"lets make him even worse to be anywhere near"
"oh and we'll keep annie relatively untouched even though she can nuke entire teams instead of just one person"
"morde had 51% winrate before? clearly he needed change"
Critmaster Garen26 votesmorde was toxic because of his massive waveclearing/pushing and constant e poke. in lane he was like a tanky poke mage pre rework.
obviously they changed that into putting more power from his e into his q, makig him more threatening in melee, and less so at a distance. so whats your problem?
he had 51% winrate on the 2 people who were playing him.
Big Lincoln8 votesliterally none of that changed
max W and E bot lane and you clear waves ezpz except now you have no health-cost repercussion
Critmaster Garen4 votes[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:21:10.543+0000)
literally none of that changed
max W and E bot lane and you clear waves ezpz except now you have no health-cost repercussion
w doesnt allow you to clear waves and poke at your opponent at the same time every time he wants to get cs.
Maximum Morde8 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:25:47.256+0000)
w doesnt allow you to clear waves and poke at your opponent at the same time every time he wants to get cs.
Neither does E unless the opponent is melee or brain dead or both.
Critmaster Garen6 votes[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:27:34.859+0000)
Neither does E unless the opponent is melee or brain dead or both.
pre rework morde usually laned against melees. and ranged champs were squishy enough where hitting them with a single e really fucking hurt. he would just q the front row of minions to get an initial shield and then walk up to the ranged minions and hit them and ranged opponents with his e.
one way or the other, he played like a poke mage, which is absolutely weird for a giant dude in metal armor carrying a massive mace.
waveclearing with his w and q at least requires him to walk in between the minion wave and come close to his opponent now and then.
Maximum Morde6 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:29:52.995+0000)
pre rework morde usually laned against melees. and ranged champs were squishy enough where hitting them with a single e really fucking hurt. he would just q the front row of minions to get an initial shield and then walk up to the ranged minions and hit them and ranged opponents with his e.
one way or the other, he played like a poke mage, which is absolutely weird for a giant dude in metal armor carrying a massive mace.
And none of that changed. It's even worse in ways. The folks who were dumb enough(or melee) to get punished by that are the same ones who let morde walk up to them with a third Q and frag them. He can also still use his E in exactly the same way except now it scales a bit without him even putting points into it thanks to the total ad ratio. Mordekaiser current design, while amusing as a derp killer, is even more toxic than before.
Big Lincoln5 votesthere are a ton of champions who can waveclear and poke or trade simultaneously
oddly enough, all of them has a safety net in CC or an actual escape, and most of them will perform much better in early all-in attempts and ganks because of that fact
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:31:36.921+0000)
there are a ton of champions who can waveclear and poke or trade simultaneously
oddly enough, all of them has a safety net in CC or an actual escape, and most of them will perform much better in early all-in attempts and ganks because of that fact
but they dont have a shield like he does. its just the thing. he could poke and best someone do whilst poking or trading back is break his shield.
so they nerfed the shit out of his early game to a point where he almost always lost lane.
ya, hes different now, but hes actually strong and fells good to play.
Big Lincoln6 votesand he doesn't have CC or mobility like they do. that's the thing, none of them are more vulnerable than he is when he decides to push the shit out of his lane early game
nerf 
if you're gonna nerf mord for being good in lane because of poke/waveclear
Critmaster Garen4 voteshe wasnt nerfed. just changed. he does fine on bot lane with a tanky support/initiator.
overall in his new position he was buffed.
Maximum Morde2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:43:42.331+0000)
he wasnt nerfed. just changed. he does fine on bot lane with a tanky support/initiator.
overall in his new position he was buffed.
He was nerfed in some ways and more disgusting in others. Play him against a melee top lane and their day is ruined. And yeah he is hilarious as a duo kill lane with someone like Javan, Xin, or even Riven. The question is whether that holds up at higher levels of play and my gut feeling is no. Cause trying to play him into someone like Ali or Janna is a pretty huge exercise in frustration.
Big Lincoln4 voteshe does fine if they stick to him like glue and never EVER leave his side
this new position sucks in every possible way
Vhalthoria4 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:43:42.331+0000)
he wasnt nerfed. just changed. he does fine on bot lane with a tanky support/initiator.
overall in his new position he was buffed.
He does fine but only when babysitted? You realize pre-work Morde could be functional, play any role he wanted, and do fine by himself? So according to you the rework was not a nerf? That without mentioning he has better damage and base stat than this version. This version is nothing more than a butchered version of him.
Silents4291 votesThen stop fucking comparing him to the old Mordekaiser??
They aren't the same champions anymore, any rework is a failure if you constantly compare the champion and ONLY look at the nerfed aspects.
Mordekaiser requires team effort, and when it does happen he is rewarded greatly for it. It doesn't matter if the old Morde was standing on his own.
Vhalthoria1 votesThen stop fucking comparing him to the old Mordekaiser??
They aren't the same champions anymore, any rework is a failure if you constantly compare the champion and ONLY look at the nerfed aspects.
Mordekaiser requires team effort, and when it does happen he is rewarded greatly for it. It doesn't matter if the old Morde was standing on his own.
I'm not going to bother replying to your post. I will, instead, leave you a question.
What's the point of a Rework?
Silents4291 votesTo turn an outdated/broken/old champion into a new incarnation that functions in the modern game.
The Taco Kat1 votesDon't worry, Shurima's Overnerfed Emperor is STILL GETTING NERFED.
Mortekaiser6 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:12:59.317+0000)
morde was toxic because of his massive waveclearing/pushing and constant e poke. in lane he was like a tanky poke mage pre rework.
obviously they changed that into putting more power from his e into his q, makig him more threatening in melee, and less to at a distance. so whats your problem?
he had 51% winrate on the 2 people who were playing him.
the constant E poke only happened to players who played like dummies and stood right next to their own minions. force morde to decide on waveclear or poking you, but if you gave him both then you deserved the poke.
good waveclear? pushing? wow, i guess that opens up avenues for ganking, right? and he was punished for these strengths with no CC or mobility?
significantly more than 2 people were playing him, I assure you
Critmaster Garen3 votesthe constant E poke only happened to players who played like dummies and stood right next to their own minions. force morde to decide on waveclear or poking you, but if you gave him both then you deserved the poke.
good waveclear? pushing? wow, i guess that opens up avenues for ganking, right? and he was punished for these strengths with no CC or mobility?
significantly more than 2 people were playing him, I assure you
its not really a hard decision for morde. he usually cleared minion waves first, because farming was all he needed to do. basically he pushed in waves and when you had 2 of his waves in your face, he had his e free to poke at you.
i remember when old morde was a thing in mid lane. he pushed out a wave, went and got a jungle camp. then pushed out the next wave then harassed you. he didnt need to focus on his opponent. just outfarm him by 100 cs and poke whenever his opponent tried to push back.
Mortekaiser7 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:39:46.916+0000)
its not really a hard decision for morde. he usually cleared minion waves first, because farming was all he needed to do. basically he pushed in waves and when you had 2 of his waves in your face, he had his e free to poke at you.
i remember when old morde was a thing in mid lane. he pushed out a wave, went and got a jungle camp. then pushed out the next wave then harassed you. he didnt need to focus on his opponent. just outfarm him by 100 cs and poke whenever his opponent tried to push back.
pre-rework morde could still go mid and push waves, but there are a lot of mages who can push just as hard as he could.
now, his damage in mid is hilariously bad and every mage mid outpushes him. his pushing power is what kept his strength in midlane morde, and toplane as well. toplane champs typically can farm under turret so it never really bothers them, and midlane mages usually kept up with his pushing power.
the thing you're failing to realize is that morde is more toxic now. there isn't debate about this, it's just this simple.
you tell me that morde can push really hard, I tell you that its his weakness and leaves him a walking bag of gold for most junglers.
you then proceed to ignore this and tell me about how morde is harassing you, and i'm now gonna tell you that he should decide between pushing the wave with E or harassing you with E. if morde (attempts) harasses you with E, punch his stupid metal helmet in, or farm the wave. if morde pushes the wave, punch his stupid metal face in, because he has no damage on you for a few seconds. if morde is getting both free harass on you AND pushing the wave at the same time, then you deserved the damage.
no matter how much you think otherwise, morde's shield simply wasn't good enough to prevent him from being all-in'd by a champ that can fight him pre-6.
[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:36:14.383+0000)
actually 51% winrate for a low pickrate champ is almost pathetic.
most champs that have a low pickrate and only dedicated mains playing them win much more games. pre rework fiora for example usually had between 2% and 5% pick rate. and 56% winrate.
if really dedicated morde mains are only winning 51% of the games with him, it seems rather weak.
I had around a 60% winrate with morde as I was climbing through gold and half of plat, but if I kept playing him I theorize I'd have stabilized at around a 50% ish winrate at wherever my eventual rank would have ended up at, if morde was left alone and I kept playing him
Critmaster Garen2 votes{quoted} the thing you're failing to realize is that morde is more toxic now. there isn't debate about this, it's just this simple.
based on what?
Raid Boss Morde3 votesHIs Q can now deal 1500+ damage from one hit lategame.
He's always ahead of the opponent in levels because WHY NOT, free power in the form of EXP.
If he gets dragon, he's allowed to either take any turret he wants, or get a free Baron on his own.
Seems pretty toxic...
Ulquiorra9951 votesFor starters, of how completely binary he is. Can he get into melee range?
-If yes, you are dead. He can obliterate you without breaking a sweat. -If not, he's useless.
And then there's the fact that the only way an immobile, CC-less melee can thrive in botlane, which is dominated by range, mobility and peel is by being numerically overpowered. Trying to fight Mordekaiser is a fool's errand; he will easily outlevel, outdamage and outsustain you. And the saddest thing? Because of how he works, he;d be totally useless if he was unable to outlevel, outdamage and outsustain.
7ball3 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:39:46.916+0000)
its not really a hard decision for morde. he usually cleared minion waves first, because farming was all he needed to do. basically he pushed in waves and when you had 2 of his waves in your face, he had his e free to poke at you.
i remember when old morde was a thing in mid lane. he pushed out a wave, went and got a jungle camp. then pushed out the next wave then harassed you. he didnt need to focus on his opponent. just outfarm him by 100 cs and poke whenever his opponent tried to push back.
have you ever played morde before rework?
Critmaster Garen2 voteshave you ever played morde before rework?
yes.
Big Lincoln5 votes"don't get near him"
who doesn't this apply to? such a shitty reason to rework anyone ever
TurquoiseYoshi1 votes
Byakuya Kuchiki2 votes
Big Lincoln3 votesif you're on the map then you're too close to karthus
fyi
Deaeras1 votes[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EIr8yfZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-28T11:13:31.216+0000)
"don't get near him"
who doesn't this apply to? such a shitty reason to rework anyone ever
IKR, sure Mordekaiser was annoying to play against but he still had clear strengths and weaknesses, but now it's basically play him bot lane with either Leona or Blitz, and have either Amumu or Malph on your team or you're fucked.
Best Darius KR4 votesWinrate only matters when coupled with pick rate. Heimerdinger has had one of the highest win rates for quite some time, so why hasn't he been nerfed? Because the only people who play him are his mains.
Same thing can be applied to morde. I'm not here to discuss whether the rework was good or not, or if it accomplished what it supposed to. I'm just here to say that looking at the winrate is not enough.
Critmaster Garen3 votesWinrate only matters when coupled with pick rate. Heimerdinger has had one of the highest win rates for quite some time, so why wasn't he been nerfed? Because the only people who play him are his mains.
Same thing can be applied to morde. I'm not here to discuss whether the rework was good or not, or if it accomplished what it supposed to. I'm just here to say that looking at the winrate is not enough.
actually 51% winrate for a low pickrate champ is almost pathetic.
most champs that have a low pickrate and only dedicated mains playing them win much more games. pre rework fiora for example usually had between 2% and 5% pick rate. and 56% winrate.
if really dedicated morde mains are only winning 51% of the games with him, it seems rather weak.
Byakuya Kuchiki1 votesthats because no one is a really dedicated morde main anymore, he changed a ton sure his spells are similar to before but you play him completely differently. if you mained sion before the rework you wouldnt say youre a dedicated sion main and you are only having a 50% win at the time. when a champion changes everyone loses "main" status for about 3 months
Raid Boss Morde1 votesThat logic seems a little flawed...
agbudar1 voteso man glad there is someone who understands things a bit,
i was a dedicated morde main and i felt infuriated by how little morde could do compaired to other champion's you would think morde is simple... well it was fukin hard to get kills and a lead and even harder to keep it. the weaknesses that he had far outweighed his minor advantage's of having good damage. mind you that was only really in the early game if you played it right. ironically he was weak early game due to his weaknesses not his strength's like i said they outweighed it.
yknow i did better with yorick another underwhelming champion then i ever did with morde. and i did sooooo much better with malzahar then with yorick ad malz is so broken once you know how to do it.... aka spam like nuts but make sure you apply E to your actual target.
ive been spamming the fuk out of morde these days and honestly the only reason i make it work is with the following core build
this gives me ironically CC which cuts away 1 weakness
and mobility which cuts away his second weakness.
so was his rework a succes? well it works thats all i care about for too long have i played a champion that simply didn't work cuz it was so fukin easy to counter him he countered himself for crying out loud.
Sasogwa4 votesAnnie is exactly the same though, except "near" is quite farther than Morde.
Mortekaiser4 votesAnnie is exactly the same though, except "near" is quite farther than Morde.
i concur
and annie also has the ability to delete multiple people with flash plays, not just one person
Kingsgrave1 votesi concur
and annie also has the ability to delete multiple people with flash plays, not just one person
Except Annie doesn't get a ghost of a fed enemy team member, % health damage and a large amount of innate tankiness just for doing damage
ParaBellam3 votesI never really got why people would choose 
for the bot lane instead of an ADC. There are so many better unorthodox options with either hard CC or mobility, AND with comparable damage.
could all theoretically work in the ADC role. Hell, is probably the most effective one of the four. Put him together with a tank with CC ( 
Q counts as a knock-up for Yasuo's ult!) and you're pretty much guaranteed first blood. And good fucking luck getting away from them.
And I didn't even start listing the APCs that can reliably farm from afar such as , 
, 
,
When you look at the numbers, there are champs NOT DESIGNED to be in a duo lane that could actually do a better job than
Transgressor3 votes"Annie's only engage is her flash" "Just stay out of range when she has stun"
Every Annie main ever.
Voluug132 votesIf annie is nuking your entire team maybe you need to get a better eam that doesnt stack in the same pixel.
SmokinSickStyle2 votes
Gorgannan2 votes"Pick Vayne as ADC" (gg report this freelo abuser) Get into game and see they have Annie support :'(
Pæan2 votesYou just described a lot of champs.
and many others
Saianna2 votesFor the love of god, stop with that "nerf annie".
She was fine from the start. You are just being spoiled. She does perfect job hurting all those mobile, hard to catch champions. I get it you have been killed too many times by annie. But maybe then switch a lane? Try her? I dunno..
What would you remove next? Amumus ultimate? Just stop it.
Caytheles1 votesThey could remove tibbers stun? i mean, he is a burst of dmg bear who is instant and still does some nice dmg with his sunfire cape passive.
SociopathFriend2 votes Did you hear about Morde's counterplay?
There's counterplay to him?
I can hear you- fools!
Shush Morde, the real champions are talking.
I will crush you!
Well... you can't really catch us.
It's okay Morde, just go back to bot and let one of the supports sing you to sleep.
Oh myyyyyyy.
Lugg1 votesMeanwhile
VexingRaven1 votesmorde is toxic because his counterplay is not to get near him
I feel like this describes all of the juggernauts. Garen and Darius both have this too. And they're all incredibly predictable and binary.