I am over mage supports refusing to build sightstone.

NvestmentPlanker·Dec 4, 2016·22 votes·2,347 views

You queued up, and you got the role of support. Whether that was intentional or not, it doesn't matter. It isn't your fucking job to build mejai's, go full damage, and take blue buffs while providing no vision and next to zero peel for your ADC. I am so tired of mage supports doing this shit and just saying fuck vision/sightstone. Absofuckinglutely ridiculous. How amazing that sightstone now builds into an AP item so you don't have to waste a precious item slot for JUST sightstone. Omg I know you have to do the damages!!!!! i'm talking to you mains.

82 Comments

AlienPrimateDec 4, 201613 votes

And support mains are over ADC's refusing to build item 3123 when playing against Alistar Bard Nami Sona Soraka Soraka Soraka Soraka Soraka

It is the same price as sightstone to half the effectiveness of heals but I have only ever seen 1 adc get it first item and only because I told them to.

Awesomedude8888Dec 4, 20161 votes

I mean, a mortal reminder is not core on an ADC as much as a sightstone is on a support. I will build it after I complete item 3085 item 3031 item 3006 if their team also has a vlad mundo or zac.

NiaphimDec 5, 20161 votes

item 3123 costs 800 gold. It's not hard to build a 800 gold item, right? Supports are doing this all the time.

VorpalKitsuneDec 5, 20162 votes

But sightstone is useful the whole game, while that item might be an item that isn't good for this game except for early game that puts them behind 800 gold as the game goes on. I'm not saying that it cant be a good call, but i am saying that it isn't always one. If they take it and it is not a good call, they put themselves behind the other adc for a small lane advantage, that also sets them off worse in actual combat effectiveness just to counter some self healing.

AlienPrimateDec 5, 20161 votes

If you are playing against any of the champs I listed it is ALWAYS a good call to get it and upgrade it to item 3033 later in the game. Mortal Reminder is just so much better than Morellonomicon because it is grievous wounds at any time, not just below 40% hp.

Aatrox Alistar Bard Ekko Fiddlesticks Fiora Galio Kindred MasterYi Nasus Nidalee Olaf Soraka Sona Swain Taric Tryndamere Vladimir Volibear Warwick Zac Nami

kile147Dec 5, 20161 votes

Executioners Calling is good for countering in combat healing, but it's not worth building early game against Ali or Bard because their heals are infrequent and small. Sona and Nami both have reasonable heals, but I'd say GW is still not worth it in lane unless the adc has Warlords or rushes vamp scepter, though you should definitely get it after first item. Soraka is 100% rush.

NiaphimDec 5, 20162 votes

You can apply that logic to sightstone as well. A competent support can also survive lane with just a yellow trinket and control wards provided that adc also places his yellow wards when needed. Also adc can buy control wards so that 2 are active but even if not you don't need to ward every bush 24/7 to know if a gank is coming. So instead, supports can rush item 3092 or item 3401 or item 3069 or even item 3190 and build sightstone later. And personally I'm fine with anything as long as people communitcate and don't flame.

Maximum MordeDec 5, 20161 votes

No. 90% of adcs are taking warlords these days and sustaining in lane. It is always useful.

VorpalKitsuneDec 6, 20161 votes

Not really, because cutting that healing of, what, 5 to 10 per auto is not going to be doing much in lane. i do think that mortal reminder should be built more often than it is though.

Drive By MaxDec 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

And support mains are over ADC's refusing to build when playing against

It is the same price as sightstone to half the effectiveness of heals but I have only ever seen 1 adc get it first item and only because I told them to.

It applies an effect which negates self healing, not healing from other champions. It's basically useless now.

{quoted}

So why can't Sion support? AOE stun, AOE armor reduction, AOE stun, AOE slow. You know Nautilus used to not be a support right? What does he offer? AOE knockup, AOE slow, single target snare, single target displace. Now his meta is support over anything else at about 60% of naut picks being support and 39.9% being top or jung.

He's the highest win rate support right now.

The Last BalladDec 4, 20164 votes

Grievous wounds V6.9 Now affects healing from all sources instead of self-healing.

Nice to know people keep up with patch notes.

Even when it only affected self healing, there still is Soraka, who you WANT to run out of health, and a bunch of other drain tanks...

Fine Ionian SilkDec 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And support mains are over ADC's refusing to build when playing against

It is the same price as sightstone to half the effectiveness of heals but I have only ever seen 1 adc get it first item and only because I told them to.

One time I saw my ADC build it without me asking... I was so proud. item 3070

EschetonDec 4, 20168 votes

You rush sighstone when behind, you rush AP when ahead. You always build both eventually.

All depends on what advantage you want to push.

yoshi2790Dec 4, 20168 votes

I play them (almost) all

And i rush item 2301 Before i go full AP

NvestmentPlankerDec 4, 20163 votes

bless you

HyperiönDec 5, 20161 votes

That makes 1 in about 50 xD

Risk of FateDec 4, 20166 votes

Let's see, I play Lux Sona Morgana and always build sightstone. The thing that bothers me is "I'm out of wards and pinging you back because I want to refresh them" while you go hard in on the enemy bot lane. The bush ward dies annnnd ganked by the enemy jungler, complaining bot wasn't warded.

...I don't need to have that bush lit up 24/7 to know we're pushed up, I have no idea where the enemy jungler is and CBA to keep track of every person when I'm focused on making sure you don't die when you're playing pokey pokey under their turret.

ZelorxonDec 4, 20165 votes

I agree with you, sightstone is mandatory on a support, no excuses, but syndra and lux ain't supports tho... :/

yoshi2790Dec 4, 20162 votes

I'm pretty sure they are.

ZelorxonDec 4, 20163 votes

No they aren't, and i'm sick and tired of explaining the same thing 400 times everytime someone goes "HURHUDHURHUSR SION IS A TANK SUPPORT TOOO HUEHEUEHE".

Lux and syndra aren't supports for 2 simple reasons: -Mana costs too high for a support -Everything they do annie does it better and easier

"BUT IN BRONZE V ONE TIME IT WORKED BECAUSE <insert reason here>" No, just... no... "BUT IN CHALLENGER 3 IT WORKS BECAUSE" No. "BUT ONE TIME I WENT LEBLANC SUPPORT AND I WENT 1244/0/420" Same.

AlienPrimateDec 4, 20164 votes

So why can't Sion support? AOE stun, AOE armor reduction, AOE stun, AOE slow. You know Nautilus used to not be a support right? What does he offer? AOE knockup, AOE slow, single target snare, single target displace. Now his meta is support over anything else at about 60% of naut picks being support and 39.9% being top or jung.

ZelorxonDec 4, 20161 votes

Replace annie with leona/braum/nautilus and lux/syndra with sion.

If you manage to stun with your Q any adc that has a higher IQ than a bonobo with brain damage on crack call me, i have a spot for you as a support on SKT secondary team.

EschetonDec 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Replace annie with leona/braum/nautilus and lux/syndra with sion.

If you manage to stun with your Q any adc that has a higher IQ than a bonobo with brain damage on crack call me, i have a spot for you as a support on SKT secondary team.

Right. Because they will avoid it as you charge it. You know what zoning is right?

And you know that immobile adc run out of flashes right? And that Sion E slows so his Q becomes kinda hard to just walk out of.

You might as well say " just juke Thresh's hook." It aint that simple mate.

AlienPrimateDec 6, 20161 votes

To add to what you said, some adc's also have cc. I can see sion working great with jhin. Sion hits the slow making it easy for jhin to hit the snare making it impossible to miss sion's q.

Autumn CelesDec 4, 20163 votes

If you think mana costs are too high then you're obviously not managing your mana properly. Lux has a long range snare (that can hit two people), a slow, a shield. She has long range poke that can easily proc tlords and chunk the enemy adc. Annie has a stun that requires her to charge it up but can be devastating if she lands a two man stun. They both provide different utilities, but if you play it right, they can both be support. Why? Because you can peel or set up with both Annie stun or Lux snare/slow. If you're not willing to listen to people who try to tell you how a champion works, perhaps you shouldn't comment on those champions. Here, just for you, I'm Plat 3 (you can see my op.gg here) and I've played support Lux and built sightstone. I peeled properly for my adc and set up kills. I cannot say that I've played Syndra so I'll let someone else defend that champion as support but I have seen it work before. A support is a support and if you can pick your champion, let us supports pick ours.

Whenever you stop critisizing what other people are doing and focus on improving yourself, perhaps you can actually get out of silver with a win rate that isn't below 50%, eh?

Cheers and good luck on the rift.

Nameless VoiceDec 4, 20164 votes

It doesn't sound like you're over it? Sounds like it still bothers you.

Meanie40Dec 4, 20164 votes

Care to give up your first major item's gold for mandatory purchases that do relatively nothing?

That's what Support players are expected to do.

Tryce MaxwellDec 5, 20164 votes

Honestly sightstone on a mage support is a waste of an item slot. In low Elo the vision grranted from it isn't even used that well because of how dumb the average player base is anyway. The entire game could be revealed to them and they would still somehow get ganked up on.

Only buy sightstone when gold+ I'd say. Anything below that and you are wasting your time, It's easier to carry if you flat out kill the gankers with your superior damage rather than support a monkey

Jeanne fan clubDec 5, 20164 votes

how else is a support player supposed to climb? Utility doesn't matter if the rest of the team is too stupid to actually follow up. I think its completely understandable that some supports want to take their elo into their own hands.

SiytherDec 4, 20163 votes

does anyone else get the feeling since there is so little vision one person can lay down at one time that ppl are just not even trying to do it simply because when no one else is warding the support cant put enough down to make a fuck? Just a thought , i always buy sightstone as suppoort though

WitchQueen AnnieDec 5, 20163 votes

I play Mage support a fair bit and don't buy SightStone. I get Ancient Coin/Spellthief to sustain my build without CS-ing and then go full damage, selling the first item last.

Vision is overrated.

Damage wins games. In low elo anyways. The rest of your team can't be counted so you need to make off-meta damage carry plays if necessary.

Can't tell you how many times the full damage support Vladimir or Annie comes around to win the game later on in the direst of circumstances.

Vision is for LCS/higher elo play only, in low elo, expect incompetent team mates. Its too naive to create vision when you need the damage to pull your team back into the games. If people can't even lane reliably or team fight reliably, extra vision won't do anything.

NvestmentPlankerDec 5, 20163 votes

that is the most bullshit cop-out excuse of all time. "can't rely on teammates to use vision". lmao keep using that excuse to validate you consciously fucking your team and not playing the role of support

Chimp JokerDec 5, 20162 votes

At the end of the match, if the support has helped adc teammate gain kills and win the lane, I would say fuck sightstone.

WitchQueen AnnieDec 16, 20161 votes

Support utility items are for Pros only, that's my opinion.

If your Gold or lower, your better off playing damage carry support (so long as your team has SOME tankiness). The extra vision isn't as useful as the increased probability of SOMEONE on your team damage carrying (by having one more damage character in competent hands).

Too many feeders and trolls to go Vision Support.

WitchQueen AnnieDec 16, 20161 votes

You need to maximize damage mechanical outplay odds in low elo, not vision or support utility items.

If you have one extra character on the team potentially becoming a damage carry, I say go for it.

I climbed out of Bronze alternating between Annie Mid and Annie Bot (full damage). Couldn't have done that with traditional supports like Nami, Alistar etc.

Low elo is all about those damage dealing outplays.

Sightstone's for high elo only.

The Yetii RiderDec 5, 20163 votes

Aw, that's cute. You go ahead and rage, but you know what's funny? There's an easy way to guarantee you never see an AP wardless support in your games. And that is to play support yourself.

But you won't. You'd rather cry and complain that others aren't playing the game the way you want them to.

Need Gold 4 TentDec 4, 20162 votes

They're not supports, they're lane partners. My Shen top is more of a support than these guys are.

However, doesn't mean it don't work. I love kill lanes.

TyrekGoldenspearDec 4, 20162 votes

I see no issue with building eye of the watchers as Brand. He gets by with relatively little AP compared to other mages.

Lady HammerlockDec 4, 20162 votes

i just get the sightstone AP item then go full AP.... its that simple

ProudOfMyWienerDec 4, 20162 votes

You actually don't have to build Sightstone at all in some cases. I only take it when the jungler is being a cheeky bastard.

WhyBanMyLeeSinDec 4, 20162 votes

Not building a sightstone on supps aint a report reason but I agree with ya

AikraDec 4, 20162 votes

Supports aren't the only ones that are supposed to ward the whole map. This is a team game-- everyone should buy sightstone tbh.

OokamiNoSoraDec 4, 20162 votes

I recently got into shaco support and despite going full ap I always bought a sightstone, no matter who you play as support you always need to buy it. No reason not to, you can still do tons of damage with a sightstone

Chimp JokerDec 5, 20162 votes

I can't wait to play support Syndra (without sightstone).

:^)

ZT XperimentorDec 4, 20161 votes

Since you think you know how to ward better; how about try playing support a few hundred games, and see how fun it is to waste 2 item slots that can't help in fights.

ScissorsNstuffDec 5, 20161 votes

why 2?

ZT XperimentorDec 5, 20161 votes

If you buy multiple pink/control wards, then the remaining ones stay in your inventory after placement. Sightstone & whatever gold-generation item each take up a slot unless you go with the combination item. You're going to have a minimum of one wasted slot, but at most 3, so the average is 2; the builds depending on the game of course.

ScissorsNstuffDec 5, 20162 votes

:/ both of those help in fights though

nothing makes you tankier than superior tactics

MAKAVELIncarnateDec 5, 20161 votes

You spent some time on this post. I know it didn't take long, but how often do you take time to thank your support player or commend them on their ward placement? As a support main, no one has EVER commended me on my warding.

NvestmentPlankerDec 5, 20162 votes

I commend anyone on good play regardless of the role they are playing. I just had a godlike Soraka yesterday that kept me alive in so many situations where i should have died. I told her she was a god. Thanking for placing wards is not something I do or expect anyone else to do, even when I am playing support. I love having vision, I love placing vision and denying vision. Vision is power.