Nasus Q shouldn't cost any mana

The Cane Master·Jul 1, 2017·1 votes·1,031 views

As we all know, due to lack of mobility, hard cc and reliable damage, the only relevant scaling of is in stacking Q. It is that quintessential to his kit that his tankiness doesn't mean anything if he can't reciprocate enough damage at the same time. We have the same situation with and her Q, except I would argue that even without it she can dish out fine damage ( Kog Maw's W costs mana, Draven can drop axes and still crit for respectable damage etc.) yet gets to have a free of mana charge on it, while doesn't. Not to mention that struggles with high mana costs until first completed item (which is earliest at levels 8-9), let alone a (unproportionately short) mana pool.

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27 Comments

RalanrJul 1, 20176 votes

So remove any reason for him to ever back unless for positive reasons?

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

So remove any reason for him to ever back unless for positive reasons?

Nasus without items always gets harassed so much that if he doesn't go back pre 6 he'll die 100% of the time, regarless if having enough mana to ult or not. So no, Nasus backing one time more or less doesn't impact his reliability and overall power at all.

RalanrJul 1, 20174 votes

You'd have a stronger point if Nasus didn't get lifesteal with his passive.

Manaless Q and free lifesteal means he can just farm under tower and give no fucks. Something he already does but has mana to force him to back.

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You'd have a stronger point if Nasus didn't get lifesteal with his passive.

Manaless Q and free lifesteal means he can just farm under tower and give no fucks. Something he already does but has mana to force him to back.

He never has enough mana to ult at level 6 if he hasn't backed previously. That's already a concern, let alone that he's always low that even if he passes on for a few stacks to maintain around 100 mana and not get killed, he's still going to die after his ult expires unless he backs. If you are talking about past level 7, yes he gets increased lifesteal from his passive and is hard to push out of the lane, however that's enough of a reward for undisputed weakest laning phase top laner in the game.

RalanrJul 1, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9a86htvf,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-01T00:12:28.563+0000)

He never has enough mana to ult at level 6 if he hasn't backed previously. That's already a concern, let alone that he's always low that even if he passes on for a few stacks to maintain around 100 mana and not get killed, he's still going to die after his ult expires unless he backs. If you are talking about past level 7, yes he gets increased lifesteal from his passive and is hard to push out of the lane, however that's enough of a reward for undisputed weakest laning phase top laner in the game.

Which isn't encouragement to build Sheen because?

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

Which isn't encouragement to build Sheen because?

Because you don't get 1050 gold for sheen at level 5, rather around 800. If you wanna stay you have to keep 100 mana for ult in case of an all-in, meaning that you can't stack for 2 waves if you wanna survive.

RalanrJul 1, 20172 votes

Is this with perfect CS? With a cull?

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Is this with perfect CS? With a cull?

This is with almost perfect CS-ing, I have 800k Nasus mastery, so speaking from experience. Unless you are playing against a tank with low reliable damage ex. Maokai , you can't afford to go cull as a first item. On this link you'll also see that the highest win rate starting item is item 1029 + item 2009 , while the most common is item 1054 + item 2003 . You just can't afford to go cull unless you want to spill the first blood.

sit kidJul 1, 20173 votes

would honestly just give him even more mana so he can poke with his E

E mana cost should definetely be increased then

DurzakaJul 1, 20172 votes

This.

I dont care about him being able to farm under tower forever. He can already do that after his first back anyways.

But no cost on Q would mean that he would be spamming his E in lane, which would be enough to stop anyone from engaging on him early and taking advantage of his piss poor early game.

Zone of EndlessJul 1, 20172 votes

To be fair though...All Tristana's Q does is give her attack speed. Not to mention her AS and AS per level is abysmal due to that skill.

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

To be fair though...All Tristana's Q does is give her attack speed. Not to mention her AS and AS per level is abysmal due to that skill.

Nasus scaling is also abysmal without enough Q stacked, let alone having enough mana to survive the laning phase at the same time. Tristana also gets a self peel with her ulti so her mana pool doesn't get depleted 100% of the time, unless she jumps around before the fight (unproficient usage of the W).

RequiemsfireJul 1, 20172 votes

Why are you comparing Nasus Q which to Tristana Q?

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why are you comparing Nasus Q which to Tristana Q?

Because having enough mana is even more important for Nasus , first to survive, then to have mana left to stack (even though the latter should be the primary concern). Tristana was broken in season 4 even when Q had mana cost, up to 110% att. speed steroid has multiplicative scaling with crit and att. damage, which always does way more dps than Nasus , unless we are 50 minutes into the game and Nasus has 1000+ stacks (which never happens in these times of omnipresent snowballing going on every game).

RequiemsfireJul 1, 20173 votes

First off Nasus isn't a team fighter, he's a splitpusher hence his kit, he also spikes really hard in the midgame who needs to farm and have all the tools to do it. The fact that Nasus's Q cost mana also forces him to consider whether or not he should use wither/ Spirit fire. He outscales the majority of his match ups at level 6, and after a certain point it would take two people to duel him where as it would take 4 items for Tristana to achieve anything.

Zone of EndlessJul 1, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9a86htvf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-01T00:08:13.038+0000)

scaling is also abysmal without enough Q stacked, let alone having enough mana to survive the laning phase at the same time. also gets a self peel with her ulti so her mana pool doesn't get depleted 100% of the time, unless she jumps around before the fight (unproficient usage of the W).

But Nasus' Q scaling isn't part of his base stat. It's extra power added on for each time he last hit with them and when he does get enough stack he's pretty strong.

Maybe Nasus need a buff but I don't think making his Q free is a good buff.

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

Maybe Nasus need a buff but I don't think making his Q free is a good buff.

As already suggested by Doozku, mana refund on successful last hit would be another possibility. I currently don't see an immediate way of buffing Nasus without compromising his undisputed weakest laning phase.

BeatzBoyFTWJul 1, 20172 votes

When 20 mana on a mana-building champion is already considered "expensive" in this discussion.

Like, any of you still remembered GP's mana refund on Q being removed?

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

20 mana is not expensive per say, however using 20 mana every 5 seconds non stop is quite a bit of load. Not to mention that his E costs are 70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130 MANA, while W being 80 flat. Mind you, he only has 325 mana at level 1 and gains 42 per level.

DoozkuJul 1, 20171 votes

I'd rather give it a mana refresh if you get a last hit. To compromise, his mana costs on Q should be increased heavily so that Nasus players that miss stacks get punished, and so Nasus can't just get easy stacks while constantly poking with E and then eventually he can just all in you, since he won't be able to fight you with a dismal mana pool.

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather give it a mana refresh if you get a last hit. To compromise, his mana costs on Q should be increased heavily so that Nasus players that miss stacks get punished, and so Nasus can't just get easy stacks while constantly poking with E and then eventually he can just all in you, since he won't be able to fight you with a dismal mana pool.

Yeah, mana refund on successful last hit would be nice too, so it wouldn't be a guaranteed decrease of mana expenditure but with enough skill it could reap some benefits.

Darkdemon653Jul 1, 20171 votes

Yeah, Nasus does have mana problems, but not because of his Q. His Q is already basically free. It doesn't need to be completely free.

While there is indeed no excuse for his E to cost 70-130 mana, having mana troubles is not a problem of his that needs to be fixed.

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Nasus does have mana problems, but not because of his Q. His Q is already basically free. It doesn't need to be completely free.

While there is indeed no excuse for his E to cost 70-130 mana, having mana troubles is not a problem of his that needs to be fixed.

I currently see this as one of the only few possible ways of indirectly buffing Nasus , it doesn't increase his combat stats the slightest while solving one of his many issues (which is why a full rework has to happen asap).

King of MongooseJul 1, 20171 votes

300+ games with nasus and a 43% winrate on him l o l

no he doesn't need mana buffs, he doesn't need buffs at all

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

no he doesn't need mana buffs, he doesn't need buffs at all

Yeah, 43% win rate which shows how much 800k mastery OTP Nasus can get in plat+. Not only he needs buffs, he deserves a full scale rework after 8 years since the release without a single one (yes, he's been released in 2009). Meanwhile Ryze gets to have 4 reworks in span of 2 years, all by the way broken as fuck.

King of MongooseJul 1, 20171 votes

you can't get into plat with a 43% wr on a champ

The Cane MasterJul 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=King of Mongoose,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9a86htvf,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-07-01T01:10:18.792+0000)

you can't get into plat with a 43% wr on a champ

I got into plat with >50% win rate with Nasus , in fact I got diamond V at the end of season 6 by playing Nasus . However there is a reason why he overall has 46% win ratio in plat+ and running oom in the laning phase is one of them. Most of the time I don't even have enough mana to ult at level 6, while not using W or E more than once or twice throughout.