So Riot Stashu is back....

Scarborough Fair·Jul 22, 2015·127 votes·5,272 views

And he is acting like nothing happened.... P.S Really loving the downvotes shower tho

62 Comments

NefasJul 22, 201558 votes

Upvoted for great justice. I used to enjoy Cass. Now I only find her horribly boring.

Scarborough FairJul 22, 201553 votes

It's just so outrageous how he can just return and pretend he did a good job

AbyssphereJul 22, 201538 votes

{quoted}

It's just so outrageous how he can just return and pretend he did a good job

Yes. I can't really find the words for how I felt to see him posting about the Fiora rework for hours so casually when Cass threads are STILL made so often. We can't even say he's too busy to post or that he's been fired anymore because if he has time to come on the forums to provide context on Fiora, there is absolutely no way he could not have spared a minute to tell people why he abandoned Cassiopeia any time over the course of this year.

Never have I taken issue with a designer like that, I generally think Riot staff deserve the utmost respect. But he is a bad person.

Tapu FiniJul 22, 201515 votes

Stashu's interaction with the community is poor, and the complete lack of consideration makes me feel he's the first riot member I've seen that absolutely does not deserve a position in the company, not because of what he did to Cass, but for the absolute disregard he showed in the process. Apathy is a terrible, terrible thing choose.

I'd love to be shown otherwise, but everything I've seen from him is below the standards I associate with rioters.

SaiannaJul 23, 20154 votes

Not exactly...

Stashu is like little kid. Loves to be praised. He'll skip any other than positive feedback just because he doesn't like it.

In short: He doesn't have balls to face unhappy players

shadowpriest131Jul 22, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Yes. I can't really find the words for how I felt to see him posting about the Fiora rework for hours so casually when Cass threads are STILL made so often. We can't even say he's too busy to post or that he's been fired anymore because if he has time to come on the forums to provide context on Fiora, there is absolutely no way he could not have spared a minute to tell people why he abandoned Cassiopeia any time over the course of this year.

Never have I taken issue with a designer like that, I generally think Riot staff deserve the utmost respect. But he is a bad person.

Not to be harsh, but I hardly see Cass threads these past weeks. So when you said Cass threads are still made often, you are wrong. I agreed with you that Stashu hasn't done a good job, but I suggest you don't just make up stuff to support your argument.

CrettJul 22, 201511 votes

{quoted}

Not to be harsh, but I hardly see Cass threads these past weeks. So when you said Cass threads are still made often, you are wrong. I agreed with you that Stashu hasn't done a good job, but I suggest you don't just make up stuff to support your argument.

They're actually made pretty often if you're looking at new threads. They don't get a lot of replies though

CrettJul 22, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Yes. I can't really find the words for how I felt to see him posting about the Fiora rework for hours so casually when Cass threads are STILL made so often. We can't even say he's too busy to post or that he's been fired anymore because if he has time to come on the forums to provide context on Fiora, there is absolutely no way he could not have spared a minute to tell people why he abandoned Cassiopeia any time over the course of this year.

Never have I taken issue with a designer like that, I generally think Riot staff deserve the utmost respect. But he is a bad person.

bad person? you don't know him personally do you?? you can't really call someone a bad person just because of how they handled a rework for a video game

TomatosxJul 23, 20152 votes

yeah not a bad person just a stupid person q-q

Oerba No NajaJul 22, 20155 votes

i cried so hard so hard when they reworked her on forums ect , and whatver a new play style ok , then cames the nerfs , cried again . still ignored by riot i give up ; lets main a another champ . item 3151

TheRakkunJul 22, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It's just so outrageous how he can just return and pretend he did a good job

Truly Truly Outrageous? Buff me pls rito item 3070 Taric

Zeke MaelstormJul 22, 201535 votes

And now he's giving Fiora a heal...

(Why on earth does a duelist need a heal)

Focus TeemoJul 22, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zeke Maelstorm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9YwsE9E8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-07-22T01:25:14.134+0000)

And now he's giving Fiora a heal...

(Why on earth does a duelist need a heal)

So the little damage tanks are going to be doing to her can be entirely negated, and then some due to life steal...

Honestly i'm almost positive Stashu is reworking her just to make tank(and tanky fighter) mains suffer.

RueianJul 22, 20154 votes

she is going to be anti-tank meta.

Focus TeemoJul 22, 20153 votes

{quoted}

she is going to be anti-tank meta.

Can't wait for the assassin QQ threads.... again.

Well they didn't really go away... but you get my point!

Only Play DariusJul 22, 20157 votes

MasterYi Tryndamere Aatrox Nasus XinZhao

TurquoiseYoshiJul 22, 20153 votes

He gave an explanation. It makes decent sense.

Zeke MaelstormJul 22, 20155 votes

I was more referring to her actual theme/identity. A human duelist (someone whom from a lore standpoint has no magical powers) should not have an AOE heal, it just doesn't make sense.

TurquoiseYoshiJul 22, 20154 votes

Sivir is a mercenary. Why does she have an ability block? It doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of her kit. And I've never heard anyone complain about the thematics of that.

Scarborough FairJul 22, 20152 votes

That's one ability, not an entire kit

TurquoiseYoshiJul 22, 20152 votes

Yes, and Fiora's AoE heal is on one ability. I think he was talking about how it didn't make sense thematically, but then I said there are other nonsensical abilities.

mack9112Jul 23, 20151 votes

I mean it's kinda like a niftier version of her old passive

5G8Nri0B54Jul 22, 20153 votes

Because

a) It doesn't contradict her identity like Twin Fangs does for Cass

and

b) People who do have a beef against her kit are more concerned with her bouncing-attack not being a toggled effect anymore.

TurquoiseYoshiJul 22, 20153 votes

a) We weren't talking about Cassio. We were talking about Fiora.

b) I haven't heard any complaints about anything in Sivir's kit in forever.

CaelerJul 23, 20151 votes

I believe it's supposed to be because of a morale boost for winning the duel rather than from magical powers.

questirJul 22, 201521 votes

Never forget, never forgive

SentethJul 22, 201513 votes

Never forgive.........

Never forget.........

Don't close your eyes!

It's not over yet.........

Neo CyrusJul 22, 201513 votes

How could I forget, they're repeating the same process and shitting on Fiora now.

A Superb VillainJul 22, 201521 votes

I think I have footage of Stashu's reaction when asked if he plans on fixing the damage done.

http://media.giphy.com/media/jQmVFypWInKCc/giphy.gif

For CarthageJul 22, 20155 votes

Eh, it'd probably be closer to this.

http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/tumblr_mcrx5uzFZ31r78caoo1_250.gif

KING OF MASKSJul 22, 201519 votes

First he came for the Cass mains, and I did not speak out. Because I was not a Cass main.

Then he came for the Fiora mains, and I started to speak out because hey asshole I actually play Fiora once in a while.

Tapu FiniJul 22, 201517 votes

_Hey, we don't talk about turning poor gameplay patterns into even worse gameplay patterns when stashu is around. The important thing is she was broken as shit for a patch or two, not that her passive is the definition of a gate, that her players need medical help with their twin fang finger, or that she was made into an even bigger bully than when she started (See: "The reason" for the rework.) _

We definitely don't address any issues, either, just let each other know why what we're getting is a good idea. Whether we like it or not is irrelevant.

TheUltimateSpearJul 22, 201514 votes

It's so unfair. And meaningless. They butchered Cassiopeia and gained nothing in return.

TauNoob1Jul 22, 201510 votes

I could care less about the rework itself but when you say you are going to commit to something FREAKING DO IT. It's reasons like this that cause the distrust between Rioters and the community. We get a few posts a day saying that they are listening and trying, the community tries to believe it for a while, and months later we are met only with silence and empty promises. I might get some flack for this but I really could care less about the rework itself but the way that communication is handled and the way in which RIOTers post absolutely DISGUSTS me.

ConturbatioJul 22, 20158 votes

I always thought that snakes bite once then watch their prey die from poison and not poison their prey then keep biting it until it dies Cassiopeia .

SquidblimpJul 22, 20154 votes

Why is everyone hating on Stashu? And why does everyone hate the Cass rework?

Scarborough FairJul 22, 201512 votes

1-Because he made a shitty rework, didn't commit to it, left for nine months after promising further changes, and then he returns and pretends nothing happened. 2-Subjectively, old Cassiopeia players really dislike the change in playstyle. Objectively, the rework is the biggest thematic mess.

SquidblimpJul 22, 20153 votes

He did not promise changes, he promised to look at her and see if she needed additional changes. I can conclude he decided she didn't. DoT is a very non-interactive and boring mechanic. This way, the DoT has 2 extra effects: (1) To build stacks, and (2) To proc E for extra DPS to punish enemies if they get poisoned. I honestly think that this way is much more interactive.

Scarborough FairJul 22, 20155 votes

No, he said that he isn't done working on her.

AbyssphereJul 22, 20159 votes

{quoted}

He did not promise changes, he promised to look at her and see if she needed additional changes. I can conclude he decided she didn't. DoT is a very non-interactive and boring mechanic. This way, the DoT has 2 extra effects: (1) To build stacks, and (2) To proc E for extra DPS to punish enemies if they get poisoned. I honestly think that this way is much more interactive.

You are wrong. His last posts did not mention checking to see if she needed changes, they mentioned actually changing her. He said she needed changes to be more poisony and that she would get them. You are wildly misinformed.

5G8Nri0B54Jul 22, 20155 votes

He did not promise changes

He did, several times. He even admitted her passive was shit and that he's looking into making it more "exciting".

5G8Nri0B54Jul 22, 20152 votes

Well...I think there are like 20+ threads you can scrounge up back when during her rework was going on. If anyone tries to give you a FULL reason, it'd dominate the thread.

Zair UmbrasJul 22, 20153 votes

Cass is his only failure, really. Fiora is a complete Rework. The only Rework Cass actually got was a nerf across the board on EVERY skill (Yes, all of them actually got nerfed) to compensate for the huge build up on her passive. Her Q went from a 80% to a 35%, soon buffed to 45%. Her W went from 15% per sec to a 10% plus a bit of a nerf to its base and cool down. Her E went from 60% at max to 55% flat (Sort of a buff if you didn't level it first, though they made the Q not worth leveling, so not much of a change!). Her R took a 60% to 50% nerf. But her passive became something useful for once. Took tweaking and fixing Cass's initial issue, her Q's delay. Seriously, with her old kit, she'd have been OP as hell if they had made her Q's delay static instead of between .2 and .7s, especially with an 80% ratio on it and a 60% on her E. lol.

While Cass was changed from her actual Theme, Stashu has done a great job with Fiora. Every Fiora main is going to cry since she's COMPLETELY different. Her Q is now a dash that then strikes at the nearest enemy, which prioritizes Champions by lowest health or if no champs are present, then minions with the lowest health, plus hitting it reduces long-seeming CD be reduced by 60%. Her W now parries EVERYTHING by turrets for .75s before tossing out a big blast that slows (Or stuns if she parried a form of CC with her W) the first target hit. Her E is about the same as the last, but only gives her a boost for two attacks, still resets the AA and the second hit is a guaranteed crit for 120% of her AD up to 200% (Normal crit damage and crits on turrets) and is of course boosted by IE. Her Q does apply on-hits and her passive is now a 3% HP true damage with a 2.8% of her AD at first up to a 4.5% of her bonus AD. And her R makes the enemy have all 4.

She's going from a lane bully to a tank murderer. Her old counters will still be her counters since she needs big AD to make her passive do damage, so prior to that, she's still reliant on AA's, meaning a Bruiser like Renekton is going to eat her alive while squishies like Teemo and Riven (Especially Riven since Fiora can press W to negate Riven's Q) are going to be decimated. She'd make a great mid laner now to be honest with you.

Tapu FiniJul 22, 201513 votes

Thing is, this isn't about Fiora, she's not in question. This is about the screwed up situation regarding Cassiopeia. Despite outcry, and against a big portion of her playerbase's wishes, she was changed in the worst ways possible. Instead of rectifying the situation, he disappeared, and exactly what I knew would happen, happened: She ended up being overtuned to make her shitty gameplay look like it was actually gold, and had to be nerfed because of it.

Whether cass was strong (Overtuned) or not , the rework was handled in an EXTREMELY poor manner, and I'd like to know if this is the kind of behavior I can expect from Riot employees in the future.

And hey, maybe I'm a little bit salty over having my two favorite champions in the game get a complete overhaul and a rework that ended up as complete travesties, even though there was innumerable feedback against them. Guess people don't appreciate having their favorites changed with complete disregard to their identities.

Caustic CrusaderJul 22, 201511 votes

Saying Cass is his only failure means that his entire body of work with Riot is a failure. The Fiora rework is not complete, we don't know how much of a role he's played in developing it, and the only other thing he's done up to this point is absolutely decimate everything enjoyable about Cassiopeia as a character.

Zair UmbrasJul 22, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Caustic Crusader,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9YwsE9E8,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2015-07-22T09:34:16.303+0000)

Saying Cass is his only failure means that his entire body of work with Riot is a failure. The Fiora rework is not complete, we don't know how much of a role he's played in developing it, and the only other thing he's done up to this point is absolutely decimate everything enjoyable about Cassiopeia as a character.

Honestly? Cass wasn't a failure. All he did really was fix her. Her entire issue gameplay-wise was her Q was impossible to land. He even tried to change her E so she'd be more poison and combo-ish seeming, yet all it actually did was make her farm to 6, so he reverted the entire E change, then buffed her Q's ratio PLUS making it reliable, which was original Cass's only actual issue since her W was for Zone control and her Q was supposed to be her method of getting in for the Twin Fangs. Instead of being a Poison Mage, Riot had made a Snake Mage, sort of a 'Spitting Cobra' mage since she'd shoot her poison at her prey, then quickly close the gap and go for the kill with the fangs. Since she was based on Medusa, they threw in Cass's R. When it comes down to it though? Stashu was supposed to fix her kit, not fix her Theme. Her kit was perfect and while it wasn't a 'Poison Mage' as everyone thought Cass was since they never fricken played her and realized her E has always been a 55% ratio and her passive used to reduce mana costs. HER KIT WAS MADE TO PRESS Q, THEN SPAM E. LITERALLY. Her kit reinforced the fact it has and always has been made to spam E. Throw poison, spam E.

Honestly, I don't know where everyone keeps going with saying Stashu's rework was a failure since when it comes down to it, all he did was take what Brackhar did and made it viable. Brackhar was also the one who made NIDALEE and did RYZE'S REWORK. Not the last one with the skill shot, the kit he had before that everyone has called Toxic since S2. YES, HE MADE THREE TOXIC CHAMPS that other people have had to take and rework. So is it Stashu's fault her kit is toxic? NO. He just took the kit and made it VIABLE like they did with Nidalee's last rework. They didn't remove any previous power, they just took the exact kit and made it WORK.

Tapu FiniJul 22, 20156 votes

You realize people have been saying twin fang doesn't really fit in her kit since her release right? And instead of focusing on the parts Cass mains enjoyed, poison, any and all power was funneled into Twin fang, the part nobody wanted, or even really liked.

Throw enough numbers at something and anything can be viable, but she wasn't fixed. If the kit is as toxic as you seem to think it is, then it warrants a full rework, not this half assed bandaid crap that only serves to piss people off.

Zair UmbrasJul 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You realize people have been saying twin fang doesn't really fit in her kit since her release right? And instead of focusing on the parts Cass mains enjoyed, poison, any and all power was funneled into Twin fang, the part nobody wanted, or even really liked.

Throw enough numbers at something and anything can be viable, but she wasn't fixed. If the kit is as toxic as you seem to think it is, then it warrants a full rework, not this half assed bandaid crap that only serves to piss people off.

It didn't fit her kit, but his job was not to make her fit her kit. His job was to fix her passive as they mentioned, so he fixed that and worked on the numbers of the rest of her kit. When it comes down to it, she's never been a poison mage and it's never actually been promised for her to be one.

Markus KruberJul 23, 20152 votes

Whats with everyone and Riot Stashu?

Caustic CrusaderJul 23, 20154 votes

The champ Cassiopeia's current state is a result of a rework he performed Cassiopeia main, such as myself, are frustrated for four reasons:

The reworked kit emphasizes aspects originally seen as unfitting in the initial kit, and is unfaithful to the original design that drew most in.
During the process of the rework, these concerns were brought to Stashu's attention but promptly ignored, and his design was pushed through anyways.
Following many updates which tweaked numbers and mechanics but failed to fix her issues, Stashu claimed that he wasn't finished working on her. This was in December, and the only change made since then was a minor mana cost adjustment that didn't fix anything.
He's re-emerged to discuss the Fiora rework, completely shunning those that are still upset about the Cassiopeia butchering.

Even separating his work from Cassiopeia and thinking of it as an original champion, it would still be severely flawed in its mechanics. The fact that it took the spot of a kit that was already satisfying and wasn't in need of a rework is that much worse.