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Early picks no longer fall off.

The thigh guy··39 votes·11,515 views

I mean really. Early picks like renekton, Lucien, talon, lee sin and Elise just don’t feel like they fall off anymore.

Renekton used to literally be a “win the game by 20 minutes or lose” champion and now he seems to scale just fine.

Lucien used to just be a champion to stomp lane, but now he seems to be keeping up just fine with hyper scaling picks.

Is it the items? Is it the runes? Is it how EVERY good item has a % tacked into it? (Not talking as much about crit so much as %pen and %hp)

I’ll use renekton as the example. He used to be a burst fighter than would just stat check the shit out of you, then once you got the appropriate stats was more of a minor deterrence.

Now hatergater is a flying hurricane of never ending blades and healing due to sos. Can’t fall off of you no longer have cooldowns right?

Hell maybe it’s my brain just adjusting to average game time being so stupidly short.

67 Comments

Ragnaveil17 votes

Yes, ren doesnt fall off because of SoS. Thats it. Remove that, and him + Jax will likely fall off a cliff.

SithesisLord4 votes

Jax will likely fall off a cliff.

Jax is a late game champion. Remove SoS and he'll still not fall off because he's not supposed to fall off.

He just needs to actually be weak early.

Ragnaveil3 votes

The reason he doesnt fall off late is due to CDR oversaturation in items and the unnecessary cdr buffs he got in the past. His early is strong because of Counterstrike being able to ignore all auto damage. If it reduced it (instead of full ignore) people might be able to trade into it.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

No, Jax doesn't fall off because he scales extremely well. Jax has always been a late game champion, far before people started complaining about CDR saturation.

LordGeovanni1 votes

In my experience Jax doesnt really fall off late damage wise but he does fall off in the survivability he gets Bursted before he goes in survives for a while with his counter strike then blow up the half second its down Some times when the enemy has enough ability damage he just dies before his counter strike or during it

Aatrox Airlines2 votes

Thats why you build steraks... And thats why you have your r button...

LordGeovanni1 votes

steraks build is a much lower dps jax Jax's R is more defense than No R but its a pitiful amount of defese especially since jax doesnt stack alot of ad and if you stacking ad you arent stacking ap for the magic resist. Ive made this comment a few times but Jax's R is short expecially compared to a champions with a shorter cooldown ult more dps and the reverse effect of his ult after an initial nuke Yasuo or Riven

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Jax is a late game champion. Remove SoS and he'll still not fall off because he's not supposed to fall off.

He just needs to actually be weak early.

I disagree with this. I don't think Jax is supposed to be a late game champ. And either way, his late game is WAY too strong currently (and just because of SOS).

Spicy Rice3 votes

He was one of the original hyper carries....

Raeni Sun3 votes

Jax is weak early into a ton of matchups. Baiting out his counter strike and dodging it is key to winning early trades and extended fights. You can beat him up with a ton of champs.

WoonStruck15 votes

BECAUSE WE HERE AT RIOT GAMES BELIEVE EVERYONE DESERVES TO HAVE FUN

:^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^)

Shrek Luigi1 votes

yes

:^)

Magnesium149 votes

Cause late game picks don't have a bad early game anymore.

The thigh guy4 votes

{quoted}

Cause late game picks don't have a bad early game anymore.

Not really. Jinx, gangplank, Syndra, Kayn, (Insert scaling support here) are all hardly even champions without items.

Magnesium141 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8z8ygjE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-08-01T20:15:40.769+0000)

Not really. Jinx, gangplank, Syndra, Kayn, (Insert scaling support here) are all hardly even champions without items.

For example for Jinx is it really that hard to get an infinity edge. I mean their are champions like Veigar who should be late game but don't have a very bad early game either (Veigar has a bad early game but it isn't that bad for a champion who starts one shotting with one ability.)

Ragnaveil4 votes

I raise you one Aatrox. Theres no way you cant seriously tell me his early isn't atrocious.

preternatural7 votes

{quoted}

I raise you one Aatrox. Theres no way you cant seriously tell me his early isn't atrocious.

it's not atrocious, his early is honestly a positioning nightmare for the opponent.

The thigh guy5 votes

{quoted}

I raise you one Aatrox. Theres no way you cant seriously tell me his early isn't atrocious.

His early isn’t that weak. Nothing with 3 knocks on one ability can be weak. It’s just not possible. Could literally just be three knock ups with no damage, and it’ll still be strong af.

SithesisLord3 votes

Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle

You were saying?

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle Kayle

You were saying?

kayle scaled up, the game didn't scale down for her.

Aatrox Airlines2 votes

Skayle*

preternatural1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8z8ygjE,comment-id=0004000200000000,timestamp=2019-08-02T13:15:22.421+0000)

Skayle*

that pun is a bit too dank for me [sg-poppy]

LordGeovanni1 votes

Scaled her early game too so its not really punishable without jungler anymore.

Ragnaveil9 votes

Makes sense when Riven is allowed to 100-0 people by popping R because having a 700+ damage execute at 40% HP is such good gameplay. Or having one spell be the best DPS rotation spell in the game (auto weaving between qs).

preternatural7 votes

there is no time for early champions to fall off games are over too early lol.

The thigh guy7 votes

{quoted}

there is no time for early champions to fall off games are over too early lol.

That happens when kills are worth over 1k gold.

Bultz6 votes

I've been saying this for two years, no one falls off. Early game champions keep their strength now form start to finish, having late game champions suffer for it. But as soon as a late game champion needs to get hit, they don't hesitate. They expect you to suffer through 20 minutes, if a game can even last that long, of being shat on by early game champions and then when it's your time to be a late game champion your still just barely even with early game champions because they have stacked kills or gold or whatever for 20 minutes.

GigglesO3 votes

Worst part riot just keeps making the game worse literally every patch.

Hayaishi25 votes

It'a because there are no tanks i think. Lucian struggles at killing those.

The thigh guy5 votes

{quoted}

It'a because there are no tanks i think. Lucian struggles at killing those.

He doesn’t even really struggle with tanks cause of his synergy with Bork and cleaver.

Hayaishi26 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8z8ygjE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-08-01T20:17:44.212+0000)

He doesn’t even really struggle with tanks cause of his synergy with Bork and cleaver.

Bork and cleaver does 0 damage. It's not even a good build anymore.

The thigh guy3 votes

{quoted}

Bork and cleaver does 0 damage. It's not even a good build anymore.

It’s still one of the most built items in the game. By miles. And removing 24% of armor isn’t increasing damage?

Yets42403 votes

Let alone 8% hp per hit, with his free extra auto, making it 16% HP.

Remember, a target just needs 1250 HP for BotRK to give more average damage per auto than a motherfucking BT.

Ragnaveil5 votes

Yeah, when tanks dont exist. When they do, its a top dog build.

floo1 votes

{quoted}

It'a because there are no tanks i think. Lucian struggles at killing those.

Lucian used to build botrk and bc, making him better at tank killing than most crit adcs. (Until they buy last whisper at which point armor doesnt matter anyway)

CrazyMonkeyCZ3 votes

Except Rene(duo to SoS) all of these fall off to some extent.

Lucian? Really? No reason to pick him over Sivir, Xayah, Ez, Jinx, bcs of scaling.

Talon? Either get fed and carry or try to draw as much attention to your worthless ass in sideline...

Lee? Literally gets 1v1ed by Seju or J4... (good Lees never fall off)

Elise? 49% wr from 25 mins and only going down from that point.

I think you meant, late game picks come online in midgame for whatever reason(eg every meta adc)

The thigh guy13 votes

{quoted}

Except Rene(duo to SoS) all of these fall off to some extent.

Lucian? Really? No reason to pick him over Sivir, Xayah, Ez, Jinx, bcs of scaling.

Talon? Either get fed and carry or try to draw as much attention to your worthless ass in sideline...

Lee? Literally gets 1v1ed by Seju or J4... (good Lees never fall off)

Elise? 49% wr from 25 mins and only going down from that point.

I think you meant, late game picks come online in midgame for whatever reason(eg every meta adc)

Lucien builds crit. So he scales by default. And remember his passive gives him effective doubled attackspeed. He physically can’t fall off if played right.

Lee. Cool. He loses to current ops? Like everyone else?

Elise. After 25 minutes. With average game times of 25 minutes? That IS the late game. :/

GripaAviara3 votes

They fall off hard. The problem is gold

Kill gold is so valuable compared to farming. Not only that but a champion like that also stops you from farming efficently. They also probably taken turret plates, which are imho a stupid snowbally concept.

So 30 min in you get 3 items and they have full build. Ofc you can't do anything against them

DangerousOreo2 votes

{quoted}

They fall off hard. The problem is gold

Kill gold is so valuable compared to farming. Not only that but a champion like that also stops you from farming efficently. They also probably taken turret plates, which are imho a stupid snowbally concept.

So 30 min in you get 3 items and they have full build. Ofc you can't do anything against them

Literally see this all the time in low elo, especially with the snowbally assasins that are strong right now (Talon Katarina ) they will have like 2-3 cs a minute but 17 kills and just be better off farming champions then actually playing the game

voidscaler3 votes

Imo that's the one good change riot has done in the last few years I never liked the idea of champions who were useless post 20 minutes, or champions who were useless until 20minutes had passed I'm fine with champions being strong scalers, or strong early game, bit I don't want to feel like instantly surrendering the moment we hit 25 minutes and haven't won yet because they have a vayne on their team, the game should be won on player skill, not because it's 30 minutes in and they just happen to have X champion on their team who is unbeatable post 30 minutes

Kovorix3 votes

And late game champs aren't weak early.

Froot2 votes

I agree with champions like Renekton not falling off, seeing as they're still OP late game. Lee and Elise however fall off just fine?

Pika Fox2 votes

No, they still fall off.

Lucian has garbage range, and cant get around that. He can still do well as he has damage, but he lacks that innate trait.

Early game =/= useless late game.

gitgudetama1 votes

But he can get around that, especially now with the culling buff and a item 3094 he can easily chunk out enemies or turn a teamfight.

It's also important to note that early game can equal a useless late game against a late game laner, after a while your laner will eventually scale up to meet you and stomp you either by the mistakes of your team as a whole or the mistakes of you as a player. Not all games are determined by the 15 minute mark for a reason, except if you lose nexus by 14:59

[sg-lulu]

Pope Guilty VIII2 votes

For Renekton it's more like Spear of Shojin doesn't fall off late game, not Renekton himself not falling off late game. Sorry for the double negative

hoganftw2 votes

New League of Legend players: What is this Mid Game and Late Game you speak of?

DJisKxng2 votes

Yea, no.. Lucian gets cucked late cause every late game fight he will be close quarters and get oneshot no matter how fed, his ult only serves his usefulness late which is mediocre tbh. Talon is prob the worst example you can make, he literally has only 3 abilities late. (E has no scaling nor any real reason to level up at all). He also does only physical dmg, also his itemization is terrible for late game as well. Maybe zed could be a better argument but if you see talons carrying late game then something is wrong with you and your team

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, no.. Lucian gets cucked late cause every late game fight he will be close quarters and get oneshot no matter how fed, his ult only serves his usefulness late which is mediocre tbh. Talon is prob the worst example you can make, he literally has only 3 abilities late. (E has no scaling nor any real reason to level up at all). He also does only physical dmg, also his itemization is terrible for late game as well. Maybe zed could be a better argument but if you see talons carrying late game then something is wrong with you and your team

You lose any as soon as you said there is no reason to level up Lucien’s e. The ability is insanely strong.

DJisKxng1 votes

I meant talons E

Kiwi Lemonade1 votes

Most of my games end by 20 minutes, so I haven't been able to notice, lol.

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