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I'm gonna try to stop being biased and put out the real problems from the Marksmen update

Sasogwa··12 votes·1,225 views

I've been putting a lot of hate on Marksmen, mostly because as a guy that loves to play melee champions that usually get quite kited, being kited and melted is not fun at all. But I think there are problems with this update. And I'll try to say the biggest problems without blind hate or obvious bias. And I'm gonna tell you, as dumb as it may seem,** the problem is not so much the items**. IE, BT are getting AD nerfs, phantom dancer, despite giving %damage reduction, gives less attack speed, less critchance. RapidFire Cannon is very similar to PD or SS. Death's Dance is mostly an AD caster item. Mercurial, Trinity changes and Essence Reaver look a bit too biased towards some ADCs, that's... annoying but borderline ok. The new last whisper upgrades are extremely biased towards squishy champions, but actually give similar values of pen to the current last whisper against other champions. The grievous wounds one is absolutely retarded and basically pushes out of viability sustain champions, but that's situational and fixable. (make it more of an active window, not a thing that works on every single auto for 5 seconds, wtf)

What's really troubling? The base AD buff. This... is huge. I don't think you realize how crazy this is. ADC's are getting around 6 to 8 bonus base AD means they will completely destroy any melee champions in sololane. This is a crazy buff. Well played, sololane ADC's are already a real pain to deal with. Riot just made them completely win lane automatically. They outtrade you in melee. Oh, they could get cull and have less AD, farm out. Or they could simply get Doran's blade and sh*t on you. We've been through this kind of thing. The concept of lanebully hypercarries, you know... Like Yasuo on release, Cassiopeia at a certain point in her rework. People that have insane scaling, but also destroy you in lane... It just, doesn't work. No matter how many times you'll try to put it. Stop trying.

The other problem? The mastery for crits. This mastery is literally insane in terms of scaling. Like, come on, did Riot even think of champions like Yasuo when releasing that? 15% lifesteal on crits and 20% bonus as for 4 seconds. It is insane. It just outclasses other keystone masteries so badly it's not even funny.

9 Comments

Hayaishi29 votes

Well played Quinn and Vayne are annoying for melee champions. And that is because Vayne and Quinn are oppressive.

Everyone else gets destroyed by gap closers, ever tried to go Varus/Jinx/Ashe/Ezreal/Lucian vs Wukong? or Irelia? Jax? Olaf? 5 more AD isn't going to change that.

As always melee players blow everything out of proportion.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Well played Quinn and Vayne are annoying for melee champions. And that is because Vayne and Quinn are oppressive.

Everyone else gets destroyed by gap closers, ever tried to go Varus/Jinx/Ashe/Ezreal/Lucian vs Wukong? or Irelia? Jax? Olaf? 5 more AD isn't going to change that.

As always melee players blow everything out of proportion.

Well the thing retaining other adc's to go toplane is that they get outtraded as soon as both are melee. With the current buffs, they are going to have similar AD, and usually, since they're range they can go a bit safer and stay inside their minions while zoning you, so you will take more damage from minions if you try to all in them. It is however right that the most oppressive are Quinn and Vayne because they have very good selfpeel kits. Still, that's concerning. If those are played toplane, they will be much more bullying than before. The other adcs now are also quite viable in sololane. As for midlane, well I guess either assassins or other Marksmen, since mages got gutted.

Sire Hippington2 votes

last time i played lucian vs irelia, she had 30 cd at 10min and i was 2 level ahead...If your not an adc player migrateing to top, but an toplaneplayer that occasionall plays adc top, you know pretty well how to hadle such lane matchups. Sure, picking an escapeless adc into the long lane vs an melee with good gapclosein/sticking tools isn't the smartest idea, but most adc actually have the needed tools for that. The only real weakness for adc top are ganks. It's easy for an jax to force out your escape right befor his jungler shows up, and even if not, they can easily go for an 2v1 towerdive if one off them has fullhealth, as they should be able to blow you up in 1-2sec from fullhealth.

BluePolarizer3 votes

Next season meta:

Top: Graves vs. Quinn Jungle: Kindred vs. Twitch Mid: Yasuo vs. Varus Bot lane carry: Kalista vs. Ashe Bot lane support: Thresh vs. Janna

The great diversity: 3 ADC, 1 melee fighter and 1 support, vs. 4 ADCs. LCS big plays!

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

base ad buff is here to make sure that melee carries won't be played against them with the new items

and op,you forgot something. EVERY ITEMS in the game are nerfed to make ADC more powerful

ProfDrDeath1 votes

I second that notion.

Somebody should ask this question in the next open forum discussion.

thumbnail91 votes

Well there is one benefit that comes out of this: Frozen mallet is cheap now.

Darth Valer1 votes

I agree on the buff on base AD. I didn't understand it and I haven't found Riot's context on that.

The Grevious Wound seems a little off (5 seconds on physical damage is extremely retarded design, wtf) but there are three factors that stabilize it: the strong buffs to sustain in the defence tree, the the heal/shield empowering Keystone in the burst/utility branch, and the Grevious Wound effect being reduced to 40% sustain mitigation.

The heal-on-crit mastery didn't look extremely broken in my opinion.

What sucks in my opinion is the nerf to AD burst. Most assassins could go for item 3077 item 3134 item 3035 to ensure a steady growth of damage into the mid-game. Now it's much more difficult to pierce base armor since LW has been twisted in wicked ways and squishy AD bursting has become less "supported". (BC is for sustained damage) That really sucks in my opinion. Mpen has been "adjusted" in prices but you can still go item 3020 item 3136 item 3135 item 3001

Sire Hippington1 votes

From someone who plays sololane adc every now and then, i have to say that i disagree. Yes, 5 base ad seems terrifying and certainly is, but fact is, if played correctly(and picked in the correct matchup, like not trying to fight jax as kogmaw on a long lane), sololane-adc already totally shit on melees at top. It'S not as if those 5 ad now make the difference between adc beeing horrible matchups for melees or not, as they are already incredible oppresing if used well. It might tilt some of the few closer matchups like jax or irelia more towards adc, but thats about it. The main way of dealing with an sololane adc is ganking the shit out of them, and the 5 more ad will hardly change that. You can easily force out their escape by engagein on them, just befor your jungler walks in, or you simply dive them as you usually can kill them in 1-2 sec from fullhealth with jungle+mele-toplane. Don't get me wrong, i'm not a fan off that early ad-increase non the less.

On the other problem, my experience from pbe tells me that the other masteries are actually pretty strong aswell, though i didn't have all that long games, ind i can totally see why you'd think it outclasses other keystone masteries. But the dot is very potent on pokemages like brand, and the thunderlords decree adds some really noticeable burst to your normal rotations, the grasp off the undead really gives neat sustain fro tanky guys, Stormraider's Surge doesn't sound impressive at first, but belive me it is terrifyingif an Irelia gets 35%ms for 3 sec after jumping on you. And the Fervor of Battle is incredible powerfull, especially in the early lane. It adds 13-80 on-hit damage on maxstack, and you gain max stacks simply by hitting minions. 13 more damage on each AA at rank 1, thats huge! And 80 each AA at 18 is pretty damn good aswell.

What imo is the biggest ptoblem is that they exterminated prettymuch most somewaht viable no-crit builts on adc by reworking trinity, runaan'S and ER into crititems, makeing it even more of a RNG dictated class, while massively nerfing those items for any non-adc that did use them. The other big problem is that while adc do loose some ad and a tiniy bit as, they do get more crit, lifesteal and cdr, so their dps stays roughtly the same. However, every other class gets straight nerfs rather than staying somwhat neutral, which means compared to other clasees, adc clearly have a big advantage with those changes.

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