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I'm starting to believe that the gameplay section of the boards is ignored

Chimpanzzi··36 votes·14,480 views

Hey. I'm Chimpanzzi. I play low elo support on EUW. I started playing the game back in season 5, when I also watched a lot of eSports and some high ranked play to understand the game better.

As time passed, I noticed a pattern. Every preseason some things were busted and a bit annoying (looking at you, lethality), and some persisted and made it through as a game mechanic.

But that's besides the point. Back in season 5 and 6 the support gameplay was far more engaging than it is today. Now I'm trying to save my carries by oneshotting the enemy carries as fast as possible, instead of shielding and trying to crowd control to save my teammates like before.

Meta has slowly shifted towards main tanks getting overrun by juggernauts and bruisers, then by assassins and AP "supports". Playing Thresh well isn't as satisfying and easy as it is to play AP Zyra and oneshot the enemy support or AD carry before they do so to you.

This also pushes the game into being "win early game or lose late game" -stylish. There will be no late game, if you don't survive through early game, making it even harder for tanks to prosper. There even was a point in which my team won solely because we had more Dark Harvest runes, hence more damage. There were 7 Dark Harvests in the match, 4 on our team, 3 on the enemy team. I played Zyra and easily slaughtered the enemy botlane 1 vs 2 at 18 minutes. There was no way for them to turn the tide of the game, nor did the turrets protect them at all. Just a friendly neighbourhood support popping in and popping out. No problem.

Could I just get the old utility supporting and tactical gameplay that required strategy and communication back instead of... this?

95 Comments

charge attack25 votes

I mean let’s be honest here. What does gameplay boards really provide Riot?

If they want to poll the “general populous” they can do in game surveys randomly which will give them a much healthier and properly randomized sample size.

If they want to ask pro players/high elo players/one tricks - they can do that for a more informed opinion (they do this - many high elo streamers have admitted to playtesting etc).

And even if they want to listen to look at some forums type thing - they have Reddit with 10x (or more) of the Boards population, with often vastly differing opinions. (Example: go on Reddit and people will say “anything is better than tank meta” and get some upvotes and some counterpoints that are also upvoted; here people act like “tank meta” was some god send and if you don’t acknowledge it then you get downvoted to hell ).

Add that to the fact that board’s hive mind is super easy to manipulate with the same 5-10 users that sit on “new” dictate what “the boards thinks” and then there’s just no reason to look at boards. (Example: you’ll probably never see a Morde in your games. But if you only looked at boards in Season 7 you’d think that every other player was a Morde main in this game).

Most of the boards population consists of people who literally just lost a game or had their role nerfed and are here to bitch. The second whatever they had a problem with gets fixed - do they stick around and say “thank you Riot - you did EXACTLY what we asked for” (example: assassin buffs earlier this season). Nope. They are long gone and make way for the new wave of people to cry about whatever change just happened.

Maybe, you’ll see someone (rarely) make a proper thread with actual points, which can be useful. But all the rage threads mean nothing to them.

dnsup3 votes

Your comment is mostly a mixture of personal opinion and 100% unsupported hypotheses/speculation.

Not a very effective strategy for understanding a thing.

Nevrankroaton3 votes

It is actual experience, everything this person said, I saw it too.

It is already proven that Riot do surveys along with communicating with pro/mains when it come to balance/rework/etc.

Reddit is honestly so much better than here because you REALLY have a variety of opinion. You find topic about the damage in the game, topic about how tank meta was bad or actually wasn't, etc. You don't have the hive mind.

Also the mordekaiser thing is true, I really came to appreciate Malicious Metal but god did the mords main spammed gameplay. The same way Shaco, Rengar or Leblanc main infested gameplay to try to push a narrative... At least Malicious Metal would always talk about what is toxic, about the goal during his previous rework, how it was made, etc.

Chimpanzzi2 votes

{quoted}

Reddit is honestly so much better than here because you REALLY have a variety of opinion. You find topic about the damage in the game, topic about how tank meta was bad or actually wasn't, etc.

It's unnecessarily hard to find posts that aren't esports related in the League Reddit. It seems like the majority of the discussion has moved here.

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

It is actual experience, everything this person said, I saw it too.

In actual fact of the matter, that doesn't change the (very basic) truth of what I said.

Guzergus6 votes

Exactly. Listening to boards is the same as listening to a crying baby who's upset they don't get what they want and sometimes have to actually put some effort and thought into what they do.

Starcraft243ver3 votes

Actually given that the gameplay section is litteraly full of shitty ideas which would kill the game in a few weeks i'm rather glad they completely ignore it.

Also you can remember the last time they listened to people (skarner s5) and it was an epic fail.

Chimpanzzi4 votes

Well, gathering opinions and finding the sweet middle line between two opposites could be an answer to a lot of problems.

Starcraft243ver3 votes

Or you can let professionnal game designer and balance team do their work which is based on statistics about litteraly millions of games and the input of progamers, people who have spent thousands of hours trainning to reach the limit of what can be done with this game.

Yeah i'm rather glad they do that rather than listening to some random people who spent thousands of hours playing without actually understanding the game, and who, most of the time, put 0 tough in their ideas.

Chimpanzzi2 votes

League is less and less fun with every insert champion here slaughtering me in less than a second. I don't mean to sound bitchy, but is there a way to talk about this topic in a sane tone of voice?

Seriously though, like I said: I miss the days when a team had to win a teamfight through communication and creative use of resources. Now, the winner of a teamfight is determined by targeting alone. If a team has longer cooldowns on their resources often used to shut down an enemy assassin, they lose. That's not fun, at least when the mentioned assassin dodges one spell rotation and then no longer has counterplay. The next thing is one very dead carry.

No wonder support equal to autofill these days.

Starcraft243ver2 votes

Seriously though, like I said: I miss the days when a team had to win a teamfight through communication and creative use of resources.

I've only played since season 4 and not at the highest level of play, but I never ever experimented things such as "creative use of ressources and winning through communication".

I think you really overestimate the amount of damages now compared to S5, in S5 i could dfg+R as veigar and os most squishies, In S5 you could W, dfg, Q, R as LB and OS a squishy, or just W, Q, R every 20 seconds. In s5 you could easily reach 900 AP on regular mages (not only veigar). Now you barely reach 600 AP late game.

The real difference between now and S5 were : the tanks were really tanky, but not in a fun way, tanky to the point you could see 3 to 6 tanks in a game. Tanky to the point you'd lose game in the lobby if the ennemy team took 3/4 tanks and you had no tank killer. (Vayne, kog, brand, cassio ...)

The other main difference is : cdr. We traded AP and AD for CDR. Back then we had to choose between cdr and AP. Now everything got LESS ap but more cdr. No more choice. You know what trading ap for cdr does ? It changes burst damages into more sustainable damages. And the counter of tanks is : sustainable damages.

Chimpanzzi1 votes

but I never ever experimented things such as "creative use of ressources and winning through communication".

Ahem. What I'm trying to imply is that currently you can just dodge a spell rotation and then oneshot a carry. While that applies to certain champions only, those champions often find themselves on the bans. It's really annoying to play against.

When I talk about season 5, I'm referring to my experience of balance. Mid laners did their job well, but not too well, jungle was way different, blast cones and scryer's blooms were not yet a thing, AD Carries did their job, but only if the support successfully peeled them.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

Ahem. What I'm trying to imply is that currently you can just dodge a spell rotation and then oneshot a carry. While that applies to certain champions only, those champions often find themselves on the bans. It's really annoying to play against.

Well if as a assassin you dodged a full spell rotation AND the carry was stupid enough to be in range, you deserve to kill the carry. What do you want him to do before being allowed to kill a carry ?

Chimpanzzi1 votes

Perhaps I misphrased. I strongly dislike an assassin being able to get away so easily. An Akali can just turret dive me and sit under the turret in her shroud.

A Talon can slaughter me and leap over the wall. If someone flashes behind him, he'll jump over another one.

A Lee Sin (probably intended as a bruiser but builds duskblade; therefore I qualify him as an assassin for this example) jumps in, then jumps out.

I don't mean to rant. I'm actually fascinated about arousing conversation. I thank you for that.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

That's the actual difference between a diver and an assassin.

An assassin has ways in and out of a fight so he can assassinate and get back to safety after his job is done. An assassin without ways out, given how fragile they are would just be a "suicide bomber".

Divers have only ways in (nocturne, vi, irelia, warwick, pantheon ...) and they have built in tankyness to keep fighting once they are in the middle of a fight.

PaffWasTaken5 votes

they have Reddit with 10x (or more) of the Boards population, with often vastly differing opinions

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.jpg

Reddit has been memed as the haven of ADCs for a good reason. They are the reason S7 turned into that item 3504 meta that nobody else wanted, so no thanks. They hate tank metas for the simple reason that, in contrary to the boards, they prefer powercrept damage to powercrept resistances. Both are quite unhealthy, but a more snowbally game with emphasis on damage tends to make a game feel more arcady and casual, which is pretty much the opposite of what made league popular; a previously strategic and in-depth game. Yes, the boards consist mainly of rage threads, but why is that so you may ask? Because of the simple reason that well defined threads with solid arguments who once existed were also ignored. There is no point in making something with in-depth criticism when the biggest shifts in the meta that the game ever saw were caused because of people saying "ADC in 2k17 LUL" or "Mages are more played in pro play than assassins, assassins therefore needs buffs".

Also, even if the proportion of morde players on the boards is higher than their proportion in game, does it instantly mean they should get ignored??

Hügö1 votes

Just look at the gameplay + board. Isn't it there for the good constructed and thought out threads? Still completly ignored by riot.

Starcraft243ver2 votes

Gameplay + board just began, It's actually an attempt from riot to start having interesting and though out threads, maybe in a few years it's going to be revelant.

TheobaldfS15 votes

And it should be. People are on here constantly whining about garbage teir champs like zed and saying marksmen don't need buffs even though karthus is the strongest bot lane pick in the game by a wide margin. Honestly riot is right to not consider boards for balance, they should however consider the opinions of high elo players considering no one on their balance team is higher than d5 so they clearly aren't the best at knowing whats really strong and what isn't.

Happy Love Pile1 votes

The balance team is all high diamond+ lol

Popperofski6 votes

They main the champions who are meta breaking right now and none of them have been hit with nerfs

Bias on their end? Yup

-5 MS (irelia) -3 AD (graves) -10 off W (leblanc) those kinds of nerfs shouldnt exist

Nevrankroaton3 votes

3AD isn't bad by any mean... It slow a jungle clear early, just taking one or two auto off a camp can make a huge difference in term of how fast you can clear and on how easily you can invade/contest scuttle.

Idc about arguing from the others but people need to stop acting like nerfing a little bit of AS or AD in jungle is "nothing".

TheobaldfS1 votes

No, they aren't. Even when meddler cherry picked the highest elo balance team members to prove a point the highest one was 800 games 49% winrate d4

Happy Love Pile1 votes

{quoted}

No, they aren't. Even when meddler cherry picked the highest elo balance team members to prove a point the highest one was 800 games 49% winrate d4

That's a blatant lie LOL https://youtu.be/jFHctj8awpQ?t=199 just look at that

TheobaldfS1 votes

So there is one masters player and a bunch of diamonds? That's fucking sad. The people who balance the game should all be d1-masters no exceptions.

Chimpanzzi2 votes

I just want to have some meaning in the gameplay, not facerolling and ending up with ridiculous oneshots. I'd like supports to be able play actual support champions.

Death by Glamour13 votes

you haven't been on the gameplay boards very long I take it, some of the veteran posters here likely know that we have been actively ignored/lied too for several years now.

Riot are pretty well known to tell us one thing here, then go ahead an do the exact opposite

FOR JUSTICE4 votes

im pretty sure riot admitted at one point reddit > this entire forum due to the fact that its just a giant echo chamber here, and reddit contains the majority of the internet based playerbase.

Death by Glamour9 votes

because reddit isn't a giant echo chamber...

Eedat7 votes

They both are but this board is straight up trash. Its kinda embarrassing that the mods let it exist in this state tbh

FOR JUSTICE5 votes

it is, but this one is just worse. this has much less voices, and 99% of threads here dont actually have coherent thought, and simply asking for a nerf on the FOTM champion grants upvotes without actually tackling any possible nerf ideas.

the shiniest of two turds as they say.

AugustHeatHaze3 votes

one thing about reddit is that its not just the main lol sub, you also have a sub for every champion and summonerschool, people like to act like reddit is just esports but

  1. its not you just have to look at the sub for longer than a minute and

  2. even if it was there are a bunch of subs that aren't about esports AT ALL

LTK KoRo6 votes

Boards are ignored for a reason, most of threads here are about "feelings" not about realistic balance problems.

Also when boards propose a change they usually fix one problem and create 10.

AugustHeatHaze2 votes

i'm not normally in favor of "reals no feels" but its actually something that works fine for videogame balance tbh

Pika Fox10 votes

The reason is because youre in low elo. High elo peel and protect support is still meta. Peel and protect at low ELO just wont ever be a real thing. Why bother protecting an adc thats likely worse than you are?

Kai Guy7 votes

If your looking to talk or interact with a red your going to want to hang out in Dev Corner We used to have some Reds who interacted frequently with the old forums and every now and then we see some pop in and chat here. End of the day thou its mostly a Player to Player interaction for gameplay.

Billy VoHagen3 votes

They should ignore the boards, because no one uses these things. None of the posts on the home page have more than 100 upvotes, so few people actually come on here that Riot has very little reason to look at it.

Ηuawei3 votes

Make Enchanter Supports Great Again.

Jokes aside, yes. I miss my main champions being impactful and not rage inducing.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Riot Maple just tweeted yesterday that they'll be looking at buffs to forbidden idol items as a way to incentivize enchanter play.

They will also be nerfing Zeke's, and rightfully so.

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

Riot Maple just tweeted yesterday that they'll be looking at buffs to forbidden idol items as a way to incentivize enchanter play.

They will also be nerfing Zeke's, and rightfully so.

My question, in that case, is: to what extent were those decisions made in light of things said on this part of the Boards? (If that can even be determined...)

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Eh.

I think it's more likely that the Boards sometimes correctly catches on to obvious trends in the meta. Enchanters aren't great right now.

EDIT: What I mean is, I think it's rare for Riot to take criticism on Boards and directly implement it. I think it does matter to them how the players are perceiving the game. That phrasing sort of implies to me that there is effort put into ignoring our feedback. Quite the opposite. They do want feedback, but there are also other places to get that feedback, like Reddit and Twitter.

We're pretty focused as a volunteer team on trying to figure out how Boards can contribute something unique to our community; Gameplay+ is part of that, and I highly encourage you to check it out if you haven't already. Curated content is something that Reddit and Twitter don't do.

But I don't think it's fair to say that Riot ignores us intentionally.

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

Eh.

I think it's more likely that the Boards sometimes correctly catches on to obvious trends in the meta. Enchanters aren't great right now.

EDIT: What I mean is, I think it's rare for Riot to take criticism on Boards and directly implement it. I think it does matter to them how the players are perceiving the game. That phrasing sort of implies to me that there is effort put into ignoring our feedback. Quite the opposite. They do want feedback, but there are also other places to get that feedback, like Reddit and Twitter.

Right, that's what I thought. I sort of believed, from your tone, that you had other information.

Chimpanzzi1 votes

Riot Maple just tweeted yesterday that they'll be looking at buffs to forbidden idol items as a way to incentivize enchanter play.

It seems we are in a slippery slope of buffs. Where are the nerfs? Where is the smart counterplay?

(I throroughly apologize if I seem rash. English is not my main language. I can't find many ways to say what I think.)

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I think, again, that's an unfair portrayal, given that they are nerfing zeke's at the same time.

How is that a slippery slope of buffs? Players are complaining about how hard it is to survive, so they are buffing enchanters. They are weak after a crippling round of nerfs to enchanter shields and massive hits to their itemization.

In the big picture. it shouldn't be seen as a buff so much as reverting some of the nerfs to those items (depending on what they decide to do).

Chimpanzzi1 votes

Only time will tell if this will change the way the game is headed currently. Thanks for the heads up ^^

(Zeke's nerf probably won't stop an assassin from bursting me down in less than a second though)

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I mean the Zeke's nerf has little to do with assassins. The Zeke's nerf proves that they are willing to nerf things that are OP, which seemed to me to be a separate point.

After seeing a burst-centric meta emerge, buffing the recently nerfed enchanters is a great response. I'm curious about what else you would want to happen, with enchanters ubiquitously having fallen quite a ways in the meta. To bring them back, you'd have to nerf a dozen other supports. I think that alone points to the fact that the issue is enchanters are underpowered, not that the others are overpowered for some reason. The supports that are better than enchanters are varied.

Chimpanzzi1 votes

I'm talking about the overloaded damage that's going on currently. Assassins can dodge one spell rotation, do their stuff and still have enough escapes to dodge another one. I do understand that I may not have analyzed the meta and the current items-to-build enough, but I also know that there should be counterplay to everything. In my opinion, it's not a matter of skill anymore if I die in less than a second while playing Thresh, for example.

Cats Are Food2 votes

It's been ignored since Morello and Pendragon were gotten rid of. On the old boards we'd have polls for champion changes, long discussions, and the playerbase actually designed a few champions you enjoy today.

Granted we also didn't complain about literally every champion in existence.

Rabbi Shekelberg2 votes

How did you find that out, detective? There are multiple reasons for that:

  1. Reddit is a very popular website on its own, and it has probably quadruple the numbers of league players here.
  2. The site is segregated via regions, your gameplay opinions are null except for the once a week time a rioter comments on NA and pretends to give a shit.
  3. Garbage forum for a Garbage game with a Garbage community attracts Garbage threads. The boards are memed into irrelevancy by its own users, where circlejerk gain the most upvotes, and reddit is the closest and the only alternative besides YouTube to constructive criticism
  4. Riot will ignore you regardless unless you are a high ranking player or a Streamer/YouTuber, who( because all of the above) do not post here.

Remember that LCS comes first. This a greedy company that is willing and already did for multiple seasons gave the finger to its player base, all for more money, desperate Esports views and attract new players for its dying fan base.

FéliXXX2 votes

ofc they dont pay much atenttion to it it is full of mage/adc mains (low elo) complaining about everything eventhough they are always the best class (adc have been not optimal half of the season)

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