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@Meddler Karma (NERF) Changes Are Not a Improvement

Vanjie··6 votes·388 views

You didn't compensate Karma for the shield, which is what I knew was going to happen. You continue for almost three years now not work on this champion. The entire Balance and Update Team cannot be bothered to work on a champion that doesn't have an identity, has received the most buffs and nerfs to her kit more than any other champion, is ignored on a daily and patch basis, has an incomplete visual update that stripped her away of her unique look and fans, incomplete running and animations to her character, a outdated and bland lore, and finally the shield bomb you removed that EVERYONE in the community loved. The Balance and Update Team's treatment towards this champion have been unfair. All of your work on this champion have been unjustified, not wanted by the community, did not address her problems, and you just don't care.

The ridiculous excuses your team is giving fans, and I will tell you there is a MASSIVE amount of fans for Karma, is getting very old. If you can justify working on Ryze six times, working on Brand and Vel'Koz when the community told you not to waste time on them, changed Leona for no reason what so ever and continue to ignore a champion you admit to giving an unfair rework too, then why are you even updating champions? All you can do to Karma is buff her numbers and then nerf them a few months later. All you can do is make up the excuse that "we didn't have the resources back then to work on champions and this is the result of that." Great. We sympathize with you on that. Instead of working on Ryze 6 times and wasting time and resources on Brand and Vel'Koz, fix the champion you only seem to have excuses for. You can only justify working on Karma when you have an Ionia Event or Enchanter Update, but you can justify working on Soraka, Sona, and Leona for months and patches. STOP MAKING EXCUSES AND LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY. WORK ON THE CHAMPION THAT NEED YOUR WORK. You are so out of touch with your game it is frightening.

I am not saying she didn't need a nerf to her shield. We can all agree it was an unnecessary change, to begin with, and didn't address her problems. Since I get critiqued for not proving constructive feedback, here you go Riot Update and Balance Team:

  1. The nerfs you applied to her mass shield, keep them in place. Shift some of that power to her W:

R+W - No longer has a heal. R+W now gives the enemy the same grounding effect Casseopia does. Enemy champions will no longer be able to flash or dash when rooted in place. There is plenty of counterplay to it since it is easy to get away from her tether. This also addresses Karma and her issues with landing a R+Q, which I find isn't reliable damage for the second tick.

  1. Completely remove R+E and give Karma back her shield bomb . . . . at a balanced state.

  2. Move Karma's current passive to her ULTIMATE and give her something that will help her more.

Any ONE of the above will help this champion until you feel like you can work on her. Riot, I am not critiquing you on your ability to work. I feel like you do create good content. I am critiquing you on your choices and reasoning. You can justify working on Leona, Sona, Lulu, and Soraka for months but you cannot justify working on Karma. All you can do is give us excuses and false promises that you will work on her during the Enchanter Update or an Ionian Event. I will say it again: You can only provide us with excuses as to why you refuse to work on Karma, while you work on many champions outside of their roles, lore, and events. Lulu and Sona are enchanters yet you worked on them. This is what we have a problem with.

11 Comments

SilverSquid5 votes

I am against:

  • That agressive tone: Rioter's are people too. You can see they try really hard when you have a minute to talk to them. But as people do, people fail. I think it's our job to point out when we think they fail, but in a respectful way.
  • The proposition for the RW: Giving her something already seen on other champions is not the way to go, imo. It's also weak on the thematic and counterplay part. I'd rather have something completely unique to her (damage redirection is something I am fond of).

Other than that, I mostly agree.

Sightless663 votes

Enemy champions will no longer be able to flash or dash when rooted in place.

I'm not actually sure what you're suggesting here. They already can't flash or dash when they're actually rooted. A characteristic of all roots is that they disable mobility. Are you asking for the actual tether itself to ground enemies before the root? If so, I would object to that idea because it effectively removes the main counterplay of this ability.

Completely remove R+E and give Karma back her shield bomb . . . . at a balanced state.

Nah. Not with this passive. The shield bomb was too brainless before because her passive made it effectively a free mantra charge. Use RE, get your mantra back from your passive, mantra something else. It was pretty much always the right decision no matter what you wanted because of the interaction with the passive. Very appealing for nostaliga purposes, not particularly interesting from a gameplay perspective. Besides, it's nice to have at least one mantra with a defensive purpose, and it's nice to actually be able to save a life with one of her shields (something that you very often failed at before the shield bomb removal).

Move Karma's current passive to her ULTIMATE and give her something that will help her more.

By itself, that would be a pretty big buff, and she definitely doesn't need that. That seems like more of an idea that would be taken up if she was getting major work, not something to be done when we're putting off major work.

IxtaliKing2 votes

Nah. Not with this passive. The shield bomb was too brainless before because her passive made it effectively a free mantra charge. Use RE, get your mantra back from your passive, mantra something else. It was pretty much always the right decision no matter what you wanted because of the interaction with the passive.

Would much rather lose that uninspired thematic mess of a passive if it meant her shield bomb could come back. They could move that passive to her ult and put a cap on how much CD can be refunded at once.

Sightless662 votes

put a cap on how much CD can be refunded at once.

Not a fan of that idea. The passive's most notable "feel good" moments are when you can get a ton of CD reduction off of it by hitting a lot of people. That's a pretty fun thing, and I'm not keen on giving that up for the sake of a shield bomb. Giving her a new passive would also necessitate a lot of work being done to the rest of her skills. If we're doing that much work, it would be much more efficient to just entirely rework her at that point.

Basically, I think she needs either a full rework, or she needs to stay roughly as she is now. The worst option in my eyes is bringing back the pre-5.10 Karma and applying some feel-bad fix to try and force it to be satisfying. The shield bomb was just another way to do AoE damage, and she already has that if I want it. I'm perfectly happy having an RE that doesn't overlap with her other mantras.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Depends where you like to play Karma really, I like to play her mid where they said her rework was intended so I prefer her pre 5.10 damage options.

Sightless661 votes

I like to play her mid too (and support), but I still like what we have now better.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Fair enough.

IxtaliKing1 votes

I am very upset and disappointed in riot right now. Their treatment of Karma has been absolutely disgusting. She's literally been stripped of EVERYTHING that was unique about her and the worse thing about it is they don't care, it's just another decision.

Lord Desert1 votes

I m sr to say this, im not a karma main or have played her alot, but i dont understand why you view Karma in such a bad light?! She has everything someone could need: very good poke,BIG Multi Shield/speedup, slow/slowfield, root+~10sec root:D %missHp selfheal, Super high ratios and base stats/ with ult combined, low mana costs, high range. ~Unique kit, kinda like heimer but with ult from start.

So i think she in a rather good/balanced state, like Irelia. Her "main" changes come with itemization. The Ardens/mikael +15%/30% to heal/shield is MASSIV on Karma!!!!! I can show you the math if you dont trust me!

To your suggestions: 1.giving RW "grounding" is bad, why? because it is targeted "you cant flash&dash" way and after that you will get rootet for 2 million years(like morg q), giving RW grounding makes counterplay impossible because targets can then only outrun you to break the ether, but you have 40-60% MS buff for 1,5 sec xDD So no outrunning possible! I think the heal is good. use E on yourself, run to enemy, RW get ~20% missing back, if thats enough run back or deal dmg with q and get 20% again after that, because the then slowed enemy is not going to get away from you in time. If you want RQ do E, W and wait with RQ till they get rootet and they only can flash out of after the root to avoid the RQ after dmg. which costs low mana and is back up in ca. 40 sec. Btw. your RQ has 435 base dmg + 90%ap ratio WITHOUT THE Explosion!!! With adds additonal 350 + 60% ap... so total of 785 base + 150% ap ratio... Your Q does more dmg then All spells together of any other support... At 36 cd.... without any cdr, and even gets redueced my 3/1.5. with abils /AAs............... with 70 mana costs!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIT

2.the bomb may be funny but is rather meh design. If you want it to be a high dmg ability then you should not get the shield maybe only the ms, and you will did before you get in range for the bomb normaly.

a new passive may be a good idea

Vanjie1 votes

I do not view Karma in a bad light. I view the work they do on her in a bad light. If I did not like the champion I wouldn't call her my main. I have a problem with Riot consistently overlooking her in favor of 6-7 Ryze reworks, wasting time on Brand and Vel'Koz, spending five to six months on Soraka changes, telling us they are not working on any champions until their class roles but working on Lulu, Leona, and Sona regardless. I have a problem with their lack of care, lies, and decisions.

All Riot has done through-out Karma's existence is buff or nerf her. They stripped the champion of what little identity she had with her relaunch and now they are coming up with excuses to not work on her, in favor of working on Ryze 6-7 times.

I do not care what changes Riot does to Karma. I want them to do something other than adjusting her number values. She does not have a unique kit that fits the character at all. The visual update was rushed and is literally crap. I look at how many times Ryze has been worked on . . . . I look at the lies they tell us for now working on her and that they only plan to with a Ionian Event or Enchanter Update . . . . and wonder why they worked on Sona, Lulu and Leona outside of their lore event or class role update?

Lord Desert1 votes

Look im an Irelia main, but i like quite a few other champs as much as irelia. But i dont think that there are any Changes nessecary to her. I get that they may have rushed visuals ond the overall feel of lore and abilites is not as fitting as i could be, but Does she seriously needs so something on the level ona rework rather then just gets a view updates?

Irelia has only seen nerfs in 3-4 years xD I personaly dont get why leona needed changes but updates are not bad, but some champs aatrox,yorrick etc. need some love And they are working on it but havnt found the right thing so far, so they work on other things. Ryze reworks may get annoying but they try to fix/balance him atleast. And dont forget there are alot of teams each of them with ther own focus, but the ones with the "easier" taskes can make those faster(Leona/Sona/velkoz etc updates).

And never expect to get the truth or atleast the complete truth behind something served. I may ask what the biggest bad things about karma may be? giving detailed informations about whats not working properly is always better. if you want to give Assumsions and helpfull/good/nessecary ideas for the change always consider the worst case as the normal case! And view stuff from as much angles as possible!

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