Can Garen have the Varus treatment?

Lao Fu the Tiger·Apr 19, 2015·12 votes·1,188 views

Can Garen's Q go on cooldown at the start of the cast instead of after it times out/after he hits something with it?

Honestly this would be all it takes for him to be a much more viable choice, in my opinion. If you're worried about it then having too short of a cooldown, that's a super super easy remedy, I'd think.

EDIT: For clarification, if double silences/always uptime were an issue, the cooldown could be raised on Q some so this isn't too much of a problem. Basically, I'm just thinking dynamic versus static cooldown.

POLL OK GO. <3

18 Comments

SH AzykanApr 19, 20155 votes

I vote no simply because that would enable him double silences, basically rendering any caster worthless if he is in range and prevents them from having any chance of escaping his spin. They can't even flash away and just have to let garen kill them .-.

Lao Fu the TigerApr 19, 20154 votes

This would be countered by increasing the effective cooldown on Q. So it's still static vs. a dynamic cooldown, but longer physical numbers. I'll append this.

Trash MammaIApr 19, 20158 votes

Idk, increasing the cd might have a bad effect on his laning. Normally things like that do

Lao Fu the TigerApr 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Idk, increasing the cd might have a bad effect on his laning. Normally things like that do

This is true.

SEKAIApr 19, 20153 votes

Whatever it is, Garen needs a hand, I wouldn't even mind this guy being flat out OP for a short period since he definitely deserves it.

This guy has been this good for nothing walking hp bar for a long time now.

Riot, save him.

Meep ManApr 19, 20153 votes

No, that would allow for an infinite silence and increasing the cool down to compensate wouldn't change anything in the end then, being a small nerf to Garen if used instantly.

GloriousKaiserApr 19, 20153 votes

I think people are too focused on "perma shutdown" silences. TBH Garen has a tough time getting to opponents and he's got a tough time sticking to them. So if the silences came in shorter intervals, shouldn't that basically tell you something? Don't stay near him. Given that's a prime melee champion, that should be the prime counterplay. And pretty much every champion has something in their kit to handle him.

Having a dynamic cooldown doesn't solve the kiting problem. It may make him more persistant, but it doesn't remedy the main problem of having no frontloadable play-making IE: Making plays, Not punishing mistakes.

WolfChasesApr 19, 20152 votes

I vote YES but I have a better idea. That change would be awesome but ONLY and ONLY if riot does something similar like the thing they added on Udyr's stun, Yasuo's E, Rek'Sai's Knockup, I mean, that little indicator that target can't get stunned, knockedup, dashed through in next X seconds. If they add something like that to Garen's silence that low CD would be great.

BeerOfRoot4843Apr 19, 20152 votes

I think you just solved your own problem. Buy 8 tears on Garen!

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AzukusApr 19, 20151 votes

if it happens to garen, it happens to vayne kk

IcyPepperApr 19, 20151 votes

Vayne's not exactly in a bad spot, especially in the current meta.

Garen... needs a little more. But because one champion gets something doesn't mean another should. Balance is a delicate thing.

StoningtonApr 19, 20151 votes

What a jokester.

Stars ShaperApr 19, 20151 votes

I'm not aware of the state of Garen and how much the CD of his Q influence him but I must say that his Q and Varus Q are 2 different things at core.

Garen Q has the component of freeing him from slows to charge on target while Varus Q is his poke and great damage skill.

The reason of Varus Q cd to start as it is first cast is because Varus gets benefit from it if full charged but the enemy then has more time to spot and prepare to doge it. Hence the change to Q cd reload was to reward Varus of a full charge Q instead of punishing him with a cd that was longer than it would be if instacast.

Garen on the other hand doesn't have a charge on it, he just needs the time to reach the enemy and this is rewarded by not starting miles away. I'm not saying that Garen doesn't need buffs/love, I just think that this isn't the right way to do it.

Maybe it could be that for the second half of the duration he gets immune to movement impairing effects or that after half of the duration of the buff the enemy gets rooted.

CindikleApr 19, 20151 votes

Only way to make it work is to increase the base CD. Which would hurt him if he has to use it right away to interrupt a channel or stop a combo.

Both ways have a down side. I'd rather have a shorter CD when when using it right away instead of feeling less punished if I cannot use the attack right away. This also counters for attacking turrets. Which he would have a longer CD for.

The current setup also brings counterplay options. If you can prevent his attack you delay the next cooldown. Riot likes counterplay.

n810mApr 19, 20151 votes

Sorry, but they seem like two completely different cases. There's a reasons all AA resets only go on cooldown after they're used. As everyone else said, double silence is really fkin oppressive. If his cooldown was raised, it would hurt it being used as an AA reset and how it's supposed to be used. He shouldn't get a special treatment for his AA reset. If anything, I'd like to see his E crit interactions changed to be based off of a tank stat instead of crit.

Demented LemurApr 19, 20151 votes

The difference between Varus Q and Garens Q is that Varus doesn't gain anything until he fires it and hits something and it only damage and is also slowed while charging . Garen removes slows and gains movement speed as well as silences the person hit as well as doing damage

The Bíg TicketApr 19, 20151 votes

So he will constantly run around with 550 ms lategame? Seems fine.

DesideriumApr 19, 20151 votes

That would be a terrible idea. You don't let a gapclosing, slow-cleansing, silencing, attack-damage increasing spell have such a low effective cooldown. Additionally, this change would literally take off all the depth of choice in Garen's Q. There would be 100% no reason to not use it at all times. Having it on a static cooldown forces you to be more opportunistic about when you use it. Trying to go in, and fail? Well, now your enemy has more time to punish you. Basically, this change would promote laziness, and punish good, responsive, counteractive plays against you. To say nothing about double silences, as that is an obvious problem that you hopefully did not miss.