I saw him as Support Nidalee 2.0. Thank you for clearing that up for me.