I may have just come up with the ultimate Juggernaut Keystone

Photos of Ghosts·Nov 11, 2016·73 votes·3,431 views

Rush of the Titan After being damaged for 30% of your HP within 5 seconds, gain 10-70 movespeed and 15-40% tenacity up to 15 seconds or until leaving combat. Obviously it's in resolve. EDIT: it could also be, as pointed out below by the commenters, a slightly higher amount of speed, capping at 10 seconds instead of 15. EDIT2: or, much less abusably, after being damaged for a flat amount scaling with level like rather than a % of your health.

57 Comments

MagikarpIsBossNov 11, 201627 votes

This actually sounds really cool. It is basically a reverse Stormraiders for tanks. But as others said, lower the time that it lasts. I get that the purpose is for chasing, but 15 seconds is overkill.

Ben SharpioNov 12, 20166 votes

TFW when the enemy darius Q's minions with black cleaver, has ghost, and zz rot tower passive, righteous glory active, item 3139 's speedboost, Nami speedboost, Lulu speedboost, item 3009 , movement speed quints, item 3742 , item 3142 active, Kled ult AND rush of the titan passive to get to the enemy ADC

Photos of GhostsNov 12, 20164 votes

Yeah, Darius might lean a bit too much onto the "OHGODWHY" side of things.

bill84Nov 12, 20167 votes

I mean Darius with Morgana shield and Zilean speed boost is already bretty op.

mr Boombastic787Nov 12, 20163 votes

Unfortunally Kled ult don't stack with other movement buffs and it is the highest movement speed you can have (I think). They said something like that in his QnA

SasogwaNov 12, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9RLLOA09,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-11-12T00:21:39.795+0000)

TFW when the enemy darius Q's minions with black cleaver, has ghost, and zz rot tower passive, righteous glory active, 's speedboost, speedboost, speedboost, , movement speed quints, , active, ult AND rush of the titan passive to get to the enemy ADC

And then he gets stunned once and he cries.

Smitty ManjensenNov 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

This actually sounds really cool. It is basically a reverse Stormraiders for tanks. But as others said, lower the time that it lasts. I get that the purpose is for chasing, but 15 seconds is overkill.

His idea wasn't meant for tanks, it was meant for juggernauts, learn the difference.

SlaktarTaskenNov 11, 201613 votes

No! Too much power? How I ADC if thanks unsturpable? How I ADC when APC CC?! ADC class need buff not other classes need moar pawa?!!!

SherogarthNov 12, 201616 votes

How do i ADC when assassin? How do i ADC when tank? How do i ADC when juggernaut? How do i ADC when mage? How do i ADC when turret? How do i ADC when jungler? How do i ADC when enemy? How do i ADC when support? How do i ADC when armor? How do i ADC when CC? How do i ADC when dead?

How do i even ADC when all those things op. I dont ADC :(. I want ADC. Rito nerf, so I ADC :).

#kappa

SlaktarTaskenNov 12, 20164 votes

{quoted}

How do i ADC when assassin? How do i ADC when tank? How do i ADC when juggernaut? How do i ADC when mage? How do i ADC when turret? How do i ADC when jungler? How do i ADC when enemy? How do i ADC when support? How do i ADC when armor? How do i ADC when CC? How do i ADC when dead?

How do i even ADC when all those things op. I dont ADC :(. I want ADC. Rito nerf, so I ADC :).

#kappa

Eksaktry, ADC is week class and need buffs, I cri evri tiem sometin like u write above happn, and Y? Only cos adc so week!!! Tank U for deh undertand. Plis listn Rito!!!

WiegrafOfValorNov 12, 20161 votes

Canadian DrMundo : You can't stop my Thanks!!!

AstôlfoNov 11, 20163 votes

So the point of this is to try and help mitigate the kiting distance of ranged and effectiveness of CC. I feel like gaining MR/armor against ranged attacks and/or abilities OR reducing damage of said ranged attacks and/or abilities by some % instead would help more for that though, or like, reducing attack speed for any champion that uses ranged autos to damage owner of said Keystone. MS doesn't really help when they'll just keep shredding you from distance anyways, not to mention double Zeal items will be a shitton of MS already, while they're already in the backlines.

The Tenacity idea is good though.

Photos of GhostsNov 11, 20165 votes

Most Juggernauts have a way to sustain when they get to their target ( Darius Illaoi Mordekaiser Nasus Olaf Volibear Udyr ). It's really just Garen who gets screwed, but he has above average tankiness and burst.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20162 votes

The issue is most juggernauts don't build attack speed. AKA, the delay between selecting a target, pausing movement, and actually attacking is quite significant. Meanwhile, ADCs who are both ranged and build attack speed, can alternate between click on target-click on ground fairly fast and still achieve both without as hurtful of a delay.

Photos of GhostsNov 11, 20161 votes

True dat, but that could be fixed by making their attack frame scale with level. So that they can't trade too easily in lane but they still can chase in the lategame.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20162 votes

Yeah, I'm just of the opinion that reducing the damage whether it be through resistances or % damage reduction against specifically only RANGED autoattacks and/or damage sources would help more than MS. But I see your point as well.

AFK PushNov 13, 20161 votes

Shyvana

TomosimaNov 12, 20163 votes

Only if we nerf/rework Irelia before that comes out.

Bladerunner7777Nov 12, 20161 votes

Irelia probably wouldn't take this mastery

Need Gold 4 TentNov 12, 20161 votes

She might, to transform onto an olaf on crack

Bladerunner7777Nov 12, 20164 votes

but olaf relies on running in a straight line to the enemy, Irelia has her Q

Now on Tryndamere I can definitely see this being busted

I think this idea in general is unbalance-able.

ZelorxonNov 12, 20163 votes

It's called ghost. summoner 6 <-This bad boy right here

Gosh DarnNov 12, 20162 votes

That's a summoner spell, completely unrelated to the issue that juggernauts without hard CC are completely fucked in the keystone area.

ValyrianBladeNov 11, 20162 votes

I like the concept but there's a few changes I think are needed:

Change from 30% to a flat amount. Say 200 to 900 depending on level. 30% makes it abuse-able by too many non-juggernauts since their lower HP will result in it proc'ing easily. It would also make it possible to work on tanks, but not as efficient since they often build for resistances which will make it harder to proc.
I think the duration is a little strong. Stormraiders only lasts for 3 seconds. Now, 10-70 MS is a lot less than 40% MS, but I digress. I think 5 seconds guaranteed, up to 10 seconds while in combat, would suffice. If anything the 10-70 could be brought up (I think 10MS is too little to be noticed at early levels, would put you at a pretty big disadvantage relative to some other keystones).

Photos of GhostsNov 11, 20161 votes

I thought about it, but since it's a keystone, it's going to get used only by people who already go into resolve. So the issue is just other tanks (and they won't do much harm with it) and... tank Ekko. But he should be kinda dead by now. I'm not against making the HP trigger a flat amount, but I don't think it's necessary.

Regarding the duration, it's because it's not a hit-and-run thing, where you just run away after comboing as an assassin does. It's intended to help you chase down people who kite you, while you do your sustained thing. And it's kinda low because jugglenots usually have low MS so I thought they'd get more from flat MS, but it's maybe a bit too low.

GULAG 4 UNov 11, 20162 votes

Doesn't sounds bad.

Big LincolnNov 11, 20162 votes

this is actually a pretty neat idea, +1

we could use more shit for juggernauts

Critmaster GarenNov 12, 20162 votes

my idea was kinda this:

strength of the ages

gain 30 + 15/lvl health (max 300)

gain 1% damage reduction for each enemy champion who has dealt damage to you within the last 4 seconds

its cool when tanks use it. i dont see it stronger than CoC, which gives a ginormous frontloaded shield. but this would be really nice to have for extended fights against multiple opponents.

alternatively make the first part just +10% bonus health, so it really only gets used on champions who stack health.

DengedenNov 12, 20162 votes

There is.... no reason everyone wouldn't run this.

TerchioNov 12, 20162 votes

Worst abuses of this? Probably ranged skirmishers, especially those ranged tops who Mallet into a destructive force. This would make an extremely potent second-chance for champs that already kite too much. No offense, but I want something in the spirit of the old SotA, something not for extra powerful harass or support, but instead for general tankiness with a regeneration build in mind. I'm not a fan of the Colossus idea, but the other won't be any better for old SotA builders, nor really veer away from Grasp of the Dying builds any.

TyroneWatermelonNov 12, 20162 votes

I see how it can be abused by every class. It should be melee only atleast

TwinkieProNov 12, 20162 votes

Irelia Jax Evelynn Ekko Graves Jhin LeeSin Olaf Udyr

Do you hate us or something?

( Singed would actually be meta with this tho)

GigglesONov 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9RLLOA09,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-11T22:22:40.568+0000)

Rush of the Titan After being damaged for 30% of your HP within 5 seconds, gain 10-70 movespeed and 15-40% tenacity up to 15 seconds or until leaving combat. Obviously it's in resolve. EDIT: it could also be, as pointed out below by the commenters, a slightly higher amount of speed, capping at 10 seconds instead of 15.

or, just or, we could give shields to everyone instead of just champions with "hard cc"

Bladerunner7777Nov 12, 20163 votes

?????

You do realize if CotC didn't have the CC requirement, almost every single champion in the game would take it

I don't want a permashield meta

Need Gold 4 TentNov 12, 20161 votes

make it soft cc, buff the %, make it bonus hp, and lower the cd. There are a lot of juggernauts that would love this but can't use it because they typically only have slows.

VerdadeNov 12, 20161 votes

Actual juggernauts: Sion Skarner Darius Udyr Volibear Susan Garen Morde

All of them have non-R CC except for Susan (who uses stormraider or grasp) and Morde who uses DFT.

BenParadoxNov 12, 20163 votes

Sion isn't a Juggernaut, he is a Vanguard. He was given the title of "The Undead Juggernaut" before Riot came up with the Juggernaut subclass (the Juggernauts of course existed back then, they just weren't called Juggernauts).

Also Illaoi, Olaf, Dr. Mundo, and Shyvana do not have hard CC on basic abilities. EDIT: I forgot Yorick, who also has no hard CC.

Critmaster GarenNov 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sion isn't a Juggernaut, he is a Vanguard. He was given the title of "The Undead Juggernaut" before Riot came up with the Juggernaut subclass (the Juggernauts of course existed back then, they just weren't called Juggernauts).

Also Illaoi, Olaf, Dr. Mundo, and Shyvana do not have hard CC on basic abilities. EDIT: I forgot Yorick, who also has no hard CC.

ive seen a yorick trigger CoC when he hits an enemy with the wall of his w. it slightly knocks them back by a microscopic amount but seems to be enough to trigger it.

still wouldnt take the mastery on him though, since that method seems highly unreliable.

silence doesnt trigger it either sadly.

Photos of GhostsNov 12, 20162 votes

Skarner is not a juggernaut, they admitted to misclassifying him as early as a month after the rework. And Sion is of the most cc-heavy champs. Also, you forgot the very basic Garen.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 12, 20161 votes

100% not giving up grasp or courage for that. Welp tank supps have courage now anyways so buh bai bond of bros.

CppLNov 12, 20161 votes

It could get abused ,by champs like irelia ,jax.Imagine these champs with this keystone...they would unstoppable.

a special oneNov 12, 20161 votes

that wont ever happen

Yordle XayahNov 12, 20161 votes

Looks pretty nice for ADCs tbh

Blue Collar BearNov 12, 20161 votes

From a design standpoint, this is kind of awkward. It's like Karthus passive. You have to get hit / die (which is generally a negative thing) to proc it. There's also another thing. There's already much more dominant strategies for juggernauts. Why take this, if I can just build damage (more proactive and positive) and go Stormraider's?

However, I do like this and to entertain it, I could see myself taking this against hard cc like Annie. What if instead (upon taking 30% health or more), you get cleansed of cc? I could see some carries taking it, but it's not worth it over the other keystones, I think.

Photos of GhostsNov 12, 20161 votes

Almost all tankish things work with taking damage. Sterak's, the new engage mastery, Bond of Stone. And juggernauts need tankiness and movespeed, not damage and movespeed.

Blue Collar BearNov 12, 20161 votes

We play juggernauts very differently, then.

KoKobotoNov 12, 20161 votes

Sounds like it'd be abusable by squishies because 30% on an adc isn't much at all but it's a keystone so they would be sacrificing a lot of damage.

This keystone sounds great!

FantasySniperNov 12, 20161 votes

Wait, do you have any idea how exploitable this is? It's a lot easier for a squishy to take 30% HP within 5 seconds than it is for a tank, so they can quite easily take advantage of this get-out-jail-free-card. If anything, this punishes actually building tank.

Make it work more like Gage: Taking 400 - 2600 (before resistances) in combat against champions, you receive blah blah blah

Photos of GhostsNov 12, 20161 votes

tru dat, I just had a brain fart of "% HP = tanky lal"