Nidalee's damage is laughably overboard

Omiwom·Feb 14, 2015·42 votes·3,652 views

Saw her delete tank jarvan with a spear --> cougar combo three times in GMB vs Elements It looked so frustrating for Elements. They could never lock down Nidalee but she could chuck spears any time she wanted. That's what makes her so annoying to play against, she can hit you, but you can't fight back (unless she makes a dumb decision to dive too deep). This champion has a ridiculous amount of kill pressure at every moment in the game. People realized her kit's damage is so insanely high they can take her into the jungle and still delete people even with the small amount of gold junglers recieve. qq

34 Comments

SlytherinUmbreonFeb 14, 201517 votes

I don't know what's happening, but can we just agree that Nidalee should never get buffed again?

Vistha KaiFeb 14, 20157 votes

I suggest we Olaf her then lock in a small room and throw the key into a smelter.

Nausicäa Feb 14, 201517 votes

Incredibly fed champion kills a champion that isnt fed. Game is broken.

ArcaneFoxFeb 14, 20158 votes

Everyone loves to complain about nidalee. Yes, lets change her ONE damage skill in human form that is a SKILL SHOT. You know why it hurts? Because you have to know what you are doing to land it, and you have to know how to COUNTER a champion.

There are these things called Wards that will let you see Nidalee incomming so you can get out of spear range, or safely move behind a minion.

There are these items that do things called Magic Resist that make them hurt less!

There are these things called minions that when you stand behind them, make spears impossible to land.

There are these moves that use CC that when used properly can make Nidalee a non-issue!

I have been a nidalee main for a very long time. Before her changes, everyone complained about her spear. They nerfed the spear, gave her some interesting game mechanics and now everyone has to complain again. Nidalee jungle is easy because this is what happens: No one wards and People CHASE Nidalee and if you are going to be that stupid, you should blame yourself, not ask for nerfs.

The most people bitch and complain about champions that actually take skill to play, the worse this game gets.

Adrian UmbraFeb 14, 20154 votes

I'm not disagreeing with you, I feel that a lot of people are getting wrecked by decent Nidalees and complaining about it on the forums. But I would like to remark on some things in your post that are a little worrying for me to see from a Nid main.

Her spear isn't her only damage in human form. The traps should NEVER be underestimated, especially form any longtime Nid player, as they apply hunt debuff and deal %health damage, which was very useful in top lane for bruiser Nid and on the current jungle monsters.
MR's not in an especially good state right now, especially if the Nidalee picks up Void Staff. For many targets, hiding behind minions won't be an option (and really isn't against a fed Nidalee) and most Nid players will simply sit back and spam spears until the enemy team is soft enough to mop up on. CC doesn't help at all at those ranges and the only real option to deal with it is to force an engage or outlast her, both difficult options considering the state of sustain in the game or if the Nid's fed/enemy team's ahead.
Can't ward everywhere, especially in low ELO. If warding, dodging, and MR are the only real ways to deal with Nidalee, then there's very little inherent counterplay: wards fade, dodging isn't 100% perfect, and MR only reduces the damage.
The reason Nidalee jungle is strong isn't necessarily because of her ganks, it's partly due to the pressure she brings due to an extremely fast clear speed. If you watch the SK vs H2K game, Nidalee clears and moves fast enough that she was able to start Kruggs, do both buffs, and meet her jungle opponent at their red to contest it and kill him. Granted, this was partly because the enemy was Elise and she cleared three camps before red, but this is an incredible amount of pressure for the jungler who faces her. And this feels too much like a Lee Sin/Renekton bar for me to feel comfortable with it.

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

Skia AsteriFeb 14, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AB55yjBN,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-02-14T16:44:00.057+0000)

The reason Nidalee jungle is strong isn't necessarily because of her ganks, it's partly due to the pressure she brings due to an extremely fast clear speed. If you watch the SK vs H2K game, Nidalee clears and moves fast enough that she was able to start Kruggs, do both buffs, and meet her jungle opponent at their red to contest it and kill him. Granted, this was partly because the enemy was Elise and she cleared three camps before red, but this is an incredible amount of pressure for the jungler who faces her. And this feels too much like a Lee Sin/Renekton bar for me to feel comfortable with it.

Elise in that game had cleared four champs before starting Red Buff (11 cs = gromp 1 + blue 3 + wolves 3 + raptors 4).

It was mentioned by one of the contaminators day one, week one that Loulex is greed in his jungle routes and always tries to get all the camps before backing if possible regardless of how low it puts him. And this was a case of it being used against him.

Adrian UmbraFeb 14, 20151 votes

Absolutely (though apologies that I missed the Gromp camp, still adjusting to that existing). And this is acceptable. What I'm a little worried about is that this might crowd out some of the slower junglers who would be starting Red at the point that Nidalee had finished her blue and started heading over. On top of that, Nid's still REALLY fast in the jungle and a great duelist.

However, this is mostly a moot point since there are stronger factors at work here than Nidalee crowding out the slower/weaker junglers.

YfrappefortFeb 14, 20155 votes

This is the main reason Nidalee becomes perma-ban as soon as she is popular (yet again...). Nobody likes fighting against her. Nobody likes avoiding spears all game, to be hit by one and die. Nobody likes her endless chasing/escape skill. Nobody likes being executed by Garen's ult on a very low CD.

DerptionaryFeb 14, 20154 votes

The problem with Nidalee is Riot doesn't know what to make her. In early Season 3 when AD Nidalee was popular Riot went "Oh no we want Nidalee to be a siege champion with big spears!" and nerfed her to being unviable as AD. Then people remembered that 1.5k range 1k+ damage spears on a 3 second cooldown was pretty good so AP Nidalee became the OP Nidalee.

Then Season 4 came along and Nidalee was reworked into being a split pusher again. Riot remembered how strong Nidalee is as split pushing, and nerfed her AD capabilities hard enough that AP Nidalee is now the new "in" thing.

Riot needs to do away with AP nidalee and just make her a split pusher. She's a lot less toxic that way and AD Nidalee can be managed easier than Q -> WQ to 1shot someone as AP nidalee

Vistha KaiFeb 14, 20152 votes

The thing is her AP scalling got buffed along AD being nerfed. Compensation for nerfing AD wasn't ever needed.

doubleguacFeb 14, 20152 votes

and AD Nidalee can be managed easier than Q -> WQ to 1shot someone as AP nidalee

I main top lane. Post-rework AD nidalee made me want to quit LoL. That build was unbelievably toxic pre-nerf. Even if it hadn't been overpowered (which it was), it still would have been annoying to play against.

AP nidalee is a far more interesting build. It's just overtuned right now. She's supposed to be a squishy champion with decent poke who has a lot of burst, but has to jump into melee range to utilize it (and has to set it up first by landing a spear). That's a far more interesting play pattern than her AD build, which steamrolled every melee in lane, then spent the rest of the game split pushing 24/7 in an uncatchable, manaless form with excellent wave clear.

I think the rework was successful, in the sense that it forces nidalee to dash into melee in order to access most of her burst. She is just overpowered right now. If they reduced her spear damage a bit, she would be fine. She would still have decent (but not overwhelming) poke, and she would really be forced to jump into melee range to access her damage.

zock3yFeb 14, 20154 votes

Nope. What's mostly overboard is Nidalee's capability of jumping across half of the map when she hits the bloody spear (which you should've dodged in the first place) and even then having a 1 s cooldown on her pounce, so she can even escape after doing that.

edit: and if you're up against a Nidalee you know is going to lane, just pick Mordekaiser. From my experience (about 6 games with that matchups, me being either one of those), Nidalee can't do shit. But hey, he's getting changed into shit, so it doesn't matter actually.

VDc0zCqe0wFeb 14, 20153 votes

Nidalee is perfectly fine, she must buy damage in order to deal damage, instead of every OFFTANK (the CANCER of this game) that go FULL tank (with maybe a warrior's enchant, wich is BROKEN) and outdamage every single champ on the map while having a FUCKTON of CC (hello J4, hello VI, hello GNAR)

do you bitch if an AP carry oneshots you? no you don't because they have to build squishy in order to deal damage, instead of every single cancer offtank in this game

Silents429Feb 14, 20153 votes

We don't bitch about an AP carry killing us because that is their sole purpose, use their combo to get high priority targets.

At least we can actually attack the AP Carry.

At least we can CATCH the AP carry.

At least the AP Carry has to think about what they do.

Nidalee is exactly what everyone bitches about with Lee and Zed, She is overly safe, deals massive damage, and has no real counter play.

Their is nothing to save you, even if you land a stun or anything on her, she just fucking hops along and outruns you, or continues to jump over everything.

If you seriously think bruisers are the "cancer" of this game then you need to broaden your vision. Because that shit has been around since season 1.

DotElevenFeb 14, 20152 votes

It was so stupid to watch. Catch Nidalee out, nope she pounces away. Catch Kalsita out, nope Martial Poise is bullshit. Catch Ahri out, nope Spirit Rush. Catch Thresh out, nope Fate's Call. Catch Morg out, Thresh Lantern.

HandheldBrandonFeb 14, 20151 votes

If Kalista gets caught out most teams will usually melt in her a few seconds. All it takes is a snare or a stun and shes done. Nid you can drop one of those on her and she will still probably escape and heal back up while chucking spears at you along the way.

AbyssphereFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If Kalista gets caught out most teams will usually melt in her a few seconds. All it takes is a snare or a stun and shes done. Nid you can drop one of those on her and she will still probably escape and heal back up while chucking spears at you along the way.

This is totally untrue. There is absolutely no way for Nidalee to escape that Kalista wouldn't also handle. Pounce's range is 375, and Nidalee is nowhere near as skillshot resistant.

HandheldBrandonFeb 14, 20152 votes

Good luck first of all getting into range of nid to even land a CC second off if you do get close enough she will turn into cougar form and probably dodge it. Second you can CC her but if there is no immediate burst damage she will pop a heal which will heal for a ton and then she will probably launch a spear also and pounce on whoever shit hit.

Fighting Nid at any range is a chore.

A Slime AppearsFeb 14, 20151 votes

Sooooo...basically where we were 6 months or so ago before they reworked her? Riot's reworks department at its finest.

DotElevenFeb 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Slime Appears,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AB55yjBN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-02-14T05:31:43.875+0000)

Sooooo...basically where we were 6 months or so ago before they reworked her? Riot's reworks department at its finest.

Well, I mean, they never address the problem which was "She hits one spear and basically a guys dead".

Spacesuit SpiffFeb 14, 20151 votes

Yeah, she's a bit much. Maybe not as gamebreaking as she was last time AP nid was around, but every time I see her I still end up thinking "why are you so strong even though I just got your dumb ass killed in a countergank?" or the like. And it's truly sad to see her played mid and your mid laner going b constantly because they don't realize mres is a thing.

Vistha KaiFeb 14, 20152 votes

Just because the spear itself doesn't deal as much damage as before, doesn't make Nidalee any less broken than before her rework.

TheDarkPrinceFeb 14, 20151 votes

We need more bans.

Silents429Feb 14, 20151 votes

I shall share a story.

First off Nid needs some nerfs, The amount of damage, with that cheap ass execute she has along with the mobility. The heal. Everything.

She can't have all this shit in her kit it is insane, and having her in the jungle is utterly terrifying to deal with, I went fiddlesticks jungle and that bitch lived in my jungle, she was clearing things left and right, hopping over walls to execute buffs, killing me despite timing a Fear and Silence to create distance, all the while she doesn't have any risk to any of this, any time we try cornering her and blocking escapes she just runs through turrets and hops walls, no CC was holding her, because as luck would have it, she heals then jumps on out.

I literally could do nothing, and of course her lovely traps being placed all over the map, her pressure is just insane, I was entirely useless the first 30 minutes of the game.

What IS her counterplay? Dodge the spear? Oh thats funny, how long can you dodge spammable spears with 120ping? Even then she just jumps at you executes and runs out.

We won the game, and I said my hefty fuck you to the Nidalee (not in chat just out loud) But dear god I would take a Lee Sin any day over her, I have ever hated someone so much before.

SleepyLionCubFeb 14, 20151 votes

The funny thing about nidalee is that she just deals damage, and there is no real way to stop her.

Oh, you have tons of high cc champions? Ima just throw spears and chunk them for 1/3 of their health. Oh they dodged it? Cool i have 50 more im going to randomly throw out till 1 connects, cougar in, get the kill, and dash out.

Meanwhile, if she ever has to run away rather than go on the offensive, she not only gets super insane movespeed in the jungle, but vision, ability to jump over walls, and ranged harass that doesn't require her to slow down much at all.

Its like riot doesnt really see her mobility as a thing that exists. Yea, she can get chased, but how the fuck are you supposed to dodge spear after spear, and still catch her when she has like 50 ways to out mobility you.

AudreeeyFeb 14, 20151 votes

Hunt the kitty or be hunted by the kitty.

SleepyLionCubFeb 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hunt the kitty or be hunted by the kitty.

More like hunt the kitty and get killed by mobility, and spear's. OR get hunted by the kitty and get killed by her laughable cougar form damage.

AudreeeyFeb 14, 20151 votes

I mean don't chase her that's stupid, just ward your jungle.

SleepyLionCubFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I mean don't chase her that's stupid, just ward you jungle.

thanks for proving my point. "Chasing her is stupid" yea, because she can just kill you any time she wants.

But how do you stop a nidalee? kill her? cept nobody can even get close to her since she just stay way back spamming spears.

AudreeeyJul 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

thanks for proving my point. "Chasing her is stupid" yea, because she can just kill you any time she wants.

But how do you stop a nidalee? kill her? cept nobody can even get close to her since she just stay way back spamming spears.

Lol chasing most people in an unwarded jungle is stupid. To win against Nidalee you just do what you would for anyone else: Ward and peel. If you can peel against Nidalee then she cant do anything. CC = Nidalee death. :D Watch for dat pounce

SleepyLionCubJul 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lol chasing most people in an unwarded jungle is stupid. To win against Nidalee you just do what you would for anyone else: Ward and peel. If you can peel against Nidalee then she cant do anything. CC = death. :D Watch for dat pounce

Peel her? Have you played against nid before? Since I'm pretty sure you haven't, here's some friendly advice. She is still dangerous at range.

AudreeeyJul 31, 20151 votes

You don't start nerfing champions because you don't play against their weaknesses. Her spear is a skillshot and its damage scales with how much time you've been given to dodge it, therefor you are punished when you cant/refuse to dodge. Point and clicks are one thing, but this is not a point and click.