Why League needs a dedicated AD mage

SteelMankind··5 votes·2,693 views

A dedicated AD mage would mean that midlaners who dislike melee assassins can have a great pick if their team comp demands they pick a physical damage champ.

Currently, several champions are somewhat close to being an AD mage, but sadly, each one of them deviates from a true mage playstyle in some way:

Gangplank usually gets a zeal item or two . Pure lethality GP that relies only on barrels is vsomewhat mage-y (albeit having only 1 real damage ability), but sadly isn't as good as a mix of AS/crit items and lethality because the barrels are so unreliable compared to right-clicking. Maybe if the barrel was a normal AD scaling spell with a generous base damage and ratio rather than balanced around being an AOE autoatttack that can potentially crit and apply item 3078 to everyone hit, GP wouldn't have the ridiculous power curve he has today.

Varus Riot really wants this guy to be a Marksman, considering the recent Q CD nerf and Passive buff. Also, when he does adopt a mage-y playstyle, he really only has one main damage ability (E has very low scaling/short range, ult and W scale off AP). While that one ability may be very oppressive and unfun to lane against, actual mages like Velkoz Orianna Taliyah have multiple damaging abilities that scale off the stat they build, and require the player to use all of them.

Jayce Riot buffed melee form Jayce several times last season, making Jayce's combat pattern closer to the likes of Riven . Ranged E serves as a MS boost (Marksman/Fighter tool) and to facilitate the EQ combo; W, of course, being just attack speed, makes yet another almost-AD-mage with just one "mage ability" scaling off AD.

Ezreal Q single target and essentially a skillshot auto; no waveclear.

Corki Does nearly all magic damage, presumably an AD mage would do physical damage.

Graves Technically you could say that a Graves playstyle focused on bursting with Q and ult is very mage-y, but the problem is that if they live/if you miss, your autoattacks still do a ton of damage. So much so that item 3046 is a common purchase, even though his Q and ult have great AD scaling.

Jhin Ult is pretty great for an AD mage, but outside of that almost all of his damage comes from autoattacking.

Pantheon Too short range on Q and E to be a mage; even close range battle mages have longer range than him

Illaoi Has very mage-y abilities at first glance, but doesn't play like one at all

I'm assuming that the main reason a real AD mage has not yet been implemented is because having access to 3-4 powerful, ranged, AOE AD-scaling spells is super OP when you consider that they can also auto attack. So, the champion would have to either have melee autoattacks, some kind of autoattack damage debuff against enemy champs like Kled has, or something really weird, like not being able to autoattack at all.

OR there could just be an AP-scaling mage who happens to do physical damage. That would also work.

23 Comments

umbraˉ5 votes

Zed

MissingKayo4 votes

You mean like, every single AD caster ever?

SteelMankind1 votes

I listed a bunch of AD casters, and that's all they are. A true AD mage would have multiple ranged AOE abilities that scale off AD, and Riot would support a "burst with abilities" playstyle on them over an autoattack playstyle.

OctoberIV3 votes

So Zed? Because you literally just described him. lmfao

SteelMankind1 votes

Except he's an assassin with abilities that assassins would like. High single target burst potential with shurikens that does reduced damage if it hits multiple targets, and a gap closer/outplay ability.

Mage abilities would be longer ranged that what Zed usually can do, better AOE/no damage penalty for AOE, and no mobility.

BLACK REALM GOD3 votes

AD mage - Mordekaiser

Death by Glamour2 votes

What about urgot?

SteelMankind1 votes

Crap, forgot about him (not even memeing)

I think he's pretty close to Ezreal. Definitely an AD caster, not so much an AD mage.

Incarceration1 votes

No, he's actually much more like Graves.

ShriekMauler2 votes

i think the AD mage thing is a bit contradictory? maybe? like mages are "magic" users, right? maybe a battlemage that summons mystical weapons to fight with would be a good option (not Irelia) they could take, but usually a mage is a magic (AP) based concept.

SteelMankind1 votes

From http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

"Mages are offensive casters that seek to cripple and burn down the opposition through their potent spells."

Riot officially lists GP as a Battle Mage/Skirmisher Jayce is an Atillery Mage/Skirmisher (tho nowadays probably the other way around...) Varus is an Artillery Mage/Marksman (also probably the other way around)

The notion that a mage is someone who builds AP and does magic damage is a bit outdated. Mordekaiser builds AP and does magic damage, but he's a juggernaut, for instance. Therefore it makes more sense to classify champs based on playstyle, not superficial attributes like whether they're AD, AP, or a tank.

Mages are squishy, low-mobility ranged champs with high damage abilities, most of which are AOE. They often have CC and waveclear in addition to damage. Why can't an AD-scaling champion (or a physical damage AP champion) fit that description?

chipndip12 votes

Simple: They turn into assassins or they turn into skirmishers.

Anonagon1 votes

while the term "Mage" as a thing in a fantasy world refers to a magic user in particular, the term "Mage" from a game design perspective simply means that the damage they provide is distinguished by range, AoE, and/or burst. You can have a character who is not a mage in lore but is a mage in gameplay (examples in League being GP and Varus, as well as Rumble, whose fighting ability comes from strictly non-magical sources, even if they deal magic damage in game), and you can have a character who is a mage in lore but not in gameplay (examples in game being Cass, who is effectively an adc, and many traditional supports)

Viktor Von Lazer1 votes

What sort of itemization options would we have for such a mage? I'd imagine AD+mana, so triforce? Would such a mage get items like Maw and Edge of night? and Mercurial scimitar? So basically it would be able to use all the items that otherl mages have wet dreams of using? Imagine this imaginary mage going up against syndra. Syndra lands a stun, you qss it. She ults you get a shield which makes you survive the ult cause Maw.Then you you Full combo her from range killing her easily. No one wants mages to have the sort of items that Melee champions have to use to play around mages. If you made a mage that could fully utilize those types of items, it would be broken beyond belief.

Of course it's possible to make a mage with a passive that converts all AP into AD damage to get over this itemization conflict, but the above reasons are probably why you haven't seen an AD control mage version of Orianna/Viktor etc.

SteelMankind1 votes

Didn't even think about all the AD+MR itemization. I guess AP mids already have to deal with the likes of Zed and Talon stacking the MR items. Most AD mids only get one though, because in order to burst really hard they need Lethality items.

And there doesn't have to be a passive that converts "AP damage" coughmagicdamagecough into "AD damage" coughphysicaldamagecough. Malphite W does physical damage but scales off AP and armor, and Elise spiderlings used to do physical damage but scaled off AP. When Taliyah was announced, I really thought she was going to be the physical damage mage - from a lore perspective, AP would allow her to lift rocks and throw them easier, but getting hit by a rock is of course a physical sensation, so it would deal physical damage. FeelsBadMan that she just does magic damage.

Mcloved1 votes
  1. we have those called assassins things like Akali(yes akali is hybrid dmg aka using both ap and ad) Evelynn LeeSin Talon Zed ( and yes this guys with his e/q/w combo can be considered as mage like with the range it can get to Urgot )
Who is Taliyah1 votes

You know why there is no AD mage? Mage already states that the character uses magic to deal damage. AD is physical damage, AP is magical damage in most cases. The nearest you can get to an "AD mage" would be an AD caster like Ezreal, Urgot and the likes.

SteelMankind2 votes

"Mages are offensive casters that seek to cripple and burn down the opposition through their potent spells."

That's Riot's definition. Says nothing about magic damage, and there are plenty of spells in the game that deal physical damage but scale off AP and deal magic damage but scale off AD.

Also, Riot already considers Gangplank Varus as mages first and foremost, so it definitely can exist.

Mr Killalot1 votes

I could see this working if they make it something like their AA does magic instead of phsical damage. I honestly think its a good idea and may actually improve the gamestate as a whole.

chipndip11 votes

But GP is a Battle Mage...

SteelMankind1 votes

I think his rework intended him to be like that, but most GP builds involve getting a zeal item or two and rightclicking enemy tanks to death.

Its kinda sad because the barrels are so unique, but mage playstyles that revolve entirely around barrel combos are less attractive than AS/Crit GP that can use barrels to support being a melee autoattacker.

I'm pretty sure that if GP barrel damage was a spell with a base and an AD ratio, the damage could be normalized. GP barrels as they are can potentially crit and apply onhit effects in an AOE, which is insanely broken, so to make GP balanced he needs to be the cowardly weak POS he is for all of laning phase.

chipndip11 votes

You can still build crit and just barrel the fuck out of your enemies, though. You can build into and play around either his battle mage attributes or the skirmishing parts, since he's a battle mage/skirmisher.

More from Gameplay

More by SteelMankind