http://euw.op.gg/champion/sona/statistics/support
Just so you know that's lower then the average winrate she has held for the last year, she held a consistent 53-54% during the Ardent meta and was not seen as a problem
Just food for thought considering she has quite a devastating nerf coming her way in the PBE, perhaps one could hold the opinion that it may be a little overkill for her current position on live
Dasdi9624 votesAppearently 52% winrate is considered “weak” for sona lmao.
Rainfall8 voteslogic and janna/sona/lux mains are incompatible.
ªTeemo16 votesSona could have a 60% winrate and sona mains would be like "she's fine don't nerf her she needs a small buff at most"
RedCyclone4 votesNot everyone is the same, I get that people percieve every nerf as shock horror
But I will 100% admit that Sona at the start of this preseason was ungodly overpowered and deserved some nerfs...and she got them
Dasdi962 votes[{quoted}](name=JIHADIST TEEMO,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A3utk4z6,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-11-24T20:24:51.110+0000)
Sona could have a 60% winrate and sona mains would be like "she's fine don't nerf her she needs a small buff at most"
Yeah, meanwhile if lee sin reaches 50% winrate this place explodes with lee sin qq.
RedCyclone3 votesI wouldn't say 52% is considered weak for her, but she has a very simple and easy to apply playstyle that naturally ups her winrate and also attracts waifulads who just stick to playing Sona and play her with dedication
Let's just say that if Sona falls below 50%, it will be the first time this phenomenon has happened in like 5 years
feeding time6 votesI'm rather biased here; I hate her guts. Annoying, skilless support that does more damage than the ADC.
Keep the nerfs coming.
RedCyclone4 votesCool opinion, thanks for adding so much perspective
I remember a time when Support was the role to protect and defend the weak ass early ADC so they can become a powerhouse later on, now it's just considered unusual when a Support can output more damage early then a ADC
feeding time1 votesNo no, you misunderstand.
I believe Sona does more damage that her ADC regardless of the game length. Early, middle, late, you name it.
RedCyclone2 votesOnly if she has a significant lead If the ADC knows how to play though, they will deal more overall damage because they end up with 100% 1k+ crits firing off twice a second Sona deals burst damage and has to recharge her passive to go in for another round, I play a ton of AP Sona and I do get games where I have top damage dealt, but those games are usually when I have a not so great ADC and I am getting a bunch of kills
In most cases when I have an ADC who knows what they are doing it is very difficult to hold damage on them, even if you are constantly poking, because just like all burst damage it gets surpassed by ADC autos later on
You also forget to mention that a AP Sona build is super risky and you can easily die by eating a single hard CC
feeding time1 votesWait wait wait
Are you saying that her usual build isn't squishy?
RedCyclone1 votesI will argue that AP Sona has to be pretty prevalent near the front line to be effective while a more Ardent/Redemption Sona will always be at the backline where it is much more difficult to get to her
feeding time1 votesI see what you're saying, but it's the play style that makes AP Sona much more risky, not the build.
Pika3102 votesIf you're buying Lich Bane and Echo and NOT playing on the front line, you've thrown away 6k gold. The AP scaling on Sona's heal is abhorrently low, you aren't getting the utility that comes from Forbidden Idol items and you aren't utilizing Lich and Echo's artificial damage.
On the other hand, if you're stacking Forbidden Idol items, Sona's "damage" becomes the worst in the entire game. Sona has the worst bases and scalings of any support champ, which is further hindered by the fact you aren't gaining much in the way of AP anyways from Forbidden Idol items. Sitting in front with a Censer is begging the enemy to farm your Sona-shaped gold-filled pinata ass.
The item build and playstyle are one and the same. You can't do one without the other.
ZephyrDrake3 votesNo no, you misunderstand.
I believe Sona does more damage that her ADC regardless of the game length. Early, middle, late, you name it.
if you actually truly believe this then i feel sorry for whoever is that ADC. Sona does not do more damage than her ADC or any non tank champion in the game. If Sona somehow is able to consistently walk forward and Q+auto someone in the face without any fear of turnaround then at that point the game is just over since people are just running away from everything.
feeding time1 votesYou'll have to excuse my opinion; I generally play in Bronze elo where that's rather common.
Pika3101 votesThat explains a lot. Literally the only elo where (as GhostCrawler so aptly called them) bronze champs like Garen, Sona and Yi are allowed by Rito to "flourish."
Penns4 votesShe should get nerfed to show dem sona mains and because she opie hehe
AirKingNeo3 votes[Sona] held a consistent 54% during the Ardent meta and was not seen as a problem
No, she didn't. Are you thinking Lulu and Rakan?
RedCyclone3 votesI know for a fact it hovered around 53%, I remember Janna mains trying to point to Sona being a problem too but Sona had a little less w/r and way less pickrate
Pika3102 votesNot to mention Janna was pick/ban in pro play, alongside Lulu. Whereas Sona was a troll pick. Just like she has been since 4.13.
Jack Garrus2 votesNo prob: meta abusers have always a solution ^^
Primaquarius2 votesSona nerfs on the way? I definitely need to find a new role then...
Pika3101 voteshttp://euw.op.gg/champion/sona/statistics/support
Just so you know that's lower then the average winrate she has held for the last year, she held a consistent 54% during the Ardent meta and was not seen as a problem
Quite the contrary, matter of fact. She was at the very bottom of the list for Ardent-users. As Fnatic proved. Her heal is uncontrollable, far from ideal for Censer usage. Meanwhile, her melee-range shield, with its one & half-second duration is a far cry from reliable. These on top of the shit bases for both, just made shield-buffing effects complete trash on her.
Sheeple didn't understand, it wasn't just the on-hit modifier that made Censer good. It was the heal/shield-buffing primarily making the item playable and then with the on-hit pushing over the line into "unbalanced." However Sona cannot utilize Forbidden Idol items and that's even more true now than before.
With Meddler's intentional knee-jerk nerf, he managed to piggyback on the sheeple misnomer that not only was she a "playable" character, but some-fucking-how "OP." Now that Aery is gone, he sees the seeds he sowed into his herd's cognition and feels safe in gutting her some more, without fear of severe community backlash.
Having been over 3 years since people have seen what a playable version of Sona looks like, they see Youtube vids of Lich Bane+Luden's Echo+Gunblade Sonas half-hping somebody with artificial scalings and Seraph's Embrace+RoA to not run out of mana. They don't understand that the character literally cannot do anything without all of these expensive non-support items.
Jbels5 votesQuite the contrary, matter of fact. She was at the very bottom of the list for Ardent-users. As Fnatic proved. Her heal is uncontrollable, far from ideal for Censer usage. Meanwhile, her melee-range shield, with its one & half-second duration is a far cry from reliable. These on top of the shit bases for both, just made shield-buffing effects complete trash on her.
Sheeple didn't understand, it wasn't just the on-hit modifier that made Censer good. It was the heal/shield-buffing primarily making the item playable and then with the on-hit pushing over the line into "unbalanced." However Sona cannot utilize Forbidden Idol items and that's even more true now than before.
With Meddler's intentional knee-jerk nerf, he managed to piggyback on the sheeple misnomer that not only was she a "playable" character, but some-fucking-how "OP." Now that Aery is gone, he sees the seeds he sowed into his herd's cognition and feels safe in gutting her some more, without fear of severe community backlash.
Having been over 3 years since people have seen what a playable version of Sona looks like, they see Youtube vids of Lich Bane+Luden's Echo+Gunblade Sonas half-hping somebody with artificial scalings and Seraph's Embrace+RoA to not run out of mana. They don't understand that the character literally cannot do anything without all of these expensive non-support items.
I agree with everything you say, but I felt like I needed to give my opinion on the last paragraph. Sona's ability to do that much damage single target would be seen as toxic on literally any other kit, and it is my personal belief that Sona should have gotten a full gameplay update instead of the mini rework she got. She's been a walking ball of stats since her update, and not only is that boring design, it's generally unbalance-able. Sona in her current state will always be too strong and oppressive, or too weak and worthless.
Pika3102 votesExcept the point I was making, is that literally ANY champion can buy artificial scalings and 1-shot people. Even if that champion themself doesn't scale with the item. I've done AP Kalista with Luden's Echo into Nashor's Tooth before and still managed obscene burst damage. Kalista doesn't have AP scalings.
Any support could buy a "Sona item build" and put out even more damage than Sona, because Sona factually has amongst the worst scaling of the support class. Most of those other supports even have single-target effects just as well, Sona isn't unique in this regard. The reason we don't see that is because other supports have usable kits and don't have to resort to ch33z builds to compensate.
Having said that, you've hit the nail on the head. Patch 4.13 and in turn patch 6.14 even more so, have turned Sona into a "walking stat-ball" and unbalanceable. Of course the main culprit for both of these failures being her R passive and Rito repeatedly gutting her to compensate for that passive. Which by nature is inherently counter-intuitive to basic support design anyways and should be scrapped.
Gubaguy1 votesI always play sona with klepto, becuase having more gold then my carry is hilarious.
Wînter Fox1 votesGut her.