Anyone Else Feel like Nasus Has Lost His Identity?

Meep Man·Aug 19, 2016·26 votes·1,866 views

In previous Seasons, Nasus was known as the extremely strong, late game threat that rocks the board and wrecks some fools late game with his giant cane. However, in recent times, as champions become more and more insane with how much damage they can deal if they play properly and are rewarded with built-in mechanics in their kit, Nasus feels less and less special. Before, Nasus was really the only Top Laner known to deal above 1000 damage in one ability/basic attack. Now, a decent little crowd of champions can deal tons of damage and Nasus' stack mechanic feels more like a restricting chore that really only gives him the upper hand in killing towers. I feel like Nasus has really lost his identity as the infinite scaling Bruiser and could use some looking into for giving him back his identity.

58 Comments

SwiftKitten88Aug 19, 201612 votes

nasus kinda lost is edge when the damage skyrocketed across the board.

he still does as much and he still is a tanky... but its just not really that much higher than most other champs anymore.. and because nasus needs to farm for so long to reach that point and can easily be denied. he just isn't as good as he used to be.

Great OzymandiusAug 19, 20163 votes

Also, the offensive keystones do not benefit Nasus. Nasus can stack a lot of damage but he does not build ad or ap, so thunderlords does not work well on him. And he doesn't stack autos quickly enough for fervor to be good on him.

Pierce The VealAug 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2Nbox7E,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-19T08:43:32.044+0000)

Also, the offensive keystones do not benefit Nasus. Nasus can stack a lot of damage but he does not build ad or ap, so thunderlords does not work well on him. And he doesn't stack autos quickly enough for fervor to be good on him.

That's why you go warlords for offense, or bomd of stone/300 hp keystone.

I don't see the problem.

kile147Aug 19, 20161 votes

I've been using Stormraiders Surge because it makes him so much harder to kite, and you can usually proc it with one Q.

Meep ManAug 19, 20161 votes

I used Warlord's for life steal, although it might not be worth taking anymore since the nerfs.

kile147Aug 19, 20162 votes

Since you need multiple hits to get advantage of it it has never seemed worth it to me since you will rarely get more than one or two on an enemy. Grasp seems like a better choice for this because it'll give you better Q trades in lane.

Photos of GhostsAug 20, 20161 votes

I always use Grasp on juggernauts.

Pierce The VealAug 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've been using Stormraiders Surge because it makes him so much harder to kite, and you can usually proc it with one Q.

Yeah that works too. Along with swifties it's gonna be a pain to stop you.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 19, 201610 votes

there is so much damage even when my nasus top laner is full tank and 3-4 levels ahead of everyone on the enemy team gets ganked and dies in 4 seconds.

yes you hear me repeat the same thing but tanks and bruisers can't survive unless they have some mobility like ekko or fizz to dodge away from damage.

even a full farmed nasus. 1k stacks. all it takes. is a single morgana snare and he get his ass whopped by Jhin Ahri Graves

nobody can actually yolo juggernaut running man challenge into the enemy team anymore unless your bullshit ahead and even then some cc and you die before u lifesteal or sustain.

CeexSettAug 19, 20162 votes

I don't really think running yolo 1v5 draintanking everyone is actually healthy, so tanks and bruisers who do it should be punished.

And the 3 champions you listed are some of the worse. Ahri has one of the lowest damage for a AP mid (trades it for security), Graves sucks at killing tanks, and Jhin is one of the worst adcs at killing tanks as well.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 19, 20161 votes

being melee you have no choice but to frontline as a tank and drain some damage. if you're gonna sit at the back well why are you playing a melee then and why are you on nasus. might as well pick up a utility tank

CeexSettAug 19, 20161 votes

Being a frontline =/= 1v5 yolo as you yourself said. One thing is going with the team tanking some damage. The other is 1v5 drain tanking everyone. The first is the normal routine of a tank. The second is broken BS. It is what drain tanks do when too strong/fed/both.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 19, 20161 votes

i didnt mean 1v5. but even 1v3 when ahead isn't plausible anymore unless your hypermobile.

also how fast a tank can blow up gives the enemy every reason to focus you even in a team fight as a tank and kill you. because your the easiest target. i didn't mean run in a 1v5. but taking that damage is enough to delete a tank.

CeexSettAug 19, 20161 votes

Well, if the entire enemy team is focusing you, you should obviously die, right?

Unless you are ulted Alistar (and even then...), tanks are not invincible and should be brought down with the combined effort of the enemy team.

Plus the mobile "tanks" are actually the least tanky. Tank Ekko isn't as tanky as people make him be, and focused fire from the enemy adc and a buiser forces him to ult in 4-5seconds. Real tanky tanks like Maokai Malphite Rammus Braum last way longer than that, unless focuses by the entire enemy team, because that is their weakness, focused fire.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 19, 20161 votes

your too stupid or you don't get the point. so i will stay it out loud.

THESE TANKS SHOULDN'T SURVIVE FOR EVER. HOWEVER. THE PUNISHMENT THE OTHER TEAM SHOULD GET FOR FOCUSING THE TANK. IS LOSING THE TEAM FIGHT. HOWEVER. TANKS DIE SO FAST. THE OTHER TEAM HAS NO TIME TO REACT TO PUNISH THE ENEMY TEAM

i remember in season fucking 5 when you get punished for focusing tanks and everyone used to be like "dont focus the mundo. don't focus the rammus. focus the back line"

nobody fucking says that anymore. all i see is hell breaking loose in every team fight.

CeexSettAug 19, 20161 votes

If you are telling your carries to focus the enemy backline then you are the stupid one. You need to focus the closest target to you, which normaly means the diver or the tank.

And since when doe focusing the tank lead to losing the teamfight?? Isn't he a real champion you have to kill? Are you seriously still stuck to the mentality of "FOCUS CARRY TO WIN IGNORE THE OTHERS"?

A real teamfight has the carry killing EVERYONE, not the enemy carry. So focusing the tank is actually something to be done, so he can be brought down quickly and the enemy team loses the tank's durability and CC.

BârdAug 19, 20166 votes

Nasus has never been much of a threat lategame.

While infinite damage scaling into lategame gave him a great midgame damage source (and that did NOT fall off into lategame), the champion himself fell off slightly in terms of actual usefulness.

If he can't get in range to Q you, the only things he could do were slow you or deal a little bit of magic damage. Lategame, QSS and Mikaels exist, so his slow gets fucked a bit, and his E becomes useless save for its armor pen. Until that point, he can easily slow you, run up, and bop your ADC for 1150 damage.

None of this is new.

Nasus never "Lost" his identity, it just got shared around. He was the original Juggernaut, so when four others got put into the game, he became a bit less unique.

Yeah, he is weaker than he used to be. He was a serious abuser of FON and Runic Bulwark, so those items getting cut hurt him. Crit Nasus was fun while it lasted, but seriously too dumb.

He plays the same way he always has; that playstyle simply hasn't aged well, since people who do similar things, only better, have been added.

Nasus can drain tank with his passive and Q, can splitpush like a beast, and dueling him past midgame is suicide, but he struggles against groups of 3+, especially if they have CC. This is the way he has always played, it hasn't really changed. Maybe change out FON and Bulwark for Zz'rot and Deadmans.

Meanwhile, you COULD play Darius, who draintanks better with his Q, and while he can also be kited, he ISN'T screwed over by QSS, and he can even destroy a 3 man party.

Robins TightsAug 19, 20161 votes

You started with "Nasus has never been much of a threat lategame". Ugh, idk about you but in 2010 and then 2012, he was a god and used all the time. Irelia, GP and Rumble used to be his only counters.

LankPantsAug 19, 20161 votes

I don't know about 2010, but in 2013 (which was actually when Nasus was seeing play) Nasus jungle was being played entirely off the back of Wither. He wasn't picked for his late game, he was played because he survived the ridiculous S3 jg with his lifesteal and Wither was absurd. I don't rember Nasus ever being played in S2, I doubt he'd handle the picks like Vlad and Kennen who were popular throughout most of it.

Nasus has also always been a soft counter to Irelia because his W shuts down her ability to do much of anything to him.

BârdAug 19, 20161 votes

Irelia and Rumble were good against him (GP was OK), but others crammed into the team could fuck him up.

Morgana could root him so he was unable to run and spellshield his wither Old Heimerdinger could not only slow the shit out of the cane, but had a Blind to fuck him up. Could also set up one turret under tower in another lane to stop pushes. Turrets were free stacks, so Laning Heim vs Nasus was not the best plan. Alistar could keep Nas off his team, and can ult to tank as much damage as Nas can throw out Nunu Good luck reaching anybody with these slows and the pre-nerf blood boil Teemo not a good pick in general, but has always been fun against Nasus. Fiddlesticks cough cough 3 second fear cough cough Kassadin just countered everybody at the time. Vayne pretty obvious. Rengar Remember the whole "First blood into tier 2 turret" thing? Yeah. An early game Nasus is pretty vulnerable to that. Olaf Old versions of Olaf could fuck up Nasus. Immune to disables, heavy Physical, Magic, and True damage, Durable (gained both damage based on max HP and innate resists), permaslow, early game "fight me". Ryze There is a reason why this fucker has had so many reworks.

ArakadiaAug 20, 20161 votes

Old Heimer had a blind? On what ability?

BârdAug 20, 20161 votes

Instead of slowing targets outside the stun area, His grenade blinded them.

It moved much more slowly, but also had about double it's current AOE (though if I recall correctly, the stun area was about the same).

colesyAug 19, 20164 votes

nasus has never been a lategame champion, stop spreading that myth around.

Great OzymandiusAug 19, 20162 votes

He used to be. Now he is a midgame champion.

colesyAug 19, 20161 votes

how did he used to be? his entire kit screams mid game.

Meep ManAug 19, 20161 votes

In seasons past, Top Lane was even more of an island and Nasus could get more stacks. The games also were usually a little bit longer, plus lane bullies were usually never as durable as they are now days. Nasus also used to have 15/20/25% life steal instead of 10/15/20% life steal.

Not to mention this was before the Juggernaut update, upon which every Jugg could do a Nasus burst mid-late game.

colesyAug 19, 20161 votes

that still doesn't answer the question. nasus is strongest in the midgame when he has raw tank items, the enemy has no percentage penetration or stunbreaks and fights are still mostly skirmishes rather than full blown team fights.

when players start grouping up properly and pick up percentage pen and stunbreaks (so... late game), nasus is useless because he can't even reach the backline. that's why he sucks lategame right now and has always sucked late game. sure, nice 10000 stacks but if you can't even get near the adc it doesn't do anything.

Robins TightsAug 19, 20161 votes

That's not true, he was THE #1 late game champion in 2010. and then He had a resurgence 2 years later. During these times Rylai's Amumu was also a Go to. He used to be Tryndamere's only offensive counter, arguably Critplank before the lvl 1 nerf.

Meep ManAug 19, 20161 votes

Oh and I forgot to mention that his R used to also increase the cast range of his W and E, granting him 200ish increased range which allowed him to always have a slow on the enemy carry. He lost that soon after he was popular. Also, his Attack Speed slow used to be equal to the Movement Speed slow on Wither. So, late game, Nasus used to transition from 1-Shot Man to Heavy Hitter with Strong Debuffs. He was very strong late game before, but now he is just a Tower Eater.

colesyAug 19, 20161 votes

so like I said, loses when players pick up stunbreaks.

what argument are you even trying to make?

Meep ManAug 19, 20161 votes

That he used to be a late game threat in some way, whether through damage without CC or utility with CC. A 95% Attack Speed Slow that built up over 5 seconds was actually REALLY GOOD! Now, he is only damage in late game that these days isn't even all that amazing since other Juggernauts have such huge potential nukes.

colesyAug 19, 20161 votes

so late game he used to have damage that he couldn't apply, and cc that just ate a stunbreak?

so again, how was he good late game?

Meep ManAug 19, 20161 votes

What do you mean ate a stun break? You mean a cleanse? That's kind of an unreliable counter with how low of cool down Wither has with CDR. If it was that simple, it wouldn't have been nerfed.

colesyAug 19, 20161 votes

a qss. and no, it's not unreliable. if the adc is positioning correctly and is with their team they'll break your cc and be able to kite and then kill you in between your cooldown from the first wither and your second one.

specter424Aug 19, 20163 votes

his identity is a tumor and it hasnt changed he has the potential to grow if unchecked and kills the game if it reaches terminal cancer

Meep ManAug 19, 20161 votes

Ok, sure, but throw a single strong slow his way in a fight and he is immediately put in check by the enemy team. The problem these days is not that, but that Nasus is no longer seen as the late game king that he was before. He is just seen as the farmer Top Lane that shows up after 20 minutes in Middle Lane, makes a splash, and then team fights start and then he is back to being just painfully mediocre for the rest of the game. Not saying make him OP, but a Nasus with tons of stacks used to be a game changer. Now he is just a different breed of Darius.

kile147Aug 19, 20161 votes

Stormraiders Surge > Slow

LankPantsAug 19, 20161 votes

He is just seen as the farmer Top Lane that shows up after 20 minutes in Middle Lane, makes a splash, and then team fights start and then he is back to being just painfully mediocre for the rest of the game.

Nasus has kind of always worked this way.

GarthBrooksIVAug 19, 20162 votes

I feel like nasus' new identity is a worthless piece of shit in 80-90% of games. Quicker games this season probably isnt helping him much.

KoKobotoAug 19, 20161 votes

Yeah I feel Nasus late game isn't even that good, so what he has 1000 stacks? It's not like he's gonna be killing any tanks soon and he has no defensive steroids other than his ultimate.

Meep ManAug 19, 20163 votes

Yeah. Nasus' kit sounds amazing when you read it, but then you think about it for a bit...

No Gap Closers
No Hard Crowd Control
Almost No Scaling Other Than Stacks
Only One Defensive Cool Down tied to Ultimate
Only Way to Deal with Tanks is 55 Flat Armor Pen on an Active Ability, which Is More Helpful Against Squishies
Must Build Tank or Dies Nearly Instantly Due to Being Focused and Kited
Only Way to Scale Effectively Forces You to Often Be Separate From Your Team (Minion Assists Don't Give Stacks)
Has Sustain

Then you compare it to someone like Darius...

No Gap Closers (still)
Has Hard Crowd Control
Tons of Scaling
Has a Defensive Cool Down That is Also an Offensive Cool Down
Has 25% Armor Penetration Innately, Plus Ultimate Deals True Damage
Still Must Build Tank, but Scaling Allows for a Bruiserish Build and Passive Provides Tons of Stats
Is Encouraged to Be With His Team
Has Sustain

Wow! Who should I pick here!?

MunchCrunchLunchAug 20, 20161 votes

unlike nasus darius is not a bad team fighter. he actually wants team fights to get the resets and deal damage while drain tanking outside melee range. and darius base stats are much higher. and darius has hard cc with his pull. its quite useful for a juggernaut.

Critmaster GarenAug 19, 20161 votes

they need to give him some updated juggernaut scalings. get rid of uneccessary ap scalings in his kit and replace them by health scalings and ad scalings.

it feels like his kit is all over the place. most of it scales with ap and deals magic damage, while he prefers to itemize and focus on ad/defense. it hurts his lategame where neither armor penetration nor magic penetration is really available to him.

for example instead of scaling with ap, his ult should deal 1% of his own max health in true damage per second (adds up to 15%).

the effect is barely noticable by lategame due to mr values on champions and him not building magic pen.

THE RlVER KlNGAug 19, 20161 votes

Well in the lore he's like an aged, albeit powerful, master strategist.

In game he just hits you with a stick over and over, dealing more damage as he kills more. You'd think that would be his brother's niche, as the savage battle commander.

MadManApocalypseAug 19, 20161 votes

He really needs a new stack mechanic. I read one about making each Stack work for his E AND Q, but would only be 1-2 each, think it could give him the power he'd need.

God RaijinAug 20, 20161 votes

I feel like Nasus Should have some kind of % armor pen as the game gets later. Even though he "scales infinitely " he really doesn't considering that games are probably shorter than ever right now. and he even loses duels late game to champions like Darius Fiora if they've built any armor. The fact that champions like darius can rip your armor with item 3071 and an extra 25% on his E means that he still does damage to you but you don't really to him. It just seems like other champions can beat him out in a split push situation. Even champions like Malphite take no damage from Nasus and can clear the waves, makes splitting very difficult, yet by far yield better overall preformance in teamfights.

If he can't solo kill /proceed to take towers from popular/common toplaners, then he really isn't good for much anything. Cuz he sure isn't very good in teamfights