support tank items make you more durable than actual tank items

Big Lincoln·Jun 26, 2017·62 votes·4,621 views

on top of barely being worse off in terms of raw stats, support-tank items are cheaper and have strong actives that also add tankiness

just sad, really

125 Comments

AhristocatsJun 26, 201728 votes

"ya all become supports for our adcs" -riot

not that i mind, i like to be a king as darius

Big LincolnJun 26, 201715 votes

"ya all become supports for our adcs" -riot

every change riot does to shove teamwork further in my face makes me hate the game more

GalacticBearsJun 26, 201735 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KHwOIqP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-26T08:31:28.449+0000)

every change riot does to shove teamwork further in my face makes me hate the game more

This is really confusing...like why play a team game at all if you have any adversity to teamwork? Like team is literally the first part of it?? There are tons of other non team based games for you to play @.@

SujirenJun 26, 201715 votes

{quoted}

This is really confusing...like why play a team game at all if you have any adversity to teamwork? Like team is literally the first part of it?? There are tons of other non team based games for you to play @.@

Because in solo q there is no teamwork, just a bunch of toxic dudes that you have to carry and hope they dont troll. Every time game is pushed into more team oriented state, it becomes that much more annoying for solo q. I loved season 3 because 1 dude could truely carry, drake was just a bit of global gold, and,nashor only gave regen and stat boost so you could still turtle all day. These days you need around 3 people performing well to win the game.

SennaFirstPickJun 26, 201710 votes

i dont know what is going on in NA but in my elo, gold 3 atm, there's a lot of teamwork, except for late game where someone split while the other farm but that's just us sucking at the game

JaxMoonStealerJun 26, 20177 votes

And that's how team-based games should be. There are tons of other games for people who want to solo-carry.

BwuceleeroyJun 26, 20175 votes

"1 dude could truely carry" ......ever think this created mindset is why there is no teamwork in solo que? No I in Team bruh But newer players end up the same because they're looking up all the old vids on youtube and still trying to compete with this outdated mentality which only leads to a team full selfish individuals all trying to solo carry while getting the crap rightfully kicked out them by those smart enough to know better.

Big LincolnJun 26, 20173 votes

because when I play a champion like Illaoi I'm playing her with the understanding that I won't get peeled, I won't (deliberately) get shields or heals, and yet I'm expected to group instead of split push because soloQ monkeys don't know to work with a split pusher

teamwork is absolutely brain dead compared to earlier seasons. there's no skill involved; just fuckin' mash stoneplate and locket if you're a tank/bruiser and you've saved your ADC, good job. 0 thought

RalanrJun 26, 20172 votes

Fuck stoneplate and locket. I want to be more to my team than just a massive stat shield.

Big LincolnJun 26, 20173 votes

too bad, this is how teamwork works in league now

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20172 votes

I want to be more to my team than just a massive stat shield.

Why play a tank ?? btw u aren't only on massive stat shield but a CC bot too.

RalanrJun 26, 20172 votes

On the stat shield, it's because anyone can do the stoneplate and locket combo as long as they have enough health. It's not really saying tanks are needed, just health guys.

AhristocatsJun 26, 20172 votes

hm dafuq?

tanks are not needed, no class is needed in this game except marksmen which is the true bullshit

you just need a frontline no matter what it is, as long as it is a frontline and this was like this since season 1

RalanrJun 26, 20172 votes

My point being that the combo makes having a tank not as important as it could be.

You could replace Sion with Mundo and if you have a high CC support or Mage then you'd be fine.

Now granted this opens up more diverse comps, which is good. But imo it dumbs down being a tank and drastically puts your team at a disadvantage if you're playing a tank and not building those items. Which is bad.

PennsJun 26, 201712 votes

Time for Fizz item 3153 item 3087 item 3031 bot

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20172 votes

And this is how they (tank) should be. If someone wan't to "carry" (don't have any other term... even if u can carry with all champs/roles) they should play mage, fighter, slayer or marksman

Big LincolnJun 26, 20175 votes

ya fuck tanks

they only here to slave for their adc kangs

PermabannedGarenJun 26, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KHwOIqP,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-06-26T19:11:42.078+0000)

ya fuck tanks

they only here to slave for their adc kangs

They are though.

The class that tend towards having the kits strongest at team play shouldn't also have selfish self-sufficiency the way that divers, assassins, or skirmishers do.

It's why the class can be a balance problem. When tanks do get that self-sufficiency and damage, like Galio and Zac most recently or Poppy not too long ago, they are THE most dominant picks, because they essentially become champions with no drawbacks. They can snowball and carry a game with their damage while still being very useful while behind and being able to enable their team's carries.

Poppy when she was strong was a champion with no real weaknesses. Zac is one such champion right now. Even Yasuo, for all the hate he gets, only really dipped into that territory when he was abusing a zero crit tanky build he was never intended to be viable using.

But it must be said that it works the other way. League is so damage-focused early game that tanks do need the damage to trade early game or clear the jungle so they don't automatically lose lane or provide zero pressure respectively, which makes them feel awful.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20171 votes

team slave... not only adc [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Big LincolnJun 26, 20174 votes

yes massa

MrHaZeYoJun 26, 201713 votes

I've really enjoying the top laners building item 3193 item 3190 item 3109 on top of their boots and two HP tank items lol. Let me just give my entire team a 2k HP shield while I laugh and don't die.

Sahn UzalJun 26, 201725 votes

Toplane main here, I did not ask for this.

I may be a Sion player, but I like playing him in a more selfish way, this locket + knights vow stuff... If that's how I wanted to play Sion, I'd be playing him support.

crippler38Jun 26, 20176 votes

Obviously you're doing criticide sion yeah yeah?

All movespeed items, 100% crit chance, donk donk donk ded.

JaxMoonStealerJun 26, 20173 votes

What selfish way are you speaking of? Aren't tanks there to enable plays for their team and peel for them?

On the other hand, it's Sion, so I can see what you mean. That guy can actually somewhat solo carry due to his damage.

Sahn UzalJun 26, 20177 votes

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/3239730720/206845050?tab=overview

I'd like ways of being useful other than pressing Stoneplate > Locket to make my team immortal for a few seconds.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20171 votes

best build don't rush these item... i don't understand ur complain. These two items aren't good before 2 items (more in u case, cause u build hp for ur 3rd item).

RalanrJun 26, 20176 votes

We do not want to use those items to be effective. Those items however are so good that we're putting our team at a disadvantage if we don't get them.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20171 votes

We do not want to use those items to be effective.

In the end u do what u wan't. either u use best items... anyway. Even they'll nerf stoneplate, this will still be core... This item "solve" tank main issue... their late.

side not : if u downvote me... i dare u to argue to my previous statement

best build don't rush these item. These two items aren't good before 2 items.

RalanrJun 26, 20172 votes

I didn't downvote you.

And yeah, obviously you don't rush two items with no health on a tank. So? We just don't want to devote two slots to these two items, which we feel we have to because it's just a powerful combo.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20171 votes

wasn't for u^^ u posted under my post... it wasn't a shadow downvote without argument. Two slots ?? at my elo tank don't even build both. Just one item 3193 . All class are forced to build x item.

RalanrJun 26, 20172 votes

Not as much for tanks, we have several items that would commonly be in our build, but our builds are primarily counterbuilding. We don't really have a core rush item like everyone else.

And I personally just don't like stoneplate. I don't understand why anyone would focus me when I activate it.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20171 votes

I don't understand why anyone would focus me when I activate it.

I agree about this... but this is to help tank late game. Many here complained about late : feeling squishy when carry are full stuff, this item isn't for all tank btw, but for all "go in" tank (and for divers)

RalanrJun 26, 20173 votes

I play vanguards. Honestly the item isn't great on my main (Sion) mainly because the damage reduction and time limit make his engage a lot less impactful.

TwitchInMyPantsJun 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I've really enjoying the top laners building on top of their boots and two HP tank items lol. Let me just give my entire team a 2k HP shield while I laugh and don't die.

TBH I'd be ok with 1-2 of those items being viable on defensive tanks situationally, but being core and overtuned is just dumb. Like these are support items, their power should be geared mostly towards teammates. Yet there's enough bonus health from Gargoyle's for these to be more efficient than regular tank items. Pretty sad.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 27, 20172 votes

item 3193 isn't a support items.

TwitchInMyPantsJun 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KHwOIqP,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2017-06-27T00:37:45.810+0000)

isn't a support items.

No but its a healthstack item which they realized synergizes with mountain so they figured health scaling on locket would make sups real good too. Instead they just changed the tank's core builds because other tank items were really nerfed. Locket + Knight's Vow shouldn't be buyable every game on a tank, if you did that before you'd be punishable for your lack of fighting power. Instead they have such good synergy you're better at being a wall than normal. That build should be more beatable, its not a toplane build. I'd target the locket scaling or gargoyle's health buff. This is pretty much what's enabling it.

korg023Jun 26, 201711 votes

The funny thing is that after Tank update, playing Tank feels like playing support. You deal way less damage,items got nerfed over the board. It just feels bad. This is just gonna bring more damage picks in the meta and less people will play tanks overall. I think Tanks should be able to deal damage again.

JaxMoonStealerJun 26, 20175 votes

If anything, they should buff their defense.

Tanks in video games are supposed to be that: team enablers and protectors who don't deal much damage on their own. At least not in a reliable way.

RalanrJun 26, 20178 votes

Problem is that tanks are not only designed to go in the support role, at least primary tanks aren't supposed to go there. We have tanks designed for top lane and jungle, which require some level of damage to farm and trade effectively so that their lanes are interactive and their cleats aren't too slow.

The EcdysiastJun 26, 20175 votes

The issue with the tank update was that they updated 3 junglers and buffed the monster damage of Cinderhulk, but nerfed all top laner tank items and didn't update any top laners.

RalanrJun 26, 20176 votes

Yeah, they really screwed over top lane tanks.

TwitchInMyPantsJun 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Problem is that tanks are not only designed to go in the support role, at least primary tanks aren't supposed to go there. We have tanks designed for top lane and jungle, which require some level of damage to farm and trade effectively so that their lanes are interactive and their cleats aren't too slow.

Tanks have been stacking defense since S1, the whole "I need damage to solo lane/jungle" thing is newer. Not that its a bad idea, requiring damage in order to have killing power is fair on paper. Though you could often get away with something like Sunfire cape since it has some damage but is primarily defensive, things like this enabled variety in the kinds of champs you played top. ATM most tank items aren't even efficient early-mid game other than the busted support build right now. They nerfed too many resistances and made items that scale from health core.

The EcdysiastJun 26, 20172 votes

Tanks in video games in general are supposed to be enablers and protectors, yeah. In other games, you can actually force the AI to aggro onto you. Here, that only works with neutral monsters and turrets. If the enemy is afraid you'll have a tank who can block skillshots, they just don't have to pick skillshots that can be blocked.

The 3 taunts only last up to 2.5s, so the ideal goal of a video game tank is not possible in this game. So they have to focus mainly on CC to do anything of impact.

TwitchInMyPantsJun 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Tanks in video games in general are supposed to be enablers and protectors, yeah. In other games, you can actually force the AI to aggro onto you. Here, that only works with neutral monsters and turrets. If the enemy is afraid you'll have a tank who can block skillshots, they just don't have to pick skillshots that can be blocked.

The 3 taunts only last up to 2.5s, so the ideal goal of a video game tank is not possible in this game. So they have to focus mainly on CC to do anything of impact.

That's why Tanks in this game have cc. They're meant to be damage sponges and to force enemies to recognize them as a threat with decent base damage and powerful effects like stuns/silences/knockups/slows/ect that mess with your gameplay and enable enemies to fight you. That fantasy works just fine in League when the items/champs are balanced right.

ZT XperimentorJun 26, 20171 votes

Indeed, but tanks should be serious damage threats, if you let you let them. Some conditional power that makes them more than a meat shield. Such as tahm, sion, or nasus.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 26, 20173 votes

Indeed, but tanks should be serious damage threats, if you let you let them. Some conditional power that makes them more than a meat shield.

They shouldn't... what's u ask is Divers & Juggernauts role.

Tanks Tanks excel in shrugging off incoming damage and focus on disrupting their enemies more than being significant damage threats themselves.

NymzoJun 26, 20175 votes

{quoted}

The funny thing is that after Tank update, playing Tank feels like playing support. You deal way less damage,items got nerfed over the board. It just feels bad. This is just gonna bring more damage picks in the meta and less people will play tanks overall. **I think Tanks should be able to deal damage again. **

This is something I never undestand : why do you want tanks to do dmg? Most Tanks, at least in MOBA, aren't suppose to do dmg since they are suppose to take dmg.

Remember Poppy? When she was a dominant pick in top lane? People complained that she dealed too much for a tank.

Or maybe it's because of the item 3068 nerf but still. I would prefer if tanks were a living wall that packs cc for their team instead of being an actual irl tank that rollstomps everything in its path.

RalanrJun 26, 20173 votes

If the game was a giant teamfight out the gate, then you'd have a better point.

Except it isn't.

While it is a team game, the laning phase for the most part (especially in soloQ) is mostly a 1v1 experience. Yeah you have a jungler and people can roam, but that's not guaranteed like having a support in bot.

Ever fought someone who just ignored you in a game? It's not fun, and depending on the reason why they are ignoring you, it isn't fun for that guy either.

So you pretty much have to make them interactive so they don't automatically start farming under tower. Give them the ability to actually fight and win. Considering how durable top lane is compared to mid and bot, top lane tanks tend to have higher bases than support tanks (spitballing on this, but I've felt I do more damage on Sion, Poppy, Naut, than I do Braum). Squishy champions tend to suffer from these because what "hurts" a fighter can destroy a mage or marksman.

Same with the jungle. They need damage to actually clear at a viable speed, that damage is very dangerous to squishies because they are very squishy.

KoKobotoJun 26, 20175 votes

I enjoy playing tanks and being supportive. When I play Mao'Kai jungle and end games with 20k healing off of stoneborn pact I get spry.

However support items shouldn't be better in terms of tanking when compared to normal tank items. That's when we got a problem because tanks can't play as tanks anymore. It's strange because technically you still are a tank but I think they should just buff all the real tank items.

arghilostJun 26, 20174 votes

as a Nasus main I dont even queue top anymore, shit role right now. You either abuse DD riven, fiora, etc duelists top or play monster tanks like jarvan/galio/etc with the locket/gargoyle stoneplate and just play support #2 for your adc.

Absolutely terrible/unfun lane to play right now.