Veigar is getting nerfed the wrong way

Yuumi or Lose·Oct 15, 2015·23 votes·1,196 views

On PBE (which can be changed at anytime) Dark Matter base damage and ap ratio is getting nerfed. Dark matter isn't the problem. It's his ultimate that is an issue. His ultimate has no counterplay whatsoever towards ap mages. With the amount of damage stacked in his ultimate that punishes ap mages for doing good is the problem. The enemy can win lane early and then lose because of how well they did. What I suggest is taking away the 80% enemy ap as damage passive and raising the ap ratio on veigars ultimate. That way, the enemy mages does not get punished for doing well and veigar stands a better chance against ad mids. It's balance from both sides.

16 Comments

Big LincolnOct 15, 20157 votes

his ult has plenty of counterplay unless you're a short-range mage. at which point you'd probably lose to him anyway

The real problem is that he's too safe for how well he scales. His Q should be nerfed back to 850 range now that he's more reliable; this way he can't just sit safely out of most people's damage in lane

Spicy RiceOct 16, 20151 votes

the thing is, if he gets hit by anything, he is pushed out of lane.

Curling VeigarOct 15, 20157 votes

i second this, too bad it wont happen..

TrídentOct 16, 20157 votes

Agreed, nerfing W damage doesn't make any sense at all

alasarcherOct 15, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=AYY LMA0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9f7AUyZ5,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-15T20:16:39.045+0000)

On PBE (which can be changed at anytime) Dark Matter base damage and ap ratio is getting nerfed. Dark matter isn't the problem. It's his ultimate that is an issue. His ultimate has no counterplay whatsoever towards ap mages. With the amount of damage stacked in his ultimate that punishes ap mages for doing good is the problem. The enemy can win lane early and then lose because of how well they did. What I suggest is taking away the 80% enemy ap as damage passive and raising the ap ratio on veigars ultimate. That way, the enemy mages does not get punished for doing well and veigar stands a better chance against ad mids. It's balance from both sides.

His ultimate HAS counterplay. Its called Zhonyas. Build QSS and Zhonya, he E u, u QSS and zhonya his ulti.

PennsOct 15, 20156 votes

Honestly thats pathetic lol.

Cenobite AzazielOct 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

His ultimate HAS counterplay. Its called Zhonyas. Build QSS and Zhonya, he E u, u QSS and zhonya his ulti.

Sooo you build an AP item and a mr item with no other stats and no path just for defeating veigar... I hope there are more slots for you to waste with the rest of the team.

alasarcherOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9f7AUyZ5,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-10-15T21:04:52.811+0000)

Sooo you build an AP item and a mr item with no other stats and no path just for defeating veigar... I hope there are more slots for you to waste with the rest of the team.

Well if its draft pick you can go for Cleanse instead of QSS. But yes, any mage can do good with Sorcs/Zhonyas/Deathcap/void staff/ morello\athenes/ QSS

Kitten of EvilOct 16, 20151 votes

So you can use your QSS once per ... what, 90 seconds? How often is Veigar's stun up? But you're right, you'd basically need both QSS and Zhonyas, otherwise he'll E+W+Q+R you while you're stunned and you won't have time to Zhonya's.

alasarcherOct 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9f7AUyZ5,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2015-10-16T16:15:56.932+0000)

So you can use your QSS once per ... what, 90 seconds? How often is Veigar's stun up? But you're right, you'd basically need both QSS and Zhonyas, otherwise he'll E+W+Q+R you while you're stunned and you won't have time to Zhonya's.

Well we are talking here about team fights. You aint gonna go fighting veigar if your defenses arent up.

ErockandrollOct 16, 20152 votes

They won't touch his Identity as Anti AP.

They will look elsewhere.

IcyPepperOct 16, 20152 votes

With the amount of damage stacked in his ultimate that punishes ap mages for doing good is the problem.

No. It punishes them for building AP. Even if they're doing bad, more AP will mean more damage. It's just like how BORK doesn't punish tanks for doing well, it punishes them for stacking HP without armor. Except mages don't really have multiple stats to invest primarily into (tanks have choice and multiple ways to build). It's like the reverse of Riven's shield, and it feels equally bullshit on both ends.

Honestly, I never understood how Veigar is anti-AP. I'd rather not have enemy AP scaling damage (similar scalings is like %hp, or thornmail), even if you can build Athenes.

I'd rather have Veigar be the premier immobile caging burst mage, not some anti-AP champion. Anti-mobility good, anti-AP baaaad.

But that's just my opinion.

XealchimOct 15, 20151 votes

or build health ap items like idk item 3116 item 3027

MealReadytoEatOct 16, 20151 votes

I honestly think the E is the bigger issue - that thing gets down to an 8.4 second CD at level 5 with 40% CDR, leaving only a 4.9 second window of down time to punish him. And keep in mind he spent the 3.5 seconds prior running away from you when he missed.

He just fishes with it, then 100 to 0's you the one time it does land.

It should have at least a 16 second CD before CDR for its level of power.

MetalGearTeemuOct 16, 20151 votes

I'd be game for that if his Q and W were given a level of power matching other casters, rather then relying on his E to get anything done at all unless massively ahead.

The reason viegar has to fish with E is that if he moves forward at all without covering with stun he dies.

Even more-so now his laning is being nerfed, while Kindreds ult basically makes any kind of burst comp unviable if he's in game.

Lord BoltrixOct 16, 20151 votes

I think he need's to move from this Anti-Mage thing people have going for him and focus on what he is: massive burst, he is the quintessential burst mage.

I think what we could do something better than a cheap, point and click anti-mage nuke.

What if Primordial Burst was a short-ranged linear skillshot that exploded and dealt area of affect damage to everything in the blast radius, and Veigar has an, I dunno, 125% AP ratio on it?

However, and here is the kicker: if Veigar walks inside his Event Horizon and fires it, the Event Horizon enhances the attack somehow. Possibly increasing the nuclear capabilities and/or even expanding the blast beyond the walls to create a massive zone nuke instead?